What's Going On With Our Fisheries?

[Gerry Zagorski]

Used to be at any time of the year you could find some fishery that was open and you actually had a chance at catching something.

Seems like we always used to have some seasonal gap and back up fillers like Winter Flounder, Ling and Whiting as well as some staples like Bluefish and Weakfish that are now absent.

Couple that with all the recent doom and gloom with Fluke and now Striper recruitment and open and shut Seabass and Blackfish seasons, what the heck are we going to be able to fish for if there are gaps in those seasons?

A lot of theories as what or who is to blame but suffices to say the federal agencies that are in charge of managing the resource are failing us miserably. We can and should expect more from them given their $1.2 Billion per year budget, don't you think?

[hammer4reel]

Originally Posted by Gerry Zagorski

Used to be at any time of the year you could find some fishery that was open and you actually had a chance at catching something.

Seems like we always used to have some seasonal gap and back up fillers like Winter Flounder, Ling and Whiting as well as some staples like Bluefish and Weakfish that are now absent.

Couple that with all the recent doom and gloom with Fluke and now Striper recruitment and open and shut Seabass and Blackfish seasons, what the heck are we going to be able to fish for if there are gaps in those seasons?

A lot of theories as what or who is to blame but suffices to say the federal agencies that are in charge of managing the resource are failing us miserably. We can and should expect more from them given their $1.2 Billion per year budget, don't you think?

One look at the 2007 marine summary card , and the 2023 summary card shows ABSOLUTE failure across the board .

Only place we didn’t loose yet is crabs and clams .
.
Then they go and protect dogfish WTF.

IMO they don’t want you to be able to go catch your own food .


.THEY see the fisheries as a political cash cow , in which they want to offer it to the highest bidder .

.

[togzilla]

Originally Posted by Gerry Zagorski

Used to be at any time of the year you could find some fishery that was open and you actually had a chance at catching something.

Seems like we always used to have some seasonal gap and back up fillers like Winter Flounder, Ling and Whiting as well as some staples like Bluefish and Weakfish that are now absent.

Couple that with all the recent doom and gloom with Fluke and now Striper recruitment and open and shut Seabass and Blackfish seasons, what the heck are we going to be able to fish for if there are gaps in those seasons?

A lot of theories as what or who is to blame but suffices to say the federal agencies that are in charge of managing the resource are failing us miserably. We can and should expect more from them given their $1.2 Billion per year budget, don't you think?

It's been pretty obvious to me for many, many years. We have un-elected bureaucrats that are shutting down our ability fish one season at a time. It's death by a thousand cuts and just look at how many party boat & charter boats we have now compared to 25 years ago. Their ultimate goal is to slowly bleed us out of this fishery much like they have done for California fisherman. There are some people who understand this and that is why NJ & RI commercial fisherman are suing the federal govt. to overturn a 40 year old court ruling know as the "Chevron Deference" which essentially means that courts defer to federal agencies in their interpretations of broad or unclear language in the laws passed by Congress. These federal agencies are now demanding that commercial fisherman must bear the cost of these govt. employees that are required to be abroad these commercial fishing trips to monitor their catch at a cost of $700 a day. Sometimes the crew do not even make anywhere near that amount of money and this is just an added cost to their business. I assure you these un-elected bureaucrats are not fighting for our rights and freedoms but for govt. control and we all know what side of the political isle they represent.
I'm sure they are going to be some liberal trolls that will dispute this with no facts or evidence which I have seen them do multiple times on this website. Elections have consequences and for decades the corrupt media, education institutes, and politicians have been lying to us which is why this country is in serious trouble and why there is so much divisiveness and hatred. People will blame Trump and his supporters but all Trump did was help awaken the American public. Don't get me wrong I think Trump is an egomaniac and offends a lot of people. However, this is not a 6th grade election on who the coolest kid is but simply about policy. Between Biden & Trump there is only 1 candidate who is representing the American citizen and their freedoms and rights. Unlike most trolls on this website that won't back up their opinion or just put a link to a far progressive political group with little factual content below is a link from ABC (left leaning too) on this court case!
I think the only way things will change is to have a massive electoral change in the direction of this county but more importantly to start class action lawsuits because money is the only thing that drives our politicians and not morals or ethics. WHAT DO THE TROLLS HAVE TO SAY?
https://6abc.com/cape-may-new-jersey...otus/14335908/

[Gerry Zagorski]

Originally Posted by hammer4reel

One look at the 2007 marine summary card , and the 2023 summary card shows ABSOLUTE failure across the board .

Only place we didn’t loose yet is crabs and clams .
.
Then they go and protect dogfish WTF.

IMO they don’t want you to be able to go catch your own food .


.THEY see the fisheries as a political cash cow , in which they want to offer it to the highest bidder .

.

You and I usually have differing opinions on things but we're in lock step on this one.

They couldn't have screwed this up more! I'm no conspiracy theory type person, but I find myself thinking more and more, is this exactly how they want it to be or is it total incompetence?

Either way, things need to change and people need to be held accountable to "we the people" they're supposed to serve.

Yeah, when pigs fly out of my butt

[Gerry Zagorski]

Originally Posted by togzilla

It's been pretty obvious to me for many, many years. We have un-elected bureaucrats that are shutting down our ability fish one season at a time. It's death by a thousand cuts and just look at how many party boat & charter boats we have now compared to 25 years ago. Their ultimate goal is to slowly bleed us out of this fishery much like they have done for California fisherman. There are some people who understand this and that is why NJ & RI commercial fisherman are suing the federal govt. to overturn a 40 year old court ruling know as the "Chevron Deference" which essentially means that courts defer to federal agencies in their interpretations of broad or unclear language in the laws passed by Congress. These federal agencies are now demanding that commercial fisherman must bear the cost of these govt. employees that are required to be abroad these commercial fishing trips to monitor their catch at a cost of $700 a day. Sometimes the crew do not even make anywhere near that amount of money and this is just an added cost to their business. I assure you these un-elected bureaucrats are not fighting for our rights and freedoms but for govt. control and we all know what side of the political isle they represent.
I'm sure they are going to be some liberal trolls that will dispute this with no facts or evidence which I have seen them do multiple times on this website. Elections have consequences and for decades the corrupt media, education institutes, and politicians have been lying to us which is why this country is in serious trouble and why there is so much divisiveness and hatred. People will blame Trump and his supporters but all Trump did was help awaken the American public. Don't get me wrong I think Trump is an egomaniac and offends a lot of people. However, this is not a 6th grade election on who the coolest kid is but simply about policy. Between Biden & Trump there is only 1 candidate who is representing the American citizen and their freedoms and rights. Unlike most trolls on this website that won't back up their opinion or just put a link to a far progressive political group with little factual content below is a link from ABC (left leaning too) on this court case!
I think the only way things will change is to have a massive electoral change in the direction of this county but more importantly to start class action lawsuits because money is the only thing that drives our politicians and not morals or ethics. WHAT DO THE TROLLS HAVE TO SAY?
https://6abc.com/cape-may-new-jersey...otus/14335908/

Oh boy it's getting hot in here now...Pass the popcorn!

As far as I'm concerned, it's rigged on both sides to serve them, not us. The more they keep us fighting and divided the better it is for them... It ebbs and flows like the tide but there's no slack tide any more and that's exactly how they want it.. You're either labeled as left or right and it goes from one extreme or the other and no longer any middle.

[dales529]

Originally Posted by togzilla

It's been pretty obvious to me for many, many years. We have un-elected bureaucrats that are shutting down our ability fish one season at a time. It's death by a thousand cuts and just look at how many party boat & charter boats we have now compared to 25 years ago. Their ultimate goal is to slowly bleed us out of this fishery much like they have done for California fisherman. There are some people who understand this and that is why NJ & RI commercial fisherman are suing the federal govt. to overturn a 40 year old court ruling know as the "Chevron Deference" which essentially means that courts defer to federal agencies in their interpretations of broad or unclear language in the laws passed by Congress. These federal agencies are now demanding that commercial fisherman must bear the cost of these govt. employees that are required to be abroad these commercial fishing trips to monitor their catch at a cost of $700 a day. Sometimes the crew do not even make anywhere near that amount of money and this is just an added cost to their business. I assure you these un-elected bureaucrats are not fighting for our rights and freedoms but for govt. control and we all know what side of the political isle they represent.
I'm sure they are going to be some liberal trolls that will dispute this with no facts or evidence which I have seen them do multiple times on this website. Elections have consequences and for decades the corrupt media, education institutes, and politicians have been lying to us which is why this country is in serious trouble and why there is so much divisiveness and hatred. People will blame Trump and his supporters but all Trump did was help awaken the American public. Don't get me wrong I think Trump is an egomaniac and offends a lot of people. However, this is not a 6th grade election on who the coolest kid is but simply about policy. Between Biden & Trump there is only 1 candidate who is representing the American citizen and their freedoms and rights. Unlike most trolls on this website that won't back up their opinion or just put a link to a far progressive political group with little factual content below is a link from ABC (left leaning too) on this court case!
I think the only way things will change is to have a massive electoral change in the direction of this county but more importantly to start class action lawsuits because money is the only thing that drives our politicians and not morals or ethics. WHAT DO THE TROLLS HAVE TO SAY?
https://6abc.com/cape-may-new-jersey...otus/14335908/

I have been an advocate with many fishing groups over my years on this site that included members from both sides of any / all aisles politically, running many fundraising trips for recreational fishing rights, veterans groups etc.

Since MSA was introduced in 1986 we have had Regan, Bush 1, Clinton , Bush 2. Obama , Trump and now Biden so exactly what party is at fault for fishing regulatory issues as each had a chance to adjust it or fix it.??

Left /right / trolls LOL has very little to do with recreational fishery management.

I could argue Freedoms and rights which you stated but seems either /both parties are restricting our democracy daily either outright through the supreme court or under the guise of states law. Pick your poison but sorry there isnt a clear choice going forward. Albeit the above has little to do again with recreational fishing.

Lastly if you believe for one second that overturning the Chevron Deference would have any positive effect on recreational fishing I hope but doubt that you may do more research albeit hard since all information is corrupt or subject to those massive "trolls" we all had as kids!

[togzilla]

Originally Posted by dales529

I have been an advocate with many fishing groups over my years on this site that included members from both sides of any / all aisles politically, running many fundraising trips for recreational fishing rights, veterans groups etc.

Since MSA was introduced in 1986 we have had Regan, Bush 1, Clinton , Bush 2. Obama , Trump and now Biden so exactly what party is at fault for fishing regulatory issues as each had a chance to adjust it or fix it.??

Left /right / trolls LOL has very little to do with recreational fishery management.

I could argue Freedoms and rights which you stated but seems either /both parties are restricting our democracy daily either outright through the supreme court or under the guise of states law. Pick your poison but sorry there isnt a clear choice going forward. Albeit the above has little to do again with recreational fishing.

Lastly if you believe for one second that overturning the Chevron Deference would have any positive effect on recreational fishing I hope but doubt that you may do more research albeit hard since all information is corrupt or subject to those massive "trolls" we all had as kids!

"I could argue Freedoms and rights which you stated but seems either /both parties are restricting our democracy daily either outright through the supreme court or under the guise of states law. Pick your poison but sorry there isnt a clear choice going forward. Albeit the above has little to do again with recreational fishing."

Let me expand a bit because I do agree with some of your points but feel you are missing some of the bigger picture. Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush II, Obama, Trump and Biden have all helped to create the problems we have today, specifically a compounding Gov. problem that is not going to end well.
I am not going to go into economics because I have been studying economics for the last 33 years as it is a requirement of my job and the vast majority of people in this country are economically illiterate. That does not make then bad people at all as I am illiterate in the areas medicine, engineering, etc. But I am educated enough not to post on subjects that I am not extremely well versed in and can back up my findings.
How does the Chevron Deference affect recreational fishing if overturned? In the short term not one bit. But the only way to get some sanity back in this country is to reduce the power that the govt. has over individual states and their citizens. This country is a Constitution Republic and NOT a democracy and this is where most people have been deceived by the media. By overturning "Chevron Deference" this is going to start the long process of giving power back to the states and just as important to Congress and not un-elected bureaucrats. Make no mistake, if "Chevron Deference" is overturned this open up more lawsuits against govt. agencies that have created incredible burdens on many different industries. This will give power back to the states to make decisions that are in the best interest of those citizens that elect their Congressmen and Senators to represent them. Can this be done yes, but I am not optimistic as there is just too much corruption that has been embedded in our represented leaders including our education system. I don't worry for myself as retirement is not far off for me and I will be positioned financially to benefit from the inevitable but I worry a great deal for people that don't understand what is happening.
I have been at NMFS meetings and it is so blatantly obvious they do not have a care in the world for the recreational fisherman even when we challenge flawed science so maybe ask yourself, WHY? Power and govt. control, which makes you think which culture of people in this world have benefited from govt. power and control except those in control.
This is my last post as I should have known not to approach this subject but I guess I am just one person who refuses to be silent anymore.
Trolls go at it, but I will not waste anymore of my time debating with people who are blind to the obvious. Shame on me for even posting!

[FishingSinceIWasThree]

Originally Posted by Gerry Zagorski

Used to be at any time of the year you could find some fishery that was open and you actually had a chance at catching something.

Seems like we always used to have some seasonal gap and back up fillers like Winter Flounder, Ling and Whiting as well as some staples like Bluefish and Weakfish that are now absent.

Couple that with all the recent doom and gloom with Fluke and now Striper recruitment and open and shut Seabass and Blackfish seasons, what the heck are we going to be able to fish for if there are gaps in those seasons?

A lot of theories as what or who is to blame but suffices to say the federal agencies that are in charge of managing the resource are failing us miserably. We can and should expect more from them given their $1.2 Billion per year budget, don't you think?

Agreed...what happened to whiting? Seems like some kind of a mass commercial wipe out to me.

[Fishguy1]

How soon you forget. A lot of the people who post here are older guys. I know this bc they post ad nauseam about “back in the day” when there were no regulations…which led to regulations bc people are greedy and foolish and treated the resource as though it were unlimited. You know what else was true “back in the day”? There were no environmental regulations either. It got so bad that Richard Nixon created the EPA. (That’s right, guys! A republican created the EPA!) Why? Because of places like Raritan Bay and the Hudson River and NY Harbor which were industrial dumping grounds for corporations and sewers for the general public. Make no mistake, the striped bass fishery we enjoy is the direct result of actions by the federal government to reign in pollution. Like it or not it’s reality. There is a tremendous amount of historical scientific data to back this up and I invite any doubters to do some research. Yeah the government sucks a lot of the time but sometimes they do good. It’s the reason there isn’t lead in the paint on your kids toys. It’s the reason cars are the safest they’ve ever been. It’s the reason GE and Dutch Boy paint and Carborundom and United Lead don’t dump industrial wastes into our home waters anymore. It’s the reason Raritan Bay isn’t a festering , lifeless cesspool. My 2 cents.

[hammer4reel]

Originally Posted by Fishguy1

How soon you forget. A lot of the people who post here are older guys. I know this bc they post ad nauseam about “back in the day” when there were no regulations…which led to regulations bc people are greedy and foolish and treated the resource as though it were unlimited. You know what else was true “back in the day”? There were no environmental regulations either. It got so bad that Richard Nixon created the EPA. (That’s right, guys! A republican created the EPA!) Why? Because of places like Raritan Bay and the Hudson River and NY Harbor which were industrial dumping grounds for corporations and sewers for the general public. Make no mistake, the striped bass fishery we enjoy is the direct result of actions by the federal government to reign in pollution. Like it or not it’s reality. There is a tremendous amount of historical scientific data to back this up and I invite any doubters to do some research. Yeah the government sucks a lot of the time but sometimes they do good. It’s the reason there isn’t lead in the paint on your kids toys. It’s the reason cars are the safest they’ve ever been. It’s the reason GE and Dutch Boy paint and Carborundom and United Lead don’t dump industrial wastes into our home waters anymore. It’s the reason Raritan Bay isn’t a festering , lifeless cesspool. My 2 cents.

Comparing the action of the EPA and NMFS is like comparing watermelons to kiwi fruit . And expecting the same return .

SBBM of the fisheries back then was sustainable and a much better recruitment levels . NMFS has messed a lot up with current regs .
Sea bass way beyond rebuilt , destroying the lobster grounds . Eating everything they can .
Protecting Dogfish , eating everything they can .
Allowing way overuse and bycatch throw back by the commercial fleet when fish are at their easiest to target .


It’s NMFS that is destroying the fisheries , and it can be seen across the board .
Meetings showing their own information is tainted falls on deaf ears .

.