Fluke Regs this year

[hammer4reel]

Originally Posted by bulletbob

Ok, Understood.. then WHY the slot limit??.. I mean according to a few guys, the fishing is great, getting a limit of fish is no problem, then why not just keep the status quo??.. Seriously. If the fishing is that good, limits are no real problem, why change anything at all??.. must just be a lot of pretty poor unskilled anglers out there that just don't know what they're doing, [such as myself], or a lot of fluke fishermen that just like to complain, despite good fishing... bob

Slot limit was based on boats fishing skinny water being able to take a few fish home , AND to hope some of those smaller fish were males . Taking some pressure off our breeding females.

IMO many guys catch just as many fish as they had ten years ago , difference is with the keeper size being larger they don't catch as many keepers.
But we get charged a high mortality rate for the fish we throw back.

SO instead of getting charged poundage for fish getting released, allow those guys to keep a few fish and actually get to eat what they got charged for.

Many guys catching 20 - 30 shorts might actually be done fishing after keeping a few 17" fish also lowering the BS mortality quota.

[tuna john]

Fish 90% of time in Cape May, ride to catch fluke anywhere from 7 miles to almost to 18. We fish a lot of days and like to think we are at least average. Honestly they could have made the limit 20 fish last year, as most day we were lucky to have 5 or six keepers for 3 to 4 guys. Crap year. drop the size few fish to take home and less harmful to the stock

[pectoralfin]

Why the slot limit for scup and black sea bass?

Originally Posted by Detour66

3@ 16.5"....2 @ 18"- 21" ... 1 trophy fish with tag! (21" +)

Don't mean to stir the pot here but I think it's important for us all to understand what's happening. I know I'm a broken record on this topic but it's important enough to me and should be to everyone including the many business owners associated with the fishery so I'll accept that risk.

Two years ago, Dan (hammer4reel) and I, attended the public meeting in south NJ along with a hundred or so other people, a few from this site. Based on data included in the ASMFC Draft Addendum XXVlll handout, specifically the two attached charts addressing Recruitment (egg reproduction) and Catch (2nd and 3rd charts), I put together a data table to analyze trends over the last 20 - 30 years. A portion of that data table is reflected in the first chart which includes Recruitment, Total Catch (recreational and commercial combined), Spawning Stock Biomass (SSB) and Recreational Size Limits.

Years covered are 1982 thru 2015. Numbers are rounded but representative of the data NMFS and ASMFC are basing their regulatory decisions on. The recruitment numbers are in thousands so for example in 1982, 61,000 is actually 61,000,000. PLEASE review the trends for each category in the first chart and it tells the entire story. Compare 1982 to 2015 individual years if you want the Reader's Digest version of whats happened. Egg reproduction was approximately 61,000,000 in '82 vs approximately 23,000,000 in '15. Catch 25,000 metric tons in '82 vs. 7,500 in '15. SSB (biomass) 24,000 metric tons in '82 vs. 36,250 in '15, an almost 50% increase. Also note the biomass was as high as 50,000 metric tons in 2002 and has been decreasing ever since. Size limit '82, there wasn't one compared to 18" in '15. Since NY/NJ combined harvest makes up about 85% of the annual fluke harvest, I used the weighted average of just those two states to arrive at average regulatory size limits each year.

The most significant relationship in the analysis which should be the primary focus of NMFS and ASMFC is egg reproduction decreasing from 61 million to 23 million from '82 to '15 while the biomass increased from 24,000 metric tons to 36,250 metric tons. Keep in mind again it reached a high of 50,000 metric tons in 2002. While the biomass exploded upward, egg reproduction fell off the cliff. That's a relational statistic that should jump out at everyone and be the single most important issue fisheries management is focused on. In reality, it doesn't appear to even be on their radar screen. You'll notice egg reproduction started tanking when size limits approached 17", the cross over point in Rutgers "Size and Sex Study" when 90% - 95% of all fluke at or over that size are females. Coincidence, not a chance.

Reason I bring this up is based on the two options Detour66 posted. In my opinion, there's really only one option, 3 @ 16.5". Option 2, 2 @18"-21" and a special bonus tag for one over 21" will only intensify the pressure on female fluke and kill Party and Charter boat businesses. NMFS and ASMFC have their heads in the sand if these are truly the options they're considering. Any option which doesn't address the decline in egg reproduction shouldn't even be considered. AND until commercial harvest during the spawn is addressed, the current state of the fishery won't improve. I'm not suggesting commercial quotas be cut, they should be reallocated to times of the year that won't coincide with and disrupt the spawn. For a fishery supposedly spiraling downward as much as this one to allow commercial harvest during the primary spawn without understanding the consequences on egg reproduction which is off approximately 75% - 80% from historical highs is inexplicable and essentially gross negligence by NMFS and ASMFC.

[Billfish715]

Dakota, I posted this on a previous thread about the price of supermarket fluke and I agree with your conclusion regarding the targeting of spawning fluke during times when those fish are very susceptible to commercial dragging. The migration routes to and from those spawning areas near the continental shelf are well-known and documented thereby making the spawning females extremely vulnerable and exploitable.

Many members and lurkers on this board are too young to remember seeing the party boat fluke fleets fishing just off the beaches along Monmouth and Ocean Counties. Patrons on those boats were seldom disappointed when they went home. They had fresh fillets for dinner. The fish were small by today's "standards" yet there were always fluke to be caught and kept and there was no controversy or overdone intervention. Then, the regulations began to appear and the size limits kept increasing. From that point on, the fear of the "sky falling" took over. More and more mature female fluke were being taken because of the increased size limits and eventually the smaller fluke that were so plentiful along the beaches began to dwindle. With that, the party boat fleet and bait shops and the tackle industry noticeably also began to wane and disappear. Did the increased size limits have an adverse affect on the spawning stocks? Maybe, but most of the larger females (even today) are offshore and on snags and rough bottom where most party boats (back in the day) did not fish. Recreational fishermen were satisfied with the smaller, meal-sized fluke along the beaches. Now, except for the Sandy Hook and Raritan Bay fluke fishing, most of the boats from the southern inlets have to fish well offshore to have a chance at a few keepers. Lately, even some of us who fish out of the northern end of Monmouth County head to deeper water to satisfy our limit catches rather than tossing back countless undersized fluke. How many undersized fluke did everyone throw back last year? I'll bet the numbers would floor you.

This was only a theory, but it should be considered. We let them go in the rivers. We let them go in the bays. We let them go along the beaches. We release thousands and thousands of consumable fluke each year. Where do our released fluke end up? Hmmmm?

https://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/pdf/..._quota2019.pdf

https://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/comquotas.htm

The new commercial regs for fluke landings seems to have been reduced for 2019 by about 70,000 pounds (if I'm reading the letter correctly). What stands out, though, is the total allotted pounds of commercially landed fluke for the months of January and February and September and October. The quotas are drastically increased during the months when fluke are either on their spawning grounds or massing during their migration to those spawning grounds. The commercial boats may land 1500 pounds of fluke per week during those periods. The commercial limits are encouraging fishing for the spawning stocks which will eventually hurt everyone's future fishing potential including those of the commercial guys. Wake Up! I could be wrong, but I'll bet the wholesale price of fluke increases substantially during the same period. If so, the stimulus to catch more spawning fish is also substantially increased. Change the distribution of the quotas to put less pressure on the spawning fish.

[frugalfisherman]

How's this. 5 fish 17-20 inches. Anything over 20 goes back. That way you save the big breeder females. Only drawback no more pools.

Billfish I couldn't agree more with your comments. I firmly believe when you compare egg reproduction with size limit increases and plot it against Rutgers "Size and Sex Study" absolutely size increases played a major role in destroying egg reproduction by changing the gender composition of the biomass. The data, their data, supports that theory 100%.

When the season closes for recreational harvest in September, it should simultaneously close for commercial and be closed in October and November as well. From what I've read, the spawn is pretty much completed by the end of November. Again don't cut the commercial quota, re-allocate it throughout the year so it doesn't occur during the spawn. Close it for a minimum of 2 - 3 years and study the impact on egg reproduction. That's where the entire focus of NMFS and ASMFC needs to be. Of the thousands of fish released during the summer, how many do you actually think survive the commercial onslaught during the fall migration offshore. Numbers killed I suspect are significant. NMFS tracks hook and line mortality but has no idea what the mortality rate is with hygrading at sea since it's self reported by commercial operators. Anyone who disagrees, we're all entitled to our opinions but I find it impossible to believe operators whose livelihood depends on commercial fishing would steam 40, 50, 60 or more miles offshore and not harvest larger females which carry a 60-70% price premium back at the dock while tossing the smaller less valuable fluke back dead. NMFS has to come to grips with that problem. Offshore commercial harvest has been happening for years which others have pointed out, what's changed is the surge in demand for Sushi grade fluke (almost exclusively larger females) creating a retail price imbalance placing a target on the heads of larger female breeders. It's a game changer and killing the fishery three ways: disrupting the spawn, increasing dead discard of smaller fish while increasing the harvest of larger females. The options discussed for the last twenty years and for 2019 don't address any of these issues and it's a monumental mistake in the manner this fishery is being managed. An almost 70% decrease in egg reproduction over the last 25 years based on a significantly larger spawning stock biomass and someone help me understand how the options proposed for '19 or any prior year are addressing that problem.

Originally Posted by frugalfisherman

How's this. 5 fish 17-20 inches. Anything over 20 goes back. That way you save the big breeder females. Only drawback no more pools.

Frugal my opinion, 17"-20" are still primarily females and doesn't address the commercial problem. Look again at the first chart I posted in my earlier email. I'd propose as a start a slot as low as 14" - 15" with maybe one fish allowed over 15" with no upside limit. If commercial operators can harvest 14" fish, recreational anglers should be afforded the same opportunity. That would greatly help Party and Charter boats, wouldn't effect one fish tournaments and most important would start reducing the pressure on larger female fluke. It's a good start.

Fishery management still has to address the commercial side of this and in my opinion the way to do it involves two changes. Level the retail price differential for large and smaller fluke so that a 14" fluke brings equivalent value as a 23" fish. That would immediately eliminate the culling or dead discard problem. Once operators hit their daily quota, no one would drop their nets again if there's no incremental value to be gained. How you change the market price is beyond my pay grade but someone should be able to figure it out if the health of the fishery is what's at stake.

Second as I've said, close the spawn season for 2-3 years and conduct studies on the impact on egg reproduction. That's the only path to recovery. Remember when we had a 14" - 15.5" inch size limit with an 8 fish possession limit, the biomass increased to it's highest level on record in 2002. In addition, look at overall catch, it was almost double in 2002 compared to today. Check the chart I posted. Coincidence, again I don't believe so. That in itself should highlight the problem and be the basis of establishing a sound recovery plan which can be monitored and quantified.

[Gerry Zagorski]

Originally Posted by bulletbob

Ok, Understood.. then WHY the slot limit??.. I mean according to a few guys, the fishing is great, getting a limit of fish is no problem, then why not just keep the status quo??.. Seriously. If the fishing is that good, limits are no real problem, why change anything at all??.. must just be a lot of pretty poor unskilled anglers out there that just don't know what they're doing, [such as myself], or a lot of fluke fishermen that just like to complain, despite good fishing... bob

Slot fish regs are put in place for conservation not to increase the chances of someone being able to attain their limit. The smaller slot fish would allow people to fill their bag limit without forcing them to keep only keep 18" plus inch fluke, which for the most part are all females and breeders.

It's similar to the reasoning on Stripers where here in NJ your bonus tag used to be used for only larger fish and now it's for undersized fish...

http://www.27east.com/news/article.c...ass-Slot-Limit

[Gerry Zagorski]

Originally Posted by dakota560

Frugal my opinion, 17"-20" are still primarily females and doesn't address the commercial problem. Look again at the first chart I posted in my earlier email. I'd propose as a start a slot as low as 14" - 15" with maybe one fish allowed over 15" with no upside limit. If commercial operators can harvest 14" fish, recreational anglers should be afforded the same opportunity. That would greatly help Party and Charter boats, wouldn't effect one fish tournaments and most important would start reducing the pressure on larger female fluke. It's a good start.

Fishery management still has to address the commercial side of this and in my opinion the way to do it involves two changes. Level the retail price differential for large and smaller fluke so that a 14" fluke brings equivalent value as a 23" fish. That would immediately eliminate the culling or dead discard problem. Once operators hit their daily quota, no one would drop their nets again if there's no incremental value to be gained. How you change the market price is beyond my pay grade but someone should be able to figure it out if the health of the fishery is what's at stake.

Second as I've said, close the spawn season for 2-3 years and conduct studies on the impact on egg reproduction. That's the only path to recovery. Remember when we had a 14" - 15.5" inch size limit with an 8 fish possession limit, the biomass increased to it's highest level on record in 2002. In addition, look at overall catch, it was almost double in 2002 compared to today. Check the chart I posted. Coincidence, again I don't believe so. That in itself should highlight the problem and be the basis of establishing a sound recovery plan which can be monitored and quantified.

Lots of people concerned about the commercials being allowed to keep 14" Fluke when we're forced to take 18"...Why not let them fill their quota with 14 inch fish. If you make it 18 like us, what happens to all those 14 inch fish they catch in their nets? They'll wind up being dead discards and are wasted.