NJ Landlock Record

[Esox Luciano]

Originally Posted by reason162

That's a nice one too! Props for the release👊.

[Jigman13]

Thats a DOPE pic Roger.

Originally Posted by reason162

At least at one of these lakes I see no one taking salmon, in fact everyone I talk to/interact with on the water releases salmon bc of the perceived rarity etc.

If the salmon are largely catch/release, then whether they spawn becomes a moot point - hundreds stocked each year adds up. I can tell you the first year I never saw a salmon while bass fishing, 2nd year I caught 3, but the last 2 years...they were a pretty regular bycatch. And when the water temps fall in Sept/Oct/Nov, the bass start slowing down, while the salmon are operating at peak energy breaking up the herring schools. This definitely has changed the Fall patterns for bass, and I have my doubts as to the DEP holding a crystal ball on the future for some of these lakes, esp the one the state record came out of - it's about as healthy and balanced a fishery we have in NJ...I see no reason to f with it lol.

You're catching more because they're stocking more when they introduced the fall stocking program in 2018 the result of discontinuing raising Lake Trout for Merrill Creek due to natural reproduction occurring there and dedicating that space at the hatchery to rear more Atlantics.

This isn't a new fishery, Wawayanda and Aeroflex have been stocked since 2006. Tilcon was added to the program in 2014 and Merrill in 2018. Have the indigenous or existing species in any of these impoundments been decimated?

We live in a state with arguably one of the most diverse and successful fisheries management programs in the country. Have some faith, NJ has a proven track record. Aeroflex has been stocked with Atlantics for 15 years so they've been part of that healthy and well balanced fishery you refer to. Don't think there's any reason or known adverse effects at this point to sound an alarm.

[reason162]

Originally Posted by dakota560

YThis isn't a new fishery, Wawayanda and Aeroflex have been stocked since 2006. Tilcon was added to the program in 2014

None of those lakes have smallies. They are going after the same forage. And if you talk to people who fished Tilcon since before the salmon stocking, that lake is a dramatically different bass fishery since.

For the most part lakers and smallies attack herring at different depths, but not so salmon, which can feed down 50ft one second and up on top the next. With lakers we got lucky and they found a balance at MC - with salmon, who knows.

Between the insane pressure from covid and social media spot burning anything and everything, I think NJ was too hasty with the MC decision. Then again this is speaking as a bass guy...I really couldn't care less about stocked salmon or trout.

Roger I've heard the same regarding a drop off in bass but not convinced it's due to the introduction of landlocks. There's a ton of herring in that lake, can see the massive schools on your recorder or even fishing from shore.

For the last few years, we've had safe ice during the winter. What impact is the bucket brigade having on the bass population during the winter. At the same time, CO's have been trying to catch a group of idiots cast netting fish the last few years, including bass, from shore and last I've heard they haven't been successful. What's that impact?

My point with Tilcon is the fall off in bass in my opinion isn't due to lack of herring which is hugely abundant and I doubt landlocks are eating the bass or fry. As you said, they're keyed in on herring. That lake up until some years ago was never fished, now as mentioned with social media it's a zoo. During winters with safe ice there'll be 60 guys ice fishing it on the weekend. Lot of landlocks taken and have seen a lot of bass on stringers coming out of there as well. You can't have that kind of pressure on a relatively small body of water and think it won't have consequences. Are landlocks contributing, I can't say definitively yes or no but don't think they're the problem. I think a substantial increase in fishing pressure is.

[Billfish715]

Round Valley was supposed to be managed for smallmouth bass and Spruce Run was to be a largemouth impoundment. When brown and rainbow trout were stocked in RV, they were the fish of choice. The lines of fishermen at the local bait shop in the early morning hours was always a long one with guys waiting to buy dozens of herring to use for trout. The reservoir was stocked on a weekly basis as well as supplemented with private fish. The fishery grew despite the pressure but also because of the regular stockings and the abundance of herring present. No one ever really talked of the smallmouth fishing.

The shoreline changed over the years as the old hedgerows and trees disappeared and the banks eroded leaving more silt along the edges. As the reservoir matured, some of its features changed and so did the fishing. The addition of a new fishery with the stocking of lake trout was met with great promises but was also met with great disappointment for those who pursued trophy brown trout. All was fine and then the major forage base declined as the lakers took over. While the scuds were still providing some protein, the dwindling herring population could not sustain both a trophy brown trout and lake trout fishery.

The introduction of more species of fish into Spruce Run changed the focus to those new species and away from what was an interesting fishery for trout that would enter two of the creeks that spilled into the reservoir. There was great hope for that fishery especially in the beginning when the reservoir was first being filled. Browns and rainbows actually did congregate at the mouths of the creeks and were pounced on by many fishermen from both the banks and boats. Again, those hopes faded as the reservoir was prone to water drawdowns and temperature rises.

The addition of the warmwater species is actually a rather successful venture in Spruce Run. One can only hope the lessons learned from the experiments at Spruce Run and Round Valley will help avoid any disastrous results in the future fishing at the newer, state run impoundments. Natural forage is a big concern in the growth of the fish but, since there is no natural reproduction of the trout, we have to hope the state can continue to raise enough of them to maintain a viable fishery. It would also help to continue to raise larger fish and maintain creel limits that will not quickly deplete the population.

[bulletbob]

I for one can se no reason at all why LL salmon would have such a large detrimental affect on a bass population..

The salmon typically follow their food... In summer when the alewives are deep so are the salmon not far from them.. They suspend and typically keep moving,, LMB on the other hand don't stay suspended and deep the way salmonids do.. They WILL do it, and have been caught relating to bait in deep colder water, but its far less typical, and on most lakes most often, black bass will typically be relating to structure or vegetation as their main mode of survival..There are always bass in shallow water on structure and in normal habitat in deep lakes with alewife populations.. there are never LLS in shallow water in those lakes during warm weather.. They will always be close to or just above then thermocline not far from the alewives... Yes black bass can and will eat alewives if they can catch them, but they are not all in deep water mid lake in the thermocline following them around the way salmonids do...

Catch a LLS in a lake with alewives, and 95 % of the time, it will have alewives in its gut when you clean it.

In the same lake a LMB would have crayfish, small sunfish,perch, small minnow type fish or baby LMB in its gut... Salmon do not eat LMB eggs or raid their nests, so I am not real sure why a LMB population would fall by the introduction of LMB... They just don't compete for the same space or the same food all that much... Main problem in NJ has to be the same one we face up here.. Too much human predation/interaction..
We too have had black bass decimated in lakes containing salmon, but it was not the salmon that caused it, its the hundreds of tournaments that are never ending on all these lakes, leaving masses of dead fish behind at the weigh in locations...bob

[reason162]

Originally Posted by bulletbob

so I am not real sure why a LMB population would fall by the introduction of LMB... They just don't compete for the same space or the same food all that much...

In herring lakes LMB can and do rely heavily on herring as forage, until they reach about +/- 4lbs - then they're a little too slow to chase them down in open water, but will always key in on herring when the schools get pushed against an edge.

But I'm talking about SMB - which in many of these herring lakes are basically pelagic chasing herring outside of the spawn cycle. If you're imitating a herring and fishing for SMB, you're catching salmon.

[NJSquatch]

Originally Posted by reason162

But I'm talking about SMB - which in many of these herring lakes are basically pelagic chasing herring outside of the spawn cycle. If you're imitating a herring and fishing for SMB, you're catching salmon.

Agree with Roger here. The SMB fishing has definitely changed at MCR since the introduction of the LL salmon. You used to be able to troll SMB with consistent results. Haven't had anywhere near the success since 2018 when the LL were first stocked.

I don't think the SMB have disappeared but have been displaced and are no longer pelagic chasing the herring.

Congrats to the angler on one hell of a catch. That is an amazing grow rate for < 3 years.

Not arguing anyone's positions, think this is a productive thread. That said, read the article in the attached link, would appear at least in this case the opposite is happening. Small mouths are pushing landlocks out. It's a recent article written March 17, 2020.

https://www.asf.ca/news-and-magazine...mallmouth-bass

The article is about a system in New Brunswick so I'm guessing the forage fish might be smelts as opposed to alewives which seems the case in most New England / northern lakes. If so, maybe the interaction and staging of different forage fish or water temperatures has something to do with the balance or dynamics of both fisheries.

Going to see what I can find on Sebago Lake in Maine and some other lakes in New England closer to New Jersey. Fished Sebago as a kid and it was and believe still is one of the best small mouth lakes in the country. If I find anything, I'll post it.