Not Good

[CaptTB]

Wow, lots of views but no comments? No surprises? Figured this one woul dbe a hot topic.

Goes to show you how much I know!

[Fishguts]

Originally Posted by CaptTB

Wow, lots of views but no comments? No surprises? Figured this one woul dbe a hot topic.

Goes to show you how much I know!

This one seems a little hard to blame on Corzine Lots of factual information and need for independant thought seems like a real thread killer around here. To be honest I am on the fence on my own beliefs on this one. When some of the tags from "our east coast fish" showed up in the Med catches it showed that there is much more to learn about these fish stocks. What type of opinion do people have when they see a picture of a 600lb bluefin tuna hanging on a scale?????????? does your opinion change when you hear that it was caught by a guy on a center consel on a popper? How about if that it was caught by a long liner looking for swords? How about if it was caught by a "charter boat" that split the fish sale profits? How about if that picture really came from the floor of a Japanese fish auction house and was just shipped there from a "charter boat". Same dead fish in the picture...any differnt opinions. Would the listing really help police over seas? Would it be an unnecessary burden on US fisherman? Thanks for the post Capt TB ...I myself see much grey on this one....I would not mind seeing some of your opinions.

[Chris_JC]

Originally Posted by CaptTB

Wow, lots of views but no comments? No surprises? Figured this one woul dbe a hot topic.

Goes to show you how much I know!

I knew it is known that PETA would like to stop all fishing (commercial/recreation), hunting, etc but I did not know too much about PEW Charitable Trust. From the quick reading I did today about them it looks like they are a conservation group working towards responsible fishing (commerical/rec) and not the elimination of fishing as well improved habitat/environment.

So, I guess my point is given PETA's agenda on fishing I can disregard their opinions but from what I read about about PEW it looks like their studies, opinions, donations to the Monterey Bay Aquarium and its thoughts on bluefin tuna can be taken more reputably when connecting the dots between the groups.

Here is something from the PEW website:

Pew Oceans Commission

We depend on the oceans—for food, jobs, recreation and solace. Ocean currents circulate the energy and water that regulate the earth’s climate and weather and thus affect many aspects of the human experience, whether we live on the nation’s coasts or its heartland.

In the first thorough review of ocean policy in 34 years, the Pew Oceans Commission released a host of recommendations in 2003 to guide the way in which the federal government will successfully manage America’s marine environment. The report found that more than 60 percent of America’s coastal rivers and bays are degraded by nutrient runoff. Crucial species like groundfish and salmon are under assault from overfishing. Invasive species are establishing themselves in the nation’s coastal waters.

The commission recommended


improving the management of the nation’s commercial fisheries;
establishing networks of marine reserves in coastal waters;
increasing the involvement of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers in environmental restoration;
applying strong environmental standards to fish farms; and
regulating the discharge of waste by cruise ships.
The Pew Oceans Commission concluded its work, but its findings are still available online to aid researchers and policy makers.

[CaptTB]

Originally Posted by Chris_JC

....but I did not know too much about PEW Charitable Trust. From the quick reading I did today about them it looks like they are a conservation group working towards responsible fishing (commerical/rec) and not the elimination of fishing as well improved habitat/environment.

So, I guess my point is given PETA's agenda on fishing I can disregard their opinions but from what I read about about PEW it looks like their studies, opinions, donations to the Monterey Bay Aquarium and its thoughts on bluefin tuna can be taken more reputably when connecting the dots between the groups.

Chris, thank you for the taking the time to look at some of this stuff.

I would suggest that when talking about PEW you look a bit deeper at exactly who they fund.

you see, PEW does very little directly and the bulk of the work done by anti-fishing groups is PAID FOR by PEW.

For example, in addition to MFCN (which has been a major opponent of fishermen for years) PEW has funded groups like EDF (Environmental Defense Fund) Ocean Conservancy (where our wonderful dogfish problem originated) and many, many others.

PEW "science" has been questioned often (like Dr. Worm's Study) and has many times been considered "the best science money can buy."

Another example, PEW funded groups have been known to refuse a scientist the ability to publish his/her work done at their behest because the conclusions did not fit with their agenda and did not come to the conclusions they were looking for.

A scientist who's name would be familiar to many here had just such an issue in the past.

Groups like SSFFF have made it a point to allow anyone doing work for them to publish the results of their work REGARDLESS OF THE OUTCOME of whatever study/work they were doing.

There is grant funded science for the sake of accuracy and there is grant funded science looking to arrive at a specific, predetermined answer.

Just a word of caution when looking at PEW and those they fund.

You'll also notice that PEW receives a massive amount of money from the Sun oil family fortune, and oddly enough none of the work PEW funds deals with environmental issues revolving around oil.

Hmmmmmm......

[captmark]

[QUOTE=1captainron]Maybe the PEW foundation should go to France, Spain, Austrailia, Japan and all the other countries who basically laugh at the U.S. when we try to propose any form of conservation.....The Freakin French kill 18 inch Bluefin with no regard toward the future.

The EU his talking out of both sides and always has been, my brother in law saw 12 to 20" Bluefin Tuna being sold at a market in Spain last month. The EU is the biggest raper of the ocean

[GDubya07]

Very Ironic that PEW or the charitable trust is funded by the Sun Oil Company trust - but no mention to stop oil drilling in our ocean's - MMMM - Can you say bought off???

Also if they dont like the results of there studies they find the results with another - very true

Be-Careful With PEW and anything associated to them - they fund alot of ANTI-Fishing

Just do a google seacrh and follow the money and you will see where it comes from and were it goes -

EU - they could care less about the size of a tuna - while we try to do the right thing other countries could care less and comes down to the money and what they will make

G- Out -

[CaptTB]

Sorry.........

[High low]

Just a snapshot of PEW for those who do not already know.
http://www.capitalresearch.org/pubs/pdf/05_04_FW.pdf

The Philadelphia-based Pew Charitable
Trusts is one of the nation’s largest
and most influential philanthropic foundations.
The Pew Charitable Trusts are actually
an interlocking set of seven trusts
established by the children of turn-of-the century
oil baron Joseph N. Pew, and stewarded
by the family’s private investment
bank, the Glenmede Trust Company, which
is the trustee of the seven charitable trusts.
Glenmede manages $14 billion of total Pew
family wealth, about $4 billion of which
belongs to the Pew Charitable Trusts.

As Capt Tony and many others have stated, the almighty $ is LAW, and their calls for donations of time and money are not them begging to fatten their pockets. These institutions are very well funded and knowledge of them and their policies is the starting point in the fight to have our voices heard. Remember one thing, money buys the lobbyists, and the lobbyists have the access to the decision makers. Without the money and / or lobbyists, our fight will get much tougher and our victories will become fewer. I am a member of the RFA, I do donate, so far my money, but now my time. Do recreational fishermen have the collective resources to mount a sustainable defense to this assault on our lives? I hope so, it's what we are all banking on.

[CaptTB]

Some articles on the topic of PEW, anti-fishing lobbies and "Fisheries Science" from Nils Stolpe.

Nils and I certainly have disagreed on a great many things over the years, and we have also agreed on many as well. While his "pro-commercial" stance and "not-positive" recreational stance (I will not call him anti-recreational because I know he is not, he is by the nature of his job simply pro-commercial) may put off some recreational fishermen, myself included at times, he has however done extensive research into the aforementioned groups/topics.

To further the discussion about our collective opponents in the realm of fisheries issues, take a gander at these articles by Nils.

The Pew Commission – a basis for national ocean policy?

Who needs science

The real enemy

It should have been Acrockalypse Now - Another Perspective, October 8, 2009