2024 and 2025 Fluke Options Poll

[Gerry Zagorski]

Sorry everyone but I screwed up AGAIN. Some of the dates on my initial poll were not correct and it could have changed the way you voted so we're going to start over and ask you to vote again....

These are the correct options the state will be submitting to the ASMFC that are expected to be approved. If they are approved, the state will be looking for public comments on them.

One very important thing this year that is different from past years, these regulations will be in place for 2 years.

Please take the poll and if you'd like, feel free to comment about the option you chose, why and please, lets try and keep politics out of it.

Further, if you really want your voice to be heard don't stop here, be sure to submit your comments during the formal comment period. I'll be sure to let you know when that is and how to go about it here.

I would also strongly suggest making your voice heard in the official meeting on 3/7 when the final regulations will be decided.

Please feel free to share this post by copying this link https://www.njfishing.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=122433 and pasting it on to social sites or emailing it to other groups or organizations you belong to.

[Angler Paul]

JCAA voted unanimously to support the option with 3 fluke at 18". That gives us the longest season on both ends. It also closes the gap in the fall between when fluke season ends and sea bass season begins.

[cool hand fluke]

Agree Paul. And September was phenomenal fluking in 2023.

[hammer4reel]

I like the long season with 3 over 18” also .

But wouldn’t mind losing the 16 days (14 which are too early Oceanside anyhow) to allow the 17” fish caught from the surf state wide .

I think that allows non boaters to get in on the fun also .
And take something home for dinner

[Broad Bill]

Here's the irony of a brutal process. In 2021, regs were 3 fish at 18" and a 121 day season. That didn't work, so we switched to the regs of the last 2 years with two paper thin slots between 17" and 18" and one fish over 18" with a season length of 149 days. Still a 3 fish bag limit. That didn't work leading to a supposed 28% reduction in quota. So now the solution is to revert back to the regulations that didn't work in 2021 of three fish at 18 but instead of 149 days we're dropping it by a whopping four days to 145 and believe essentially the same regulations that didn't work in 2021 will now miraculously work in 2024 and 2025 and lead to an almost 30% reduction in quota.

Everyone wants longer season which many have said on this site will be used against the sector in future regulations because it increases fishing effort and mortality. Others have said they don't want short seasons because once you give in to a short season you'll never get those days back. That's the dilemma of regulations and why we live through these discussions every year and nothing changes because not one thing about any of this focuses on issues impacting the stock. In 2018, we said enough is enough and doing the same thing over and over again with the same or worse results is the definition of insanity. That's exactly what we're doing again by reverting back to 2021 regulations which didn't work then and now we're expected to believe will work over the next two years. Why?

Continue killing breeders and sexually mature fish, get penalized in landings and mortality rates associated with longer seasons while commercial fisheries continue to mop up the ocean targeting the breeding population and killing tens of millions of juvenile fish in the process. All management is doing is reshuffling the deck and there'll be a day when this philosophy catches up with them, us and the fishery. We're almost there now. No one likes doom and gloom predictions but continuing to use the same regulations that failed the fishery in past years makes sense why?

When the green hulled boat was having historic trips working a concentrated school in the fall last year until it got too far offshore, how many of the fish in those schools are going to get whipped out when the commercials find them before they have an opportunity to drop their eggs. Target breeders both recreationally and commercially, kill tens of millions of juveniles in the process and commercially pound the stock during the spawn, truthfully who cares what the regulations end up being. Our government and the regulatory bodies in charge of managing this stock have turned their back on the recreational angler and this fishery so choosing which bread crumbs option we want doesn't seem a priority when the stock is being mismanaged into the ground.

[hammer4reel]

Originally Posted by Broad Bill

Here's the irony of a brutal process. In 2021, regs were 3 fish at 18" and a 121 day season. That didn't work, so we switched to the regs of the last 2 years with two paper thin slots between 17" and 18" and one fish over 18" with a season length of 149 days. Still a 3 fish bag limit. That didn't work leading to a supposed 28% reduction in quota. So now the solution is to revert back to the regulations that didn't work in 2021 of three fish at 18 but instead of 149 days we're dropping it by a whopping four days to 145 and believe essentially the same regulations that didn't work in 2021 will now miraculously work in 2024 and 2025 and lead to an almost 30% reduction in quota.

Everyone wants longer season which many have said on this site will be used against the sector in future regulations because it increases fishing effort and mortality. Others have said they don't want short seasons because once you give in to a short season you'll never get those days back. That's the dilemma of regulations and why we live through these discussions every year and nothing changes because not one thing about any of this focuses on issues impacting the stock. In 2018, we said enough is enough and doing the same thing over and over again with the same or worse results is the definition of insanity. That's exactly what we're doing again by reverting back to 2021 regulations which didn't work then and now we're expected to believe will work over the next two years. Why?

Continue killing breeders and sexually mature fish, get penalized in landings and mortality rates associated with longer seasons while commercial fisheries continue to mop up the ocean targeting the breeding population and killing tens of millions of juvenile fish in the process. All management is doing is reshuffling the deck and there'll be a day when this philosophy catches up with them, us and the fishery. We're almost there now. No one likes doom and gloom predictions but continuing to use the same regulations that failed the fishery in past years makes sense why?

When the green hulled boat was having historic trips working a concentrated school in the fall last year until it got too far offshore, how many of the fish in those schools are going to get whipped out when the commercials find them before they have an opportunity to drop their eggs. Target breeders both recreationally and commercially, kill tens of millions of juveniles in the process and commercially pound the stock during the spawn, truthfully who cares what the regulations end up being. Our government and the regulatory bodies in charge of managing this stock have turned their back on the recreational angler and this fishery so choosing which bread crumbs option we want doesn't seem a priority when the stock is being mismanaged into the ground.

All these states are making regulations based on the states fisheries .
Yet the NC boats having quotas 5 to 10 times larger than any of them are also fishing just outside the 3 mile line are crushing every state north of them too .

IMO those boats being told to go anywhere they want are doing way more damage than we are .
.
Unless changes are made to that fishery , nothing we do will change anything .
..
We had plenty of fish smaller than 18” on the fillet table the last 2 seasons . We may have had 3 that weren’t females .
.
Knowing people who actually worked on the sexting studies , males and females were not normally together .

.

[No Keepers]

Originally Posted by Broad Bill

Here's the irony of a brutal process. In 2021, regs were 3 fish at 18" and a 121 day season. That didn't work, so we switched to the regs of the last 2 years with two paper thin slots between 17" and 18" and one fish over 18" with a season length of 149 days. Still a 3 fish bag limit. That didn't work leading to a supposed 28% reduction in quota. So now the solution is to revert back to the regulations that didn't work in 2021 of three fish at 18 but instead of 149 days we're dropping it by a whopping four days to 145 and believe essentially the same regulations that didn't work in 2021 will now miraculously work in 2024 and 2025 and lead to an almost 30% reduction in quota.

Everyone wants longer season which many have said on this site will be used against the sector in future regulations because it increases fishing effort and mortality. Others have said they don't want short seasons because once you give in to a short season you'll never get those days back. That's the dilemma of regulations and why we live through these discussions every year and nothing changes because not one thing about any of this focuses on issues impacting the stock. In 2018, we said enough is enough and doing the same thing over and over again with the same or worse results is the definition of insanity. That's exactly what we're doing again by reverting back to 2021 regulations which didn't work then and now we're expected to believe will work over the next two years. Why?

Continue killing breeders and sexually mature fish, get penalized in landings and mortality rates associated with longer seasons while commercial fisheries continue to mop up the ocean targeting the breeding population and killing tens of millions of juvenile fish in the process. All management is doing is reshuffling the deck and there'll be a day when this philosophy catches up with them, us and the fishery. We're almost there now. No one likes doom and gloom predictions but continuing to use the same regulations that failed the fishery in past years makes sense why?

When the green hulled boat was having historic trips working a concentrated school in the fall last year until it got too far offshore, how many of the fish in those schools are going to get whipped out when the commercials find them before they have an opportunity to drop their eggs. Target breeders both recreationally and commercially, kill tens of millions of juveniles in the process and commercially pound the stock during the spawn, truthfully who cares what the regulations end up being. Our government and the regulatory bodies in charge of managing this stock have turned their back on the recreational angler and this fishery so choosing which bread crumbs option we want doesn't seem a priority when the stock is being mismanaged into the ground.

Well said. If we are going to rebuild this fishery we need to stop targeting the breeders', increase recruitment as well as eliminate all harvesting during the spawn.

New Jersey made advancements with the introduction of a slot fish (although to tight of a slot). These efforts should the refined and strengthen. Not abandoned only to return to failed regulations of the past. It reminds me of Einstein's definition of insanity also.

[hammer4reel]

Originally Posted by No Keepers

Well said. If we are going to rebuild this fishery we need to stop targeting the breeders', increase recruitment as well as eliminate all harvesting during the spawn.

New Jersey made advancements with the introduction of a slot fish (although to tight of a slot). These efforts should the refined and strengthen. Not abandoned only to return to failed regulations of the past. It reminds me of Einstein's definition of insanity also.

IMO thinking us throwing back fish larger than 18” only to have commercial draggers net them the same week is just as insane .

They are allowing NC boats much of the year 30000 pounds a week per boat .
Those boats destroyed the NC fishery , and now target their quota as far away as Massachusetts.

That doesn’t account for all the NJ boats targeting their weekly catch . Including when fish really stack up heading to spawn .

The only way recreational fisherman can make a change is in fisheries were we are the only ones fishing for the species .

The slot fish in NJ did not do anything but increase our poundage by adding increases mortality .

Guys need to look at the entire picture , not just a piece of it .

Start watching fish get filleted EVERY trip . See how many of the fish under 18” are still female fish , who just also did not get to spawn .

If they claim the biggest biomass of fish is under 18”
Letting them breed an extra year should also be beneficial.

While larger fluke will have more eggs , it’s claimed older fish carry eggs that are not as fertile .

It’s time for NMFS to start getting better info and work on what’s really the problem .

.

[hammer4reel]

NC commercial boats have pounded these fluke so hard the last month it’s dropped their live weight catch down to 60 cents a pound .
And sea bass down to 1.50 a pound .
Last summer they were getting over 4.50 a pound .

That should really shed some light on what’s really happening to the fisheries .
.

[reason162]

Originally Posted by hammer4reel

See how many of the fish under 18” are still female fish , who just also did not get to spawn .

If they claim the biggest biomass of fish is under 18”
Letting them breed an extra year should also be beneficial.

That's a point people seem not to understand - lowering size limits doesn't automatically mean harvesting more males. You could just as easily be killing females without giving them a chance to spawn.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think fluke generally start spawning at 16"? If so 18" gives them a couple of cycles.