No Kill Trout Stretches

[Billfish715]

The biggest reason why so many trout are stocked into the TCA's and No-Kills is simple, in my opinion. It's where they were always stocked and no one was ever challenged about the logic of stocking more and more trout into rivers where no trout are taken out. So why, Fish and Game Council members, are you allowing so many trout to be stocked on top of each other in places where they will never be harvested? Stop the weekly trout stocking in those streams.

Besides that issue, I'm being told that even though I pay the same for my license as anyone else, I am not privileged enough to fish in those special areas because I don't fish like the fishermen who fish there. What do the Fish and Game Council members have against the way I fish? Again, if the council members want to protect any percentage of New Jersey's trout streams for a select group of anglers and prohibit the rest of us from fishing there because we are different, they should resign immediately. Or, another option would be to charge a user fee or special license to fish there.

This discussion can go on and on, but the average fishermen need to speak up loudly for change before we are regulated to the point where no one fishes anymore.

[FASTEDDIE29]

Originally Posted by Billfish715

The biggest reason why so many trout are stocked into the TCA's and No-Kills is simple, in my opinion. It's where they were always stocked and no one was ever challenged about the logic of stocking more and more trout into rivers where no trout are taken out. So why, Fish and Game Council members, are you allowing so many trout to be stocked on top of each other in places where they will never be harvested? Stop the weekly trout stocking in those streams.

Besides that issue, I'm being told that even though I pay the same for my license as anyone else, I am not privileged enough to fish in those special areas because I don't fish like the fishermen who fish there. What do the Fish and Game Council members have against the way I fish? Again, if the council members want to protect any percentage of New Jersey's trout streams for a select group of anglers and prohibit the rest of us from fishing there because we are different, they should resign immediately. Or, another option would be to charge a user fee or special license to fish there.

This discussion can go on and on, but the average fishermen need to speak up loudly for change before we are regulated to the point where no one fishes anymore.

The word “segregation” comes to mind when I think about Trout fishing in NJ! Strong word, I know, but suitable I think. Hopefully you’ll get clarity out of this buddy. I’m sure there’s a lot of anglers looking for answers including myself.

Maybe they stock those TCA’s because they know fish simply die or fly over a set of falls. I’m really not sure. I personally haven’t fished a TCA in years. I’ll tell ya though. Once those club fish make there way down stream they’re fair game. Lol!!

[Dave B.]

I can't speak to the KLG but the reason given for the continued regular stockings on the Flatbrook No-Kill stretch is to be able to determine if the reg change is having the desired effect of increasing holdover.
They did several consecutive years of electro-fishing on that stream section prior to the reg change. In order to be able to compare 'apples-to-apples' it makes sense to continue stocking the same numbers and frequency for several years after the reg change while also performing electro-fishing studies each year to determine if the 'No-kill' reg is allowing for an increase in holdover or if the water body had already been stabilizing itself at its carrying capacity before the reg change.
Believe me I questioned what the stocking regimen would be 'if' the reg change were enacted well over a year prior to its passing.

Bear in mind the Flatbrook is a very different situation than the gorge. The KLG had been a year-round TCA with very limited take prior to the change to 'No-kill' whereas the Flatbrook, although being Fly Fishing Only, still allowed for bagging a full limit of fish. Also the Flatbrook FFO section allowed all=tackle angling for the first 9 days of the season except for the Blewitt Tract. Bottom line, a LOT of trout were kept from the Flatbrook prior to the reg change, so it made sense to follow the same stocking regimen for some time afterwards to try to determine what if any positive affects the change produced.

Personally I give them 5 years after the reg change to determine whether or not the change has had any positive affects on the holdover population. This is to allow for the un-controllable variables of weather from year to year. If after that amount of time the study results show little to no viable increase in holdover then I believe the stocking numbers should be gradually reduced each year until electro-fishing and angler observations indicate a clear drop in holdover, then bump it back up a bit and hold the numbers/frequency there.

[Billfish715]

I remember quite emotionally fishing in the Big Flatbrook when I was a youngster. My uncle would take me there on several fishing trips each spring. We fished during the early season before the fly fishing only regulations went into effect and I loved every minute of my time in that wooded wonderland. It was and still is a trout fishing Paradise. I cut my trout fishing teeth while fishing on the exotic Rahway River in Cranford so you can only imagine how I felt when I stepped into the pristinely, magically clear water of the Big Flatbrook. That feeling is being denied to almost any youngster today because of the "study" being conducted. It will be a tragedy to lose a generation of youngsters who will never have the opportunity to experience what I was exposed to when I was little.

It's interesting to note just how cynical I have become since the new regulations have been instituted. I didn't mind foregoing the rest of the trout season on the Flatbrook or the Gorge to the fly fishing guys because I was able to partake in the beauty and charm of fishing there even if it was for a few days. Now, I'm shut out unless I conform.

[Drossi]

You guys whine a lot. Use fly gear and its problem solved. Or use spinners in the TCA. Again problem solved. And using the kid excuse is lame, I could fish a panther Martin at 5 years old, my son was the same. This argument is like me bitching about the state using my license $ for stocking walleye. Since I don't have a boat or access to one I have no way to fish for them.

[baetis]

Dave B:

Any data yet from the Flatbrook electro-shock studies?

[Chrisper4694]

Originally Posted by Drossi

You guys whine a lot. Use fly gear and its problem solved. Or use spinners in the TCA. Again problem solved. And using the kid excuse is lame, I could fish a panther Martin at 5 years old, my son was the same. This argument is like me bitching about the state using my license $ for stocking walleye. Since I don't have a boat or access to one I have no way to fish for them.

this entire issue is because fly fisherman bitched and whined for years at the state meetings, so don't even go there...

the rest of us wondering why we are being over regulated based, not on scientific studies, but the opinions of a few elitists is def not whining in my book.

[Billfish715]

Originally Posted by Drossi

You guys whine a lot. Use fly gear and its problem solved. Or use spinners in the TCA. Again problem solved. And using the kid excuse is lame, I could fish a panther Martin at 5 years old, my son was the same. This argument is like me bitching about the state using my license $ for stocking walleye. Since I don't have a boat or access to one I have no way to fish for them.

It's hardly a whine. It's the same response that would come from a fly fisherman or spinning rod user when the regulations insist that THEY may NOT use that gear wherever they want. I have never objected to a shared use of the restricted areas. Just let me have access to those same stretches at some time during the year. There are times when I use my fly rod or cast spinners or plugs for trout but that is my choice. I surely don't want to be forced to fish in a way that someone else wants me to fish.

True, this might not be an issue if we all had a chance to fish in those restricted zones at some time.

As for the license issue and the walleyes .........if you want to fish for fish other than trout, you don't have to buy a trout stamp. Trout stamps help pay for the trout stocking program.

Finally, as for talking about kids as a lame excuse, there are many kids who don't have a parent who will teach them how to fish. My father was not a fisherman and had it not been for my uncle's love for the sport and his willingness to teach me about fishing, I never would have developed the love I have for it now, so,so many years later.

[meppsman]

to clear up the TCA question , there are 2 types: seasonal and year round . The year rounds are not restocked weekly but, once pre season and 3 times in season. They are stocked again one time in the fall. The seasonal TCAs are stocked every week during in season stocking and there are no special rules until the final two weeks of the stocking schedule. The regulations of 1 fish of 15 inches or more do not take effect until the last two weeks of the stocking schedule. The KLG is no kill, it receives 2700 trout in the spring as compared to 40,700 for the rest of the south branch. The KLG is about 2.5 miles. The remainder of the South Branch is probably close to 40 miles of stocked water. So in reality the concentration of stocked fish is about the same, about 1000 per mile. The TCAS were created to give fisherman a greater chance to catch fish year round. They are not fly fishing only, you just cant use bait. I spin fish in them all the time and never had a problem from anybody.

[Bruce Litton]

Originally Posted by Billfish715

I remember quite emotionally fishing in the Big Flatbrook when I was a youngster. My uncle would take me there on several fishing trips each spring. We fished during the early season before the fly fishing only regulations went into effect and I loved every minute of my time in that wooded wonderland. It was and still is a trout fishing Paradise. I cut my trout fishing teeth while fishing on the exotic Rahway River in Cranford so you can only imagine how I felt when I stepped into the pristinely, magically clear water of the Big Flatbrook. That feeling is being denied to almost any youngster today because of the "study" being conducted. It will be a tragedy to lose a generation of youngsters who will never have the opportunity to experience what I was exposed to when I was little.

It's interesting to note just how cynical I have become since the new regulations have been instituted. I didn't mind foregoing the rest of the trout season on the Flatbrook or the Gorge to the fly fishing guys because I was able to partake in the beauty and charm of fishing there even if it was for a few days. Now, I'm shut out unless I conform.

I'm not taking a position pro or con, but I like this from Billfish. Back in 1972, for my special birthday trip in October, my family drove from near Trenton to the Flatbrook, by my request, for me to fish. I owned a fly rod and might have used it, don't remember. I was 12, and I have no idea how I learned about the Flatbrook. My father didn't fish and apparently had no knowledge of Sussex County. Going there was by my request. So naturally, I took my son there many years later, when he was about eight, and we came upon, on a cool July day, rainbows galore. I had bought him a fly rod; he used it, and what touched me most wasn't the rainbows, though that was a close second; they were beautiful in that clear water. Rather, Matt's authority at his casting simply came out of the natural setting. I could hardly believe how deft he became by no practice, though he had cast before, but by just breathing freely. I got a photograph of him too precious to post, catching attentiveness and poise with the fly rod ever so subtle.