Where the bay stripers went last year! Must read!!

[Slacker]

Originally Posted by Capt Sal Cathy Sea Charters

i agree that stripers are a game fish.1 bass per day works for some people.i eat mine fresh so one fish is enough.now here is the problem.if the bass are 28 to30inches and i have a charter what do i do.how many charters can i book with a bag limit of 1?how about all of the party boats that make a living with school size stripers.the agenda of stripers forever in no way reflects the needs or the reality of the for hire industry.we do not need to harvest millions of bass but we need a reasonable bag limit to stay in bussines.

I hear your concerns, Capt. I'm not in the business, so I will defer to your opinion on this question... "Would telling a 6 pack charter that they can only keep 6 bass significantly cut down on your bookings?".

Ultimately, the question is as a recreational captain, could you make more money if this fish is treated as a trophy or as a meat fish. For a 6 pack charter operation, with tighter limits, I think you'd have a better chance of getting fares into 35-36" fish day in and day out, rather than the current drill of relatively small fish.

Personally, I think you'd get more charters if bigger fish were a more realistic possibility. People drop $400-500 for the experience, the feel and sound of a big fish pulling drag, the trophy photo, etc... not for 4 fillets of a marginal tasting fish.

A friend of mine runs charters in Montauk. Doesn't keep a fish all Fall and is booked every day.

Party boats are a thornier issue. They can't be as flexible as a 6 pack in where and how they fish for bass. They have been forced to treat bass like meat fish due to getting regularly hosed on flounder, fluke, seabass, porgies, etc. The bass season gets longer and longer because the fluke season gets shorter and shorter. I don't want to put them out of business with regulations... I also don't want to see them put out of business because the bottom falls out of the fishery.

[mitch]

I haven't posted in awhile but do read almost everyday. My 2 cents is yes many not just illegals, are fishing and keeping though not sure how anyone can know each person fishing from public piers and docks are not legal citizens, many of us do at one time or another, my wife works in Hoboken and she as well as I walk the new park/pier their and do see many who fish that spot, many old timers many regulars, and many who yes keep small fish, I can guarrentee they all are not illegals as thought! But the police are always around and I'm sure the state knows about these waterfront fishing holes. I can attest to more short fish are being taken from private boats then private people off the shores, wish I had a nickle for everytime we were given the "salute" for yelling at somebody throwing a baby into the cooler!
I personally would like to see the slot bass come back the smaller bass are by far the better tasting, a 26" or 28" is nicer meat than a 34" or 40" by far, better taste better quality. And the bigger breeders are getting few and far between more because "I think" they are smarter than the smaller fish and realize, why keep going back to the spot we're harrassed each year, so I think they just find different, safer, quieter habitats to live and breed, a.k.a. why the upper Hudson is seeing less and less right?.
Give us the 2 slot size again and maybe the bonus tag fish could be a 30" or 34"+ instead of just a 3rd fish. That may cover both sides of the issue maybe?.
As for loosing customers, yes it's location, location, location, Montouge will always have that fan base just like here in Jersey, if you want say Bluefish you'll go to shark river or Pt. P not A.H. though they all go to the same basic spots, that's just how it is. The same as even getting down to what type of fishing you want will depend on what boat you go on, back bay verses channel fishing, and so on. Bottom line the economy weather anyone wants to admit it or not has hurt all aspects of our lives, many more than the lucky few, God bless those few. A good day for us and the PB Capts use to be 50-60 fares, the last couple years, now 20-30 fares the Capts are you know what in their you know whats!
We all have to give and bend and stand up for our rights or else all of our boats will look like those NY PB as 2 days a week out with 5-6 fares on a 90ft boat! that is a sin!!!
We all must do our part or nobody will be around! store owners, gas stations, rental owners, nobody, do we want to look like Sheepshead bay?? or some of these other towns? Yes we feel it because we live in Jersey but it's all over and fishing will become a thing of the past for most of us as did sports and seeing games live. I use to have season tickets for the Mets (in '86), i'd have to sell my house for 1 season of my old seats now.
It's not an easy fight but we do have to adjust somewhere in the middle or we all will loose!

[Capt Sal]

Originally Posted by Slacker

I hear your concerns, Capt. I'm not in the business, so I will defer to your opinion on this question... "Would telling a 6 pack charter that they can only keep 6 bass significantly cut down on your bookings?".

Ultimately, the question is as a recreational captain, could you make more money if this fish is treated as a trophy or as a meat fish. For a 6 pack charter operation, with tighter limits, I think you'd have a better chance of getting fares into 35-36" fish day in and day out, rather than the current drill of relatively small fish.

Personally, I think you'd get more charters if bigger fish were a more realistic possibility. People drop $400-500 for the experience, the feel and sound of a big fish pulling drag, the trophy photo, etc... not for 4 fillets of a marginal tasting fish.

A friend of mine runs charters in Montauk. Doesn't keep a fish all Fall and is booked every day.

Party boats are a thornier issue. They can't be as flexible as a 6 pack in where and how they fish for bass. They have been forced to treat bass like meat fish due to getting regularly hosed on flounder, fluke, seabass, porgies, etc. The bass season gets longer and longer because the fluke season gets shorter and shorter. I don't want to put them out of business with regulations... I also don't want to see them put out of business because the bottom falls out of the fishery.

i don't know what you you do for a living.i know what i do.i could care less what 1 charter boat out of montauk does.i know what works here and every other state on the east coast that has a striper run.stick to what you do and leave the for hire industry to us capts.i think i said that as politely as i can.

[Tony Cav]

Unfortunately, to talk about catch and release mortality will only give the tree huggers ammo.



Aren't stripers already listed as a "Game Fish" in New Jersey?

[eagleyankfan]

I agree, stripers should be a game fish to stop the comms from killing them at an alarming rate. The side affect of that will be a limit on rec fisherman. All that aside ....

that IS not the reason there were fewer fish in the bay. It's a nice idea to tie the two together, but its not accurate.

[Fishguts]

Originally Posted by Slacker

I doubt that illegal immigrants are putting a massive dent in the population... not having access to boats limits their catch. On the rec side, years of killing 30-50# breeders is where the big damage happens - most guys catching those are fully legal and well equipped.

Stripers Forever agenda is just fine with me. Stripers are simply too valuable a resource to be a commercial food fish... commercial guys should find a market for sea robins and feel free to take all the pout you want.

On the rec side, there is absolutely no reason anybody needs to keep more than 1 bass a day. Putting the 36" minimum back up would help regain a little of the fish's mystique... we've managed them like they are panfish.

I feel bad that folks think a 28" fish is a STRIPED BASS... you haven't really experienced what it feels like to catch a striper until you've broke 40"s.

How would you feel if people started saying the same statements about fluke ,blacks or seabass? 1 ten pound fluke is plenty, them little 22inchers hardly stretch the line.........Put a 19" size limit on seabass so it has some mystique....... dont keep a blackfish just give it a nice hug and take a picture Maximum sustainable yield should be the goal. Take what can be harvested and protect what can not. I feel bad that there are groups out there that want to take away my rights to harvest fish for no real reason (mortality,stock assessments,etc ) other than their personal preferences.

[Slacker]

Originally Posted by Fishguts

How would you feel if people started saying the same statements about fluke ,blacks or seabass? 1 ten pound fluke is plenty, them little 22inchers hardly stretch the line.........Put a 19" size limit on seabass so it has some mystique....... dont keep a blackfish just give it a nice hug and take a picture Maximum sustainable yield should be the goal. Take what can be harvested and protect what can not. I feel bad that there are groups out there that want to take away my rights to harvest fish for no real reason (mortality,stock assessments,etc ) other than their personal preferences.

Fluke and seabass have always been panfish. I do think that the fluke fishery has actually improved drastically under the increased regs, however.

WRT blackfish, I fish those a lot and have watched the stock quality decrease. I would be more than happy to see size limits bounced up to 16 or 17" and quantity kept at 4... slot limit would also get applause from me.

Again, I have no financial stake in the game... which makes me different from a charter/party boat operation. My interest is quality of the fishery.

[irishc]

Originally Posted by SI Cruiser

I normally report under a different user name but in this situation I need to report under a different name.

If you want to know where all the Hudson River Stripers went I can tell you.

All the illegal immigrants in Jersey City take home every 14 to 28 inch striper they catch.

Will they ever sign up with NOAA? No
Will they ever abide by any law in the country? No
Will they ever learn to speak English? No

Also, do not trust Stripers Forever. They are a bunch of treehuggers looking to shut down the recreational fisherman. They will rip apart the commercial guys and try to come across as a friend to the recreational guy all on behalf of the striper. Just beware they want to make it a gamefish and limit recreational catches to just one fish.


Enough said!

Talk about opinnions that become truths... SI Criuser, I don't know about illegals in Jersey City but your comment about Stripers Forever, a group of which I am a member, got me thinking so I emailed the powers that be and here is what they had to say:

Chris - I don't know who is making these comments, but we definitely have our opponents and they come from all corners. Some clubs or groups simply resent anyone but them having an organized voice, some of the national organizations see us as competition, and naturally pro commercial voices hate us. Stripers Forever has about 17,000 members from all kinds of fishing disciplines, and from every state in the U.S. plus several foreign countries. We have no paid staff. We are a totally volunteer organization - though we do hire lobbyists - designed to do one thing, and that is make striped bass a game fish and end its commercial exploitation. We think that is the best way to insure that stripers thrive and provide great recreational fishing opportunities.

Our organization does not suggest particular bag or size limits, and frankly while I know that there is something going on with new size limits in NJ - one larger and one smaller, maybee - we have no position on it of any kind, and in fact we don't even know the details. We have several board members from NJ, and they may know, but it is not a topic at Stripers Forever. NJ is a game fish state and they are free to adapt whatever regulations fit within the ASMFC guidelines.


There may be some of us who are tree huggers, but I don't' know any. Most of our board - that sets our policies - are lovers of the natural world, but are not PETA types or people with unreasonable environmental positions. Most of us are just simply life long sportsmen who just happen to believe that striped bass should be managed for the more socially and economically valuable goals of recreational fishing than for $2.50 a pound. Brad

I don't know but Brad who is I believe the head of the entire 17,000 member organization dosen't sound like a tree hugger who is out to get the recreational fisherman to me...

[Capt Sal]

why don't your board members know what the proposals are?1700 members one of them must have some info.i know your club is not a pro commercial organization!just where does stripers forever stand on bag limits?they must have an opinion.if you guys don't have an opinion why have a club.the charter and head boats need a reasonable bag limit of at least 2 fish per angler.maybe you should get your president to post the views of your members on this site.like you stated ''you'' don't know.let someone that knows and cares and maybe more people will have a better idea what stripers forever is all about.it might make for some interesting conversation.i does not have to be ugly just truthful!!! impo

[irishc]

Originally Posted by Capt Sal Cathy Sea Charters

why don't your board members know what the proposals are?1700 members one of them must have some info.i know your club is not a pro commercial organization!just where does stripers forever stand on bag limits?they must have an opinion.if you guys don't have an opinion why have a club.the charter and head boats need a reasonable bag limit of at least 2 fish per angler.maybe you should get your president to post the views of your members on this site.like you stated ''you'' don't know.let someone that knows and cares and maybe more people will have a better idea what stripers forever is all about.it might make for some interesting conversation.i does not have to be ugly just truthful!!! impo

I think Brad laid out where Stripers Forever stands very clearly in the email he sent me. Stripers Forever’s stance is that the resource should not be wasted and that the fishery should foster economic growth that goes beyond being able to buy Striped Bass in a fish market. Brad is not talking about the proposals, He is saying that he doesn’t know if the current regulations will be actually be changed in the future or what they will be changed to, do you? Thing is, I just don’t understand how anyone can start bad mouthing that organization when they had a major part in getting game fish status for Striped Bass in NJ which was a big win for recreational angler’s & charter boat & party boat captains. The quota that would have gone to the commercial fishermen (something like 320,000 lbs.) has been assigned to the bonus tag program for recreational fishermen (aka – your customers). That means your fares can keep more fish and that’s good for your business.