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  #21  
Old 10-04-2009, 07:27 AM
CaptTB CaptTB is offline
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Default Re: Meeting with Tony Bogan

Standing down at the boat this morning and then driving home after the boat just left I was thinking about this thread, the meeting we just had, the comments made and the responses I gave.

If my previous comments seem a bit harsh that's because I have personally reached a point where I no longer see the advantage to treating these topics with kid gloves. Sure, reasonable well thought out responses are important, but my emotion needs to start coming through just a bit more than it has in the past (those that know me and have heard me speak may find that hard to believe!)

Too long have I witnessed the apathy of fishermen and business owners (the party/charterboat sector has been it's own worst enemy for decades as has the tackle industry) and listened to the numerous reasons people have given to not get involved. Some legitimate, some just excuses.

To those who ask "what have "they" done for me?" My response is simple: Why are you asking me on a message board? Call them up and ask them yourself! Then, you can make your decision to support or not based on the information straight from the horse's mouth, not what you read on a message board on the internet. Find out what has been done and what is being done, then decide from there if this group or that group is worthy of your hard earned dollar.

Let me say this:

It is your dollar, you should spend it where you see fit and no one else can tell you where to spend it. We can tell you where we THINK you should spend it, but in the end it is, afterall, your dollar.

I have watched the same groups (several I mentioned previously like RFA and JCAA and UB) fight these fights for years. Sometimes we won, sometimes we lost, sometimes we simply fought a delaying action because that's what we could do. Sometimes the "victories" were losing less than we could have instead of "winning" something concrete.

These things were accomplished (or not accomplished in some cases) with but a fraction of a fraction of the anglers out there donating money and even fewer donating time. From my vantage point, one that has given me a front row view of the activities since the end of the 80's when the first bluefish meetings took place in Philadelphia where the 10 fish limit was set, I cannot help but think about what could have been accomplished if we had even 1% of the anglers in this country joining up and donating money.

That's right, less than 1% are actually involved. If a NJ group had even 10% of the anglers just in the state of NJ as members they'd have triple or quadruple the number of members they currently have FROM THE ENTIRE COUNTRY!

To me those numbers speak VOLUMES as to what has been accomplished with so little support.

That is where my comments come from. From my first hand experience of the devotion of some, and the apathy of MILLIONS.

So, please take my comments for what they are worth, nothing more than my personal experience and opinion being expressed the only way I know how.

Truthfully.
  #22  
Old 10-04-2009, 08:03 AM
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Reelron Reelron is offline
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Default Re: Meeting with Tony Bogan

I was trying to stay out of this one but I have to say this, even it is a little redundant.

It is kind of like living in a town with a low crime rate and having someone say, "Why do we need a Police Department? We don't have any crime." You can't explain to them that there is no way to measure what could have been if the police weren't there.

I left the RFA a few years ago, for personel reasons and I was reluctant to supposrt the SSFFF as I believed there were other organizations fighting the same fisht. However, over the past two years I have come to realize that both of these organizations are doing what needs to be done and I have "come back into the fold" so to speak. I have attended recent meetings and I have seen the lack of attendence on the part of individual anglers and I have learned that we need these groups, the JCAA and the NJOA,to stand up and make it clear that they speak for thousands of angry anglers, not just hundreds.

Quite honestly, I think these threads just are a diversion from the task at hand, let's get on with it gentlemen!
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  #23  
Old 10-04-2009, 08:55 AM
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howarda780 howarda780 is offline
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Default Re: Meeting with Tony Bogan

The Pareto Principle:

20% of the people do 80% of the work.
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  #24  
Old 10-04-2009, 09:16 AM
dales529 dales529 is offline
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Default Re: Meeting with Tony Bogan

Quote:
Originally Posted by sportfishingusa
Really appreciate all the hard work guys... unfortunatley until something good comes out of any of these lobbyists and other groups i will keep my money in my pocket!!

i have a ton of respect for everyone really trying but not gonig to dump my money into someone elses pocket and reep no benefits..

The long run and the long term is a good sign... but nothing has been done in the present..

dont take this the wrong way i am not being a DOU$#E just want to put my mind into the discussion..

and shrimpy... yo know where i stnd and i still luv ya buddy!!
oh and people biotch about the government burning money like it is giong out of style.. how much money has the RFA taken from the public? wish i was an attorrney or lobbysist because i would sure as shizzle be on their payroll if i could!!
Sport,
You are entitled to your opinion and most certainly entitled to do what you want with your money. Having fished with you and shared information etc in posts I have to admit this post took me by suprise.
I have to call you out on this, its exactly the reason we called the meeting , the first of many I hope to become more educated about these groups and the "systems" they work under. YOU have already reaped benefits. Where did you come up with your information???? You are welcome to attend the next meeting but please have some "facts" to back up your statements. Otherwise congratulations on your membership in the do NOTHING club, just wish your club would do exactly that NOTHING rather than detract from the cause.

Seriously nothing personal here and I respect your right to an opinion but I hope you are called out on this by hundreds of fishermen who YOU will reap benefits from on OUR dime.
  #25  
Old 10-04-2009, 09:32 AM
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cool hand fluke cool hand fluke is offline
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Default Re: Meeting with Tony Bogan

Capt TB and Others who met Friday night:

Thank you for representing OUR interests. I am willing to help spread the message and attend next meeting(s) and do volunteer work in whatever capacity I can help as things develop.

Leif:

Thanks for the link to the SSFFF - I just donated using the electronic link option - very EASY to use....I also appreciate your updates helping inform us on the issues.

I look forward to working with all of my fellow anglers! Al
  #26  
Old 10-04-2009, 09:42 AM
sportfishingusa sportfishingusa is offline
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Default Re: Meeting with Tony Bogan

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptTB
LAB, that's an easy answer. You have 1 or 2 bluefin per boat...... instead of ZERO for the past ten years.

You have had some of the best Fluke regs in the NE for the past 5 years, instead of next to nothing.

I guess my point is that United Boatmen, RFA, JCAA and a handful of individuals have been fighting this fight for years. Had these people and groups not been there you have no idea how bad things would be right now. We defeated paybacks for YEARS. You would cringe at the things that the enviros wanted in the MSA that they successfully argued to have removed.

The list goes on, but I refuse to get into a "what have you done for me lately" argument. (not that you were arguing LAB)

I guess the way I look at it is for the past decade we have all collectively worked our asses off fighting to stay in business, to get some fair shakes, to stop the a holes from simply taking over.

What exactly has sportfishingusa done?

And, who would you rather support........him? Or, those who have actually been fighting without any help from him?

I am picking on him on purpose since he gave the same old standard excuse not to do anything that I have heard for years. I think he copied and pasted it from threads I read on sites that don't even exist anymore. If I had a dime for every time someone used that one as a justification not to do anything I wouldn't need to do this, I'd have plenty of cash! I do understand what he means, I just don't agree with the sentiment to do nothing because those fighting the fight haven't achieved something he deems worthy, when he hasn't bothered to fight the fight himself and never considered what things would be like if there hadn't been a fight all these years.

That's all, it is not personal, and I mean that sportfishingusa. You are not guilty of anything that a million other guys haven't already done...... nothing.

Please do not take this as a personal attack, I am merely pointing out what has been happening since day one and reacting to the fact that it still goes on.

do not take it personal at all. I have donated and know many who have and still do donate and join specific groups, jcaa,rfa, ssfff, and others alike.

I am not BASHING ANYONE... (i do hope sal cursi chokes and dies on a pretzel at a meeting) but i appreciate everything everyone has done.. I read the news and get e-newsletters and see what is going on..

But i have also called and asked for a breakdown on the money.. i dont really care who gets lined or uses the money.. but i want to know where it is all going.

Is it my business? not really.. but as a supporter and them being a 501 non profit i would assume it would be public knowledge but i have not seen anything available..

I see the bluefin situation.. 1-2 per boat instead of zero.. but if it was zero for a while what would it be in the next 2-3 years? 3-5 a boat.... or still stay at zero?

The squeeze they are putting on the rec guys and the party/charter boats is hurting everyone and it is not good... But we need to choose our fights.. I think that the limits are somewhat crazy but i also somewhat agreee and dont find that sending 10000 letters is going to do anything.. i do think that proving them scientifically wrong would be the answer... And i think that is another way to start..
  #27  
Old 10-04-2009, 09:47 AM
sportfishingusa sportfishingusa is offline
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Default Re: Meeting with Tony Bogan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Life's A Beach
I understand what you're saying sportfishing but sometimes you gotta trust someone. I was asked today "why should I trust RFA when they've been around for 15 years and what have WE gotten FOR US in that time.........fluke limits get tougher with shorter seasons and smaller limits every year, sea bass limits/size tougher...............flounder GONE." I wish I had the answer for that person but I don't.


thanks for understanding lab.. im not being a complete a$$ and trust me i want to trust and support.. but i did not even know about the meeting last week until i got a call to chat and someone said they were going over there..

It was not public and i did not know about it.. i am all for helping and changing the direction these "bird brain" scientists and legislatures are sending us and i got time to fight, money to donate, and the drive to make a different.. BUT I WANT TO DO IT... i dont trust a lot... but i would rather be a part of it without sending tons of money..

I could send my money to www.moneypit.com and i would feel the same way..I AM NOT SAYING THEY ARE MONEY PITS but just sending money does not make me feel that it is helping.. i would rather HELP!!
  #28  
Old 10-04-2009, 10:14 AM
CaptTB CaptTB is offline
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Default Re: Meeting with Tony Bogan

Quote:
Originally Posted by sportfishingusa
do not take it personal at all. I have donated and know many who have and still do donate and join specific groups, jcaa,rfa, ssfff, and others alike.

I am not BASHING ANYONE... (i do hope sal cursi chokes and dies on a pretzel at a meeting) but i appreciate everything everyone has done.. I read the news and get e-newsletters and see what is going on..

But i have also called and asked for a breakdown on the money.. i dont really care who gets lined or uses the money.. but i want to know where it is all going.

Is it my business? not really.. but as a supporter and them being a 501 non profit i would assume it would be public knowledge but i have not seen anything available..

I see the bluefin situation.. 1-2 per boat instead of zero.. but if it was zero for a while what would it be in the next 2-3 years? 3-5 a boat.... or still stay at zero?

The squeeze they are putting on the rec guys and the party/charter boats is hurting everyone and it is not good... But we need to choose our fights.. I think that the limits are somewhat crazy but i also somewhat agreee and dont find that sending 10000 letters is going to do anything.. i do think that proving them scientifically wrong would be the answer... And i think that is another way to start..
Thanks, I really was not trying to start $hit. My second post (the one I had hoped you would quote) was to try and give you and others a better understanding of where I am coming from.

Hopefully, I succeeded.

Thanks again for your response.
  #29  
Old 10-04-2009, 11:41 AM
sportfishingusa sportfishingusa is offline
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Default Re: Meeting with Tony Bogan

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptTB
Thanks, I really was not trying to start $hit. My second post (the one I had hoped you would quote) was to try and give you and others a better understanding of where I am coming from.

Hopefully, I succeeded.

Thanks again for your response.

tony,

you have always come across straight and foward to me and i completeluy understand 100 percent.. i would love to be more active in the process along with yourself and any others... i would also like to speak with you in depth and understand a little more of the issues at hand that you are speaking of and also speak about the solutions we can come up with!

if you get the time and can pm me your number or maybe a time we can meet and chat it would be great... i am very local to you and i am more then willing to jump on board!

like i said.. sending money to me is not the solution.. it helps.. but i am more about being hands on and look foward to what we could possibly do TOGETHER in the future coming!

thanks again tony for being so level headed and understanding what each of us feel and taking that into consideration with each and every answer you have posted!!

internet forumns are great forinformation but are no way the best form of communicated such important intel!

Thanks again tony and i look foward to meeting you some time in the near future as i have not seen or fished with you for a long long time.
  #30  
Old 10-04-2009, 12:25 PM
PBangler PBangler is offline
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Thumbs up Re: Meeting with Tony Bogan

Hi all … my husband Don & I are long time supporters of the party boat industry as well as readers of this terrific website. I decided to put my past differences aside with the RFA and just rejoined, thanks to reading many of the posts within this thread. Rejoining was easy with PayPal and a $35 fee to join for a year was minimal compared to what we spend on fishing per year.

Money is always important, but as was already stated “the number of memberships” in your organization is also important when going to Washington to lobby. It’s not about which administration is in office, because the last reauthorization of the Magnuson Stevens Act (MSA) took place in 2006 under a Republican President, with both chambers of Congress having a Republican majority.

It is the result of huge amounts of monies spent by environmental groups to convince the masses in this country, no matter which side of the aisle, the sky is falling with all of our fisheries. Some of the new laws under the latest reauthorization of the MSA, intended to micro-manage both commercial and recreational fishing, will ultimately lead to the destruction of the small mom & pop industries within both sectors, changing out precious few remaining “seaport” waterfront landscapes forever.

I for one love eating at the Shrimp Box and looking at all the boats, both commercial and recreational surrounding it. How sad it would be if it all were replaced with waterfront condos. This is not a Jersey nor a Black Sea Bass closure problem, but a small taste of a nationwide tsunami about to hit our coastlines. It needs to be stopped now and it will take a nationwide organization to get it done. To me the RFA fits the bill.

I’ll get off the soapbox now – thanks for listening and more importantly thanks for starting the momentum going!

Kathy
 


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