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  #21  
Old 11-22-2009, 12:15 PM
PBangler PBangler is offline
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Default Re: Weakfish meeting

Kensdock,

Clearly based on what I've read, you say things without any facts to back up your assertions, as well as omitting key points.

With all due respect, I can't take either your advice or comments seriously.
  #22  
Old 11-22-2009, 07:15 PM
Kensdock Kensdock is offline
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Default Re: Weakfish meeting

Quote:
Originally Posted by PBangler
Kensdock,

Clearly based on what I've read, you say things without any facts to back up your assertions, as well as omitting key points.

With all due respect, I can't take either your advice or comments seriously.
My answer to your question was derived from generations of commercial and recreational fishing knowledge and personal experience. I can assure you that this knowledge and experience can not be found in any hand out,book or the internet. I hope my information helped you form your own opinion. Some people just blindly follow groups like the RFA.
  #23  
Old 11-22-2009, 08:36 PM
PBangler PBangler is offline
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Default Re: Weakfish meeting

Kensdock,

Your background is so different than mine. I have no family history of fishing and I started recreational saltwater fishing late in life.

What I do in order to form my opinion is to read through meeting minutes, stock assessments and public comments.

In the end, I didn’t agree with a moratorium for weakfish at this time.
  #24  
Old 11-23-2009, 10:15 AM
HutchJr HutchJr is offline
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Default Re: Weakfish meeting

A lot of folks did not agree with a moratorium at this time PBAngler – that’s because scientists and fisheries researchers say the decline in weakfish biomass is reflective of a rise in natural mortality, not fishing mortality. In other words, science doesn’t support a moratorium as it would have little impact on the overall stability of the stock.

RFA doesn’t support the use of arbitrary, unsubstantiated and nonscientific information and ideology in closing down fisheries. How could we?

Guys like Ken would rather you listen to his views exclusively than read our specific position statements on weakfish, or anyone else’s for that matter. When Ken starts getting behind in an argument, he turns to personal attacks and innuendo - typical schoolyard bully behavior, “if you don’t give me your ball I’ll beat you up.” I’ve never met the guy, but from what he’s written about himself I understand his fishing exploits are quite legendary.

People don’t follow the RFA blindly – our members understand that our folks are in the trenches everyday dealing with mudslinging, rhetoric, slander and misinformation from the outer reaches. Every message board in America has a Kensdock trying to close and protect some fishery. There’s a BillfishBilly in the Southeast trying to make marlin a catch and release only fishery, Striperswiper wants to make striped bass only accessible to anglers who throw artificials, while GiantTagger wants to make bluefin an endangered species. Add it all up, and you can see where the divisive tactics can take its toll on a community.

Once it gets personal and off the topic at hand, I’m out. Good luck folks!
  #25  
Old 11-23-2009, 12:34 PM
Kensdock Kensdock is offline
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Default Re: Weakfish meeting

Quote:
Originally Posted by HutchJr
A lot of folks did not agree with a moratorium at this time PBAngler – that’s because scientists and fisheries researchers say the decline in weakfish biomass is reflective of a rise in natural mortality, not fishing mortality. In other words, science doesn’t support a moratorium as it would have little impact on the overall stability of the stock.

RFA doesn’t support the use of arbitrary, unsubstantiated and nonscientific information and ideology in closing down fisheries. How could we?

Guys like Ken would rather you listen to his views exclusively than read our specific position statements on weakfish, or anyone else’s for that matter. When Ken starts getting behind in an argument, he turns to personal attacks and innuendo - typical schoolyard bully behavior, “if you don’t give me your ball I’ll beat you up.” I’ve never met the guy, but from what he’s written about himself I understand his fishing exploits are quite legendary.

People don’t follow the RFA blindly – our members understand that our folks are in the trenches everyday dealing with mudslinging, rhetoric, slander and misinformation from the outer reaches. Every message board in America has a Kensdock trying to close and protect some fishery. There’s a BillfishBilly in the Southeast trying to make marlin a catch and release only fishery, Striperswiper wants to make striped bass only accessible to anglers who throw artificials, while GiantTagger wants to make bluefin an endangered species. Add it all up, and you can see where the divisive tactics can take its toll on a community.

Once it gets personal and off the topic at hand, I’m out. Good luck folks!
If you read all the information concerning the weakfish decline and did not support the moratorium option: You have failed to assimilate the information offered by the ASMFC or you have completely disregarded the depleted condition of the weakfish out of greed or self-serving interest.

The overwhelming majority of recreational fishermen voiced their support of the moratorium option.
“The Board received a significant amount of public comment supporting a coastwide moratorium. In
recognition of this, it chose to implement measures that would discourage directed fishing, limit bycatch
mortality, and ensure that critical sampling programs remain on track,” stated Board Chair Roy Miller.
  #26  
Old 11-23-2009, 01:04 PM
PBangler PBangler is offline
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Default Re: Weakfish meeting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kensdock
If you read all the information concerning the weakfish decline and did not support the moratorium option: You have failed to assimilate the information offered by the ASMFC or you have completely disregarded the depleted condition of the weakfish out of greed or self-serving interest.
Kensdock, the same could be said for you.

PROCEEDINGS OF THE ATLANTIC STATES MARINE FISHERIES COMMISSION WEAKFISH MANAGEMENT BOARD - August 19, 2009

DR. DANIEL:
“My whole career has been focused in on weakfish and now we’ve made a big circle. I do want to say a couple of things from the North Carolina perspective.”

“I do have to say I do have a great amount of concern. A lot of you around this table recall the proposal to close the EEZ to weakfish harvest back in the mid-nineties. We vigorously opposed that suggestion because of the multi-species nature of the fisheries off North Carolina and I think some of the other states as well.”

“The sink net fleet will still be operating in the same areas at the same time catching the same fish. They’re just going to have to discard all the weakfish.”

“… but there are also going to be some inside fisheries as well as gillnet fisheries that can have very high quantities of bycatch of weakfish unknowingly.

The last example I’ll give you is the Valentine’s Day Fishery back in 2002, I believe, when a group of about four or five sink net boats went about 30 miles offshore in 360 feet of water, fishing a large-mesh, six-inch gill net for large bluefish, and they all rounded off their boats with tens of thousands of pounds of eight- to fifteen-pound gray trout; very unexpected, unavoidable.

Those fish were all dead …”

MR. O’REILLY

"Given that, I’m going to spend just a minute here, if you don’t mind, but on the moratorium idea I clearly remember in 1991 and the proposal of the technical committee to the management board was as long as you remove all the gear out of the water and do regional blocks of having gear out of the water a moratorium will be very effective."
--------------------------------
Kensdock,

Your idea of simply a moratorium was not going to get us much in the way of commercial reductions of dead fish as opposed to what they voted for. Unlike other recreational anglers who just believed what you had to say, I did my own research and reached a different conclusion. One that was more in alignment with the RFA's points.

Time to move on, this has already been decided for now and there are a ton of important issues that need our attention today.

Last edited by PBangler; 11-23-2009 at 01:14 PM..
  #27  
Old 11-23-2009, 08:10 PM
Kensdock Kensdock is offline
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Default Re: Weakfish meeting

Quote:
Originally Posted by PBangler
Kensdock, the same could be said for you.

PROCEEDINGS OF THE ATLANTIC STATES MARINE FISHERIES COMMISSION WEAKFISH MANAGEMENT BOARD - August 19, 2009

DR. DANIEL:
“My whole career has been focused in on weakfish and now we’ve made a big circle. I do want to say a couple of things from the North Carolina perspective.”

“I do have to say I do have a great amount of concern. A lot of you around this table recall the proposal to close the EEZ to weakfish harvest back in the mid-nineties. We vigorously opposed that suggestion because of the multi-species nature of the fisheries off North Carolina and I think some of the other states as well.”

“The sink net fleet will still be operating in the same areas at the same time catching the same fish. They’re just going to have to discard all the weakfish.”

“… but there are also going to be some inside fisheries as well as gillnet fisheries that can have very high quantities of bycatch of weakfish unknowingly.

The last example I’ll give you is the Valentine’s Day Fishery back in 2002, I believe, when a group of about four or five sink net boats went about 30 miles offshore in 360 feet of water, fishing a large-mesh, six-inch gill net for large bluefish, and they all rounded off their boats with tens of thousands of pounds of eight- to fifteen-pound gray trout; very unexpected, unavoidable.

Those fish were all dead …”

MR. O’REILLY

"Given that, I’m going to spend just a minute here, if you don’t mind, but on the moratorium idea I clearly remember in 1991 and the proposal of the technical committee to the management board was as long as you remove all the gear out of the water and do regional blocks of having gear out of the water a moratorium will be very effective."
--------------------------------
Kensdock,

Your idea of simply a moratorium was not going to get us much in the way of commercial reductions of dead fish as opposed to what they voted for. Unlike other recreational anglers who just believed what you had to say, I did my own research and reached a different conclusion. One that was more in alignment with the RFA's points.

Time to move on, this has already been decided for now and there are a ton of important issues that need our attention today.
I totally disagree! That type of situation is very much avoidable. I am sure all the weakfish that where caught that trip where sold at the market. Here in Cape May co. NJ there was a dramatic drop in weakfish being caught by recs from 2001-2002. Every guy that fished the traditional weakfish spots during the 2002 season had the same question, what happened to the weakfish?!. Mystery solved at last! The dog fish did not eat! them.The stripers did not eat them! The predation theory is total bull &%@$!
Speckled trout or specs as we call them in Cape May co. NJ did not show up this fall in any numbers for the first time in at lest fifty years. What do you think happened to them?
  #28  
Old 11-23-2009, 09:07 PM
PBangler PBangler is offline
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Default Re: Weakfish meeting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kensdock
I What do you think happened to them?
My guess would be a combination of things. Incorrect stock assessments leading the management to believe they were in better shape than they were, which lead to the wrong decisions. Under reporting of dead discards in non-direct commercial fisheries (i.e. scallops) and multi-species commercial fisheries. Under reporting of commercial sales. A huge dent put into them by NJ anglers who legally sold them. Cyclical. Biomass so low at present to cause predator/prey to be a major concern for them now (as prey of course).

Did you sell recreationally caught weakfish ever? If so, you were part of the problem, IMHO.

Last edited by PBangler; 11-23-2009 at 09:11 PM..
  #29  
Old 11-25-2009, 01:12 PM
Kensdock Kensdock is offline
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Posts: 65
Default Re: Hey Kensdock!

Quote:
Originally Posted by shresearchdude
I'm going to have to follow your posts on other websites now.

I've been accused of being anti fishing myself. I'm actually pro environment-which includes fish and everything else on the planet that man has controlled by direct or indirect means. And I think they taste great.
Fishing organizations whether commercial or recreational are greedy-they want the most of what their members can get. They aren't always looking towards the future. Closing the striped bass down years ago really was a stupid idea...
Excellent! The power of the majority will not be denied!

“The Board received a significant amount of public comment supporting a coastwide moratorium. In
recognition of this, it chose to implement measures that would discourage directed fishing, limit bycatch
mortality, and ensure that critical sampling programs remain on track,” stated Board Chair Roy Miller.

This was accomplished with out a paid staff, lawyers or a law suit.
It was accomplished with the combined effort of individual anglers!!
I hope in the future we continue to take the time to send our comments and make a phone call or two.If we do, no law or regulation will stand without the consent of the majority.
 


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