cut next year's summer flounder catch by 10 percent

[shrimpman steve]

right wrong or indifferent, I must thank Adam for all the time he puts into this. it is what I call a "thankless job". you can never please everyone, but I am sure his intentions are to keep us fishing.

[JIMMY L]

Originally Posted by Inishmore3

The frustration is that the RFA supported the 2012 regulations when it seems most of the folks do not. The people send their money to the RFA because they are told the RFA is the voice of the people.

The other frustration I think the folks are having is the RFA tells you if it was not for us, things would be worse. When the government closed sea bass on October 4, 2009, what was worse than that? Again, what was worse than that? And don't tell the people well, it got better. I am talking about that day. October 4, 2009. We had a sudden closure of sea bass and fluke had been closed for some time.

2013 seems like another reduction for fluke. Maybe the RFA could tell the people what the action plan is to fight this. How will the RFA use the people's funds to combat the impending 2013 fluke situation? People send you checks and go on fishing trips that donate to RFA. I think you owe the people an explination on how you will combat this impending situation. And who knows, maybe it can be a win. Maybe a loss. But at least tell the people where their money is going to combat this and other reduced fishery seasons. You owe it to the people who donate to the RFA.


I don't think the other gentleman is trying to fight you, I think he is just so frustrated with these threats from the government about reduced season and such while at the same time the RFA asks for money to keep America fishing.

I am not trying to fight you either, I am just trying to stop the current fight. I think all the people are asking is come clean with what their money is being used for.

Don't expect the RFA to worry too much about our fluke problems.Right now they are(along with the commercial fleet) preparing to spend your money endorsing their wealthy friend Mitt.

[CaptTB]

Originally Posted by Inishmore3

The frustration is that the RFA supported the 2012 regulations when it seems most of the folks do not.

Wrong. The RFA NJ Chapter did not take a position on the 2012 regulations. There was even an entire thread about the 2012 regs on this very site where that was pointed out numerous times and even discussed. Please, let's stick to the FACTS.

The other frustration I think the folks are having is the RFA tells you if it was not for us, things would be worse. When the government closed sea bass on October 4, 2009, what was worse than that?

Gotcha, so when something bad happens that automatically negates any good that has been done right? So sick of you people with the "What have you done for me lately" attitude as if nothing is being fought or done just because something does not go the way YOU think it should.

Get a clue.

And don't tell the people well, it got better. I am talking about that day. October 4, 2009. We had a sudden closure of sea bass and fluke had been closed for some time.

Right, so the feds closed a fishery suddenly, so that is the RFA's fault. Gimme a break. What exactly did you do about it? I know for a fact you did not do a ****ing thing. The simple fact is that some things can be dealt with proactively but when the feds act unilaterally then those issues have to dealt with re-actively(is that even a word?), it is called life, welcome to it. No one, no organization nor group of people has control over an emergency closure, that is why it is called an emergency. N one but the feds have access to the landings data as it is collected, so no one but they can see what is coming or what the data says is coming. My 15 year old understands this, perhaps I should have him come on here and explain it to you. That is one of the dumbest comments I have ever read, and that is really saying something.

2013 seems like another reduction for fluke. Maybe the RFA could tell the people what the action plan is to fight this. How will the RFA use the people's funds to combat the impending 2013 fluke situation? People send you checks and go on fishing trips that donate to RFA. I think you owe the people an explination on how you will combat this impending situation. And who knows, maybe it can be a win. Maybe a loss. But at least tell the people where their money is going to combat this and other reduced fishery seasons. You owe it to the people who donate to the RFA.

So pick up the phone and ask the questions and you will get an answer. You talk as if there is some big secret but that is a lie and you know it. Both the chapters and National are only a phone call or e-mail away, try it before you come onto a website and spout off on topics of which you obviously have little knowledge.

By the way, I neither work for nor get paid by nor have any connection to the RFA other than I am a dues paying member.

I am not trying to fight you either, I am just trying to stop the current fight. I think all the people are asking is come clean with what their money is being used for.

Come clean?? THAT is a direct accusation that there is something being hidden or dirty. Do you even understand how the RFA works? How any 501 works? If you wish to know what is being done with the money go to the websites, read the newsletter, pick up a phone, hell request their financials, IT IS PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE.

This guy is a joke. Adam, I wouldn't give this guy the time of day if I were you, he obviously has an agenda and is flat out full of shit when he says in one breath he is "not trying to fight you" and in the other says the RFA needs to "come clean" with what is being done with the money.

Tool.

[CaptTB]

Originally Posted by toghead

Don't expect the RFA to worry too much about our fluke problems.Right now they are(along with the commercial fleet) preparing to spend your money endorsing their wealthy friend Mitt.

Sure, because the RFA only does one thing at a time.

First off, RFA National through the PAC deals with political campaigning. RFA and SSFFF and a host of other groups have been dealing with Fluke constantly for years. Sorry if it is not fast enough or working the way you wish it would, but the fact remains that the work has never stopped, just the support from people like you.

[bunker dunker]

this going back and forth is really not helping us at all.we need to find out why they want the reduction and by what data is being used to back it.there are allot of peeps from this site that really worked there butts off for the rec guys.lets stick together and get some answers.capt tb is right,change dose take time.

[Angler Paul]

JCAA is continuously working on issues such as this. For those who may be interested JCAA has a monthly meeting that a representative from each member club may attend. For an issue such as fluke regulations any representative may make a motion to support any particular option. Each club that has a representative present may vote on the motion and if it passes that is the position the JCAA will support. This year the vast majority of our clubs voted to support the 18" size limit, 8 fish bag limit and longer season. There are no hard feelings towards clubs that prefered a different option and in fact they were encouraged to voice their opinions at public hearings. This year I spoke on behalf of the Berkeley Striper Club and JCAA at various advisor's meetings and public hearings. Below are the points I made in regard to the fluke reguations this year. Unfortunately, the NJMFC did not choose this option. We need more fishermen to get involved so please consider joining a club, the JCAA or any other organization that takes an active role in supporting recreational fishermen.

Paul Haertel
2nd VP JCAA

Eleven Reasons to support the fluke option that will allow us to fish for fluke from May 5th – October 21st with an 18” size limit and a bag limit of 8 fish.
by Paul Haertel

1.) Having a longer season is most beneficial for our various fisheries. When the fluke season is closed many fishermen are forced to target other species. On the front end of the season when the fluke season is closed, I see party and charter boats that rarely used to fish for stripers now fishing for them on a daily basis. At times they absolutely hammer them and stripers cannot sustain this type of pressure for too much longer. Then on the back end of the season when fluke season is closed and particularly when blackfish and sea bass seasons are also closed, many boats are fishing offshore wrecks, targeting cod and pollock, two species that are just starting to make a nice comeback. Again, it is doubtful that these species can withstand this added pressure. We urge you to consider the effects that a shorter season for one species may have on other species.

2.) It is imperative that we have a fluke season that will extend well into October because the other species that we normally fish for then will be closed. More specifically, blackfish will be closed from 9/1 to 10/17. Then from 10/18 to 11/15 we will only be able to keep one blackfish. Compounding the issue further it the fact that fishing for sea bass is expected to be closed from 10/15 to 11/1. In recent years stripers have not been arriving in force until November so if the fluke season is not open into late October there will be virtually nothing for surfcasters and inshore fishermen to fish for. If there is nothing to fish for in our state at that time, some of us will fish in others states or not fish at all. It is particularly important for surfcasters to be able to fish for fluke late into the fall as many of us believe that our best chance of catching a couple keepers occurs during the fall mullet run. The Governor’s Cup Fishing Tournament is in October. This tournament usually attracts approximately 1000 fishermen who pay $25. each to enter. The proceeds go towards important issues such as providing how to fish seminars, kids fishing events and purchasing special handicapped wheel chairs that are capable of riding on the beach. It is sad that in most recent years, fluke had to be removed from the tournament due to the season being closed and now for the first time since its inception blackfish will not be eligible because the season is closed.


3.) The fall is a time when many of those who target doormats have a good chance at success. The big fish have fattened up over the summer and are on the feed as they stop at wrecks and rough spots as they migrate offshore. As is the case with surf fishermen, this traditional fishery has been taken away from the trophy fishermen for a number of years.

4.) Keeping the size limit and bag limits consistent from year to year will result in more accurate statistics. We have been fighting for better fisheries science and this is one way that will help.

5.) Keeping the size and bag limits the same is better for law enforcement. Changing size
and bag limits virtually every year confuses many of the more casual fishermen. Our conservation officers end up spending a lot of time explaining the new regulations to those individuals. Our C.O.s try to be fair with everyone which is why they take the time to do this. However, with the limited number of C.O.s that we have it would be better if they had more time to track down poachers and other violators rather than having to take the time to explain new regulations.

6.) A longer season is better for the economy simply because it gives everyone regardless of whether they are surfcasters, private boaters or charter boat fishermen more days to fish. For example consider the impact it might have on tackle stores, who cater to surf fishermen, if their customers are left with nothing to fish for in October.

7.) Weather is more of a factor when the seasons are shorter. A sustained period of bad weather can be disastrous during a shortened season. A longer season provides everyone with more of an opportunity to reschedule trips that had been cancelled due to bad weather.

8.) Higher bag limits are better. Dropping the bag limit to 5 fluke might hurt participation somewhat. People spend a great deal of money for gas, bait and tackle. Though the days where people catch their limits of 8 might be infrequent, many realize that after a number of slow days they might have a really good day when they do in fact limit out. Also, once the bag limit is dropped it becomes difficult to raise it again in the future.

9.) A 17 ½” – 18” fluke is really hard to catch. I was out on the water many days last year and in fact logged in 182 trips for the NJ anglers survey. I might have caught 5 or 6 fluke between 17 ½” and 18” the entire season. I would much rather be able to keep 8 larger fluke on good days rather than keeping a few extra small ones during the season. In reality there are a lot of short fluke around but there are not too many in the 17 ½” – 18” range, rather it is public perception that there are. Many fishermen return home from a fishing trip and might honestly believe that the bulk of their shorts were 17 1/2” to 18” but in actuality many were much smaller. I guarantee you if we drop the size limit to 17 ½” then these same fishermen will be saying all they caught were 17” – 17 ½” fish. Ok, so you think I am wrong on this and there were really an abundance of 17 ½” to 18” fish around last year? That would be even better because by this year they will be all 18” plus fish and we will be able to keep them anyway.

10.) Enacting the option with a 17 ½” size limit will not only result in us having to reduce the bag limit from 8 to 5 but will reduce the number of days we are allowed to fish from 170 to 147. It is simply not worth losing 3 fish from our bag limit and 23 days of fishing just to be a able to keep a few more 17 ½” – 18” fish during the season.


11.) There is a more likely chance that we will exceed our quota if we drop to a 17 ½” size limit. Should that happen, the overage will be deducted from next year's quota. I checked the charts and found that the 17 1/2" option results in liberalization of 37% with MRFSS data and 94% liberalization with NJVAS data. Option 2 (18" fish) results in 34% liberalization with MRFSS data and 54% liberalization with NJVAS data.

[CaptTB]

Paul, thanks for the shameless plug and self promotion.

[SaltLife1980]

Originally Posted by Inishmore3

The frustration is that the RFA supported the 2012 regulations when it seems most of the folks do not. The people send their money to the RFA because they are told the RFA is the voice of the people.

The other frustration I think the folks are having is the RFA tells you if it was not for us, things would be worse. When the government closed sea bass on October 4, 2009, what was worse than that? Again, what was worse than that? And don't tell the people well, it got better. I am talking about that day. October 4, 2009. We had a sudden closure of sea bass and fluke had been closed for some time.

2013 seems like another reduction for fluke. Maybe the RFA could tell the people what the action plan is to fight this. How will the RFA use the people's funds to combat the impending 2013 fluke situation? People send you checks and go on fishing trips that donate to RFA. I think you owe the people an explination on how you will combat this impending situation. And who knows, maybe it can be a win. Maybe a loss. But at least tell the people where their money is going to combat this and other reduced fishery seasons. You owe it to the people who donate to the RFA.


I don't think the other gentleman is trying to fight you, I think he is just so frustrated with these threats from the government about reduced season and such while at the same time the RFA asks for money to keep America fishing.

I am not trying to fight you either, I am just trying to stop the current fight. I think all the people are asking is come clean with what their money is being used for.

Well put and written.. Makes Sense.. What is the RFA going to do?



Not starting any issues just wondering the same thing

[Sidewinder]

Originally Posted by Angler Paul

Send me your money and come to my meeting

No reply to my facts?

[Angler Paul]

Paul with all do respect, we did not go over anything. Actually we were under in many seasons, and the funny thing about one particular year where we lost half the fleet and actually had a 2 week closure in the middle of our fluke season mind you with only half a fleet so not many boats for all of LI actually targeting fluke we went over and it was For 2009, the minimum size limit was 21 inches, compared to 20.5 the year before. The bag limit was two fish, down from four. Additionally, there was a split season:

Open: May 15 – June 15.

Closed: June 16 – July 2.

Open: July 3 – August 17.

Closed thereafter.

And we still went over because of BS Data from the MRFSS, that boarded vessels and took numbers down in surveys.

Care to challenge these facts?


Sidewinder, The info. I posted about NY making poor management decisions that resulted in them exceeding their quotas came from the NJMFC. I believed them to be correct but do not have the time to research prior years to see when NY exceeded its quota and when it did not. I don't doubt what you said either and I certainly agree that the real problem is the "fatally flawed data" that we have all been complaining about for years.