Striped Bass Closures in Nov and Dec

[Broad Bill]

Originally Posted by dales529

Interesting on the timing to coincide with ASMFC decision to now include Hudson Stock!

As I said, the decision has already been made. The upcoming meeting and public comments are the CYA check the box bs that accompanies every regulatory decision and this one is no different. This decision is going to be the final straw for a lot of small businesses. Hope I'm wrong but I don't think I am.

And you won't find one person involved with these agencies that says "We royally %$#&@! this up!"

[AndyS]

As I said, the decision has already been made. ---------------->

Maybe if we got on buses and marched on Washington.

[1captainron]

Originally Posted by AndyS

As I said, the decision has already been made. ---------------->

Maybe if we got on buses and marched on Washington.

Did that twice Andy......Fell on deaf ears then, it will fall on deaf ears now. Many of the busses were not full, couple guys from my harbor thought it was more important to fish that day! That was the end for me. Curious as to where is Frank Pallone the career politician? Crickets.

[dales529]

Originally Posted by 1captainron

Did that twice Andy......Fell on deaf ears then, it will fall on deaf ears now. Many of the busses were not full, couple guys from my harbor thought it was more important to fish that day! That was the end for me. Curious as to where is Frank Pallone the career politician? Crickets.

Capt Ron
Same can be said for Chris Smith, Jeff Van Drew, Josh Gottheimer plus then Gov Christie and now Murphy All career politicians yet Crickets

[dales529]

Originally Posted by AndyS

As I said, the decision has already been made. ---------------->

Maybe if we got on buses and marched on Washington.

Not sure how that comment helps? Do you have a better idea and if so please share as i went there twice like Capt Ron / not sure I saw you? While all you do for freshwater is admirable all you do on SW is be negative with one line statements that do more harm than good and minimize the effort of others trying to make a difference so with all due respect if you have nothing to offer on the SW side please stick to what you best.

Again I respect your efforts on the FW side of fishing!

[Broad Bill]

Originally Posted by dales529

Not sure how that comment helps? Do you have a better idea and if so please share as i went there twice like Capt Ron / not sure I saw you? While all you do for freshwater is admirable all you do on SW is be negative with one line statements that do more harm than good and minimize the effort of others trying to make a difference so with all due respect if you have nothing to offer on the SW side please stick to what you best.

Again I respect your efforts on the FW side of fishing!

Dave, Andy was replying to my comment "the decisions already been made" so I deserve some of the angst from your reply which I take responsibility for. The buses and Washington are Andy's words.

Should people not send in comments or attend the meeting? I'm wasn't saying or implying that. After seven years trying and one door after another slammed in my face, even in certain cases by "recreational leadership", it's difficult staying positive. And with today's economic climate, fishery decisions prospectively will be made even more based on economic impact. The problem as I see it is the recreational communities impact on the economy isn't viewed equally or for the same reasons the commercial sector is. The federal government in my opinion believes recreational anglers will spend money and fish regardless of how much they catch or can retain, and to some degree they're correct. Commercial on the other hand needs "harvest" in order to create "catch value", their contribution to the economic benefits of the sector and that's where the problem starts. I think the government is completely underestimating the impact to the economy and social impacts if recreational fishing one day goes away or becomes a shadow of what it's been for decades.

My frustration, like most, is I don't think anyone in Washington gives a shit and I don't think any one or handful of politicians will change the process or views of the bureaucrats in Washington. The Department of Commerce and NMFS won't change their ideologies or focus and certainly won't admit they've been and still are wrong with these regulations. That's why I have so much disdain for Michael Waine and ASA. We, meaning you, me and Dan along with a dozen or so others, presented them with issues they said they'd take to the Hill and as far as I know it was all BS and they didn't do a dam thing. Waine said to me leaving that meeting "you need to be more diplomatic in your approach" meaning be more respectful in my correspondence. Management incompetency and too much diplomacy is what got us here. As I said, when the commercial sector has a problem, they sue and usually win. Maybe that's because the Dept. of Commerce values them more, don't know. Recreational has a problem, we complain and say thank you sir may I have another. I know all we have is our voice but truly don't know what the answer is other than it's probably going to take a whole lot more radical approach than signing petitions and attending meetings. Doesn't mean we shouldn't utilize what's available, I've just lost hope those same approaches which haven't worked in past will for some reason cause change today.

Economic impact statistics from NOAA:

Sales impact: $321 billion
Jobs supported: 2.3 million
Commercial sales: $183 billion
Recreational sales: $138 billion
Source: NOAA Fisheries

In my humble opinion, this is the primary reason why the recreational sector gets the short end of the stick religiously and why catch decisions tend to favor the commercial sector. That and the fact mentioned earlier which is Washington views our impact based on how many days we fish, not on how many fish we harvest since we don't sell our catch. As a matter of fact, the more we catch the less we'll buy retail so it's in their best interest to limit catch to our sector. Fair and Equitable allocation of resources as mandated by MSA, it's just a slogan and not how sectors are really being regulated.

To Capt Ron's point, in my opinion NMFS wants recreational anglers on the water spending their hard earned money, what they don't want is the sector harvesting our proportionate share of the resource. It's a problem which will impact sector regulations and the overall health of stocks until management moves from the Department of Commerce back to the Department of the Interior where it belongs which with the amount of money involved will most likely never happen.

Just my two cents.

[bunker dunker]

we need more "common sense and less dollar and sense".we need to flush the toilet and clear the offices of those who are making the marine decisions.i feel like the bird and glass door.should we have to have this conversation every season????should we have to have this conversation about every fish???i may be a bit older but man this has been going on forever.this is like a bad movie that the they keep making sequels for.i hate to say this but with this constant parade
of bs,golf is looking better and better.

[AndyS]

Maybe I'm just being a realist here but looking back over the last 20 years:

Bluefish-CUT
Yellowfin tuna-CUT
Ocean Pout-CUT
Striped Bass-CUT
Blackfish-CUT
Atlantic Herring-CUT
American Shad-CUT
Mako shark-CUT
Black Sea Bass-CUT
Weakfish-CUT
Winter Flounder-CUT
Golden and Blueline Tilefish-CUT
Bluefin tuna-CUT
Mackerel and Whiting- ?
Fluke- annual shell game

Hard to stay positive with this track record.

[Gerry Zagorski]

Originally Posted by AndyS

Maybe I'm just being a realist here but looking back over the last 20 years:

Bluefish-CUT
Yellowfin tuna-CUT
Ocean Pout-CUT
Striped Bass-CUT
Blackfish-CUT
Atlantic Herring-CUT
American Shad-CUT
Mako shark-CUT
Black Sea Bass-CUT
Weakfish-CUT
Winter Flounder-CUT
Golden and Bluefin Tilefish-CUT
Mackerel and Whiting- ?
Fluke- annual shell game

Hard to stay positive with this track record.

They have a track record for screwing up every fishery they manage. If you and me were in these positions we'd be fired.