Think we will see Whiting in our lifetime?

[Blind Archer]

Being a Raritan bay local my whole life and having some un-imaginable catches through out the years, my first notice of the decline in flounder was in the early 90's. Before that, the party boats really didn't work the west end of the bay too often. The spring run marquis were lit up with "Bay Flounder" and a new era of pressure on the pre-spawn females was in gear. The loss of roe ripe females from the year classes started the numbers to fall off to where a dozen for a couple of hours was decent catch. If the Boston harbor flatties can be fished out to warrant the current limits, Jersey certainly could too! Just curious, with the warming waters, does any one have insight to the New Hampshire and Maine whiting and flounder fisheries ?

[bulletbob]

Originally Posted by Blind Archer

Being a Raritan bay local my whole life and having some un-imaginable catches through out the years, my first notice of the decline in flounder was in the early 90's. Before that, the party boats really didn't work the west end of the bay too often. The spring run marquis were lit up with "Bay Flounder" and a new era of pressure on the pre-spawn females was in gear. The loss of roe ripe females from the year classes started the numbers to fall off to where a dozen for a couple of hours was decent catch. If the Boston harbor flatties can be fished out to warrant the current limits, Jersey certainly could too! Just curious, with the warming waters, does any one have insight to the New Hampshire and Maine whiting and flounder fisheries ?

Thank you.. I didn't think I was crazy... I too recall when the party boats started fishing off Union beach and even further west... A few years later the numbers started to drop off fast.. I am NOT blaming the party boats, OR recreationals, OR netters.. I think we all took too many fish when they were easy pickins... Did anyone REALLY need a couple of full five gallon buckets of huge flounder, every time out?... I recall some of those fluke sized Raritan Bay flounder having yellow tails btw...
I recall one day fishing just off the old busted down Keansburg Pier[before it was built back up].. My brother and I were in a little tin boat, and 2 big party boats from AH showed up... Water was shallow maybe 12-15 feet..
The two boats got real close together, and started revving their engines together.. The water in back of the boats was just churning like crazy.. They did it for a minute or two.. The only thing we could figure out is that they were stirring the bottom up, loosening little critters to draw flounder under the boats.. never saw that before or after that one time.
Look guys, I'm on your side. I just want the fish back where they were, and where they belong.. Big numbers are great, but in my opinion even recreational guys can put a huge amount of pressure on certain stocks, and flounder and probably blacks, are those kinds of fish, because they are "in range" for a good number of fisherman, for a good part of the year... bob

[Blind Archer]

Yeah I guess I kinda made it sound like the PB's were the culprits. Not by themselves I must admit ( I helped too!) Before they made their presence known, only us locals and a handful of boats from Staten Island would be on these west end fish. The west end was still off the map to most flat fisherman until the more visable boats showed up. Round shoal would be loaded with fish just comin out of the mud and many never had the chance to drop their eggs. UB was unreal in the spring and pretty good if you had a slow dropping fall water temp.

[bulletbob]

Originally Posted by Blind Archer

Yeah I guess I kinda made it sound like the PB's were the culprits. Not by themselves I must admit ( I helped too!) Before they made their presence known, only us locals and a handful of boats from Staten Island would be on these west end fish. The west end was still off the map to most flat fisherman until the more visable boats showed up. Round shoal would be loaded with fish just comin out of the mud and many never had the chance to drop their eggs. UB was unreal in the spring and pretty good if you had a slow dropping fall water temp.

A lot of us helped..The PB's actually got there late in the game... Just a few years after they moved into the UB [and west] area in the spring, the fish were already in trouble.. When areas are stacked up with fish, no matter what the species, we fisherman seem to get complacent and think they will always be there year after year, all we have to do is go get them.. its just not the case..
Back in the 70's and 80's, I never for one second thought a day would come where I could not go and catch whiting or flounder when the water was cool in the spring, late fall, and winter... I do hope the whiting come back before I'm too old to fish anymore.. Same with winter flounder... bob

[NoWorries]

There's alot more going on with these fisheries, flounder and whiting than just over fishing from recs and commercial. Climate changes have influenced , increases in populations of cormorants (fish eating birds) and seals and other mammals. The striped bass come back of the late nineties too , fluke and bluefish too ! During the months of June and July flounder are still here in numbers but in deep water and are caught while targeting ling and seabass. AND in Jan and Feb are caught in fyke nets inside rivers and bays in good numbers too. I've read that certain pollutants from fertillizers and pest control and other sources has had an impact on the percentage of male and female flounder too. Making spawning less effective. THere's no money for these studies and very little has been done to put into use any info gained from studies that have been done. On the bight side, In the last 2 years thru our winters and into spring I've seen encouraging signs of increases in flounder numbers in my area as caught by hook and line fishermen during the winter and spring. Ling rebounded last winter with some great catches thru a mild winter. There have been more cod caught in NJ waters the last few winters than in many years. There's still good numbers of whiting up north of Cape Cod too . Regulations for fisheries in the last 20 years have changed everthing but unless more is known on "what to do" besides just hit the recreational fisherman with more restrictions, I believe some of this will remain unchanged. Just my .02

[italianfisherman]

Originally Posted by NoWorries

There's alot more going on with these fisheries, flounder and whiting than just over fishing from recs and commercial. Climate changes have influenced , increases in populations of cormorants (fish eating birds) and seals and other mammals. The striped bass come back of the late nineties too , fluke and bluefish too ! During the months of June and July flounder are still here in numbers but in deep water and are caught while targeting ling and seabass. AND in Jan and Feb are caught in fyke nets inside rivers and bays in good numbers too. I've read that certain pollutants from fertillizers and pest control and other sources has had an impact on the percentage of male and female flounder too. Making spawning less effective. THere's no money for these studies and very little has been done to put into use any info gained from studies that have been done. On the bight side, In the last 2 years thru our winters and into spring I've seen encouraging signs of increases in flounder numbers in my area as caught by hook and line fishermen during the winter and spring. Ling rebounded last winter with some great catches thru a mild winter. There have been more cod caught in NJ waters the last few winters than in many years. There's still good numbers of whiting up north of Cape Cod too . Regulations for fisheries in the last 20 years have changed everthing but unless more is known on "what to do" besides just hit the recreational fisherman with more restrictions, I believe some of this will remain unchanged. Just my .02

I DO AGREE...

[NoLimit]

Leroy's Fish House

"We Smoke Anything"

And I remember picking up whiting at night on the beach they were so thick in the wash.

It wasn't because of party boats

[CaptTB]

Think we will see Whiting in our lifetime?

No, I don't.