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  #1  
Old 07-14-2019, 08:45 PM
dakota560 dakota560 is offline
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Default Fishery Management

This isn't a fishing report so will probably be deleted. Before it does, wanted to say a few words to the board. First Honger you're a disgusting individual and poor excuse for a human being. Inappropriate ethnic slurs have no place on this site or anywhere else. You're what's known as an "Oxygen Thief" (look it up), world would be a better place without morons like you in it. Glad to see Gerry or Joe deleted your misguided posts about Asians, hopefully one of them banned you from the site as well.

There was a time when fishery management and regulations were considered worthy topics on this site. Those times no longer exist. Hundreds and thousands of views without comment or replies, most members today could care less about the behind the scenes maneuvering that's taking place in Washington which is literally stealing every fishery from recreational anglers and risking party boat and for-hire operators of their livelihoods along with the livelihoods of many businesses dependent on this industry. Sad that what basically amounts to one of the best recreational fishing sites available can't generate enough enthusiasm or interest to understand what's happening within our fisheries or figure out how to get involved in trying to cause change. When you work effortlessly for everyone's benefits and those efforts are questioned or largely ignored, it's time to reconsider if that effort is worth it.

Remember the following, words to live your life by. "What you do makes a difference, and each of you have to decide what difference you want to make". One person has the ability to make a positive impact, and everyone should at minimum try".

Hope there's plenty of reports for members to read since that seems to be the singular focus of this forum these days. Information exchange went out the window some time ago. Sad to see, in my humble opinion it takes away from what made this such a great site.

Last edited by dakota560; 07-14-2019 at 08:54 PM..
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  #2  
Old 07-14-2019, 10:06 PM
Brewlugger Brewlugger is offline
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Default Re: Fishery Management

It's a worthy topic my friend. I hope I'm not in the minority here but I appreciate you fighting the good fight.
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  #3  
Old 07-15-2019, 05:15 AM
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1captainron 1captainron is offline
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Default Re: Fishery Management

Sad but True Tom.


Most people on these sites have No skin in the game other than the fact, they own a boat. It's not their lively hood, it's their pass time which could become Golf or anything else for that matter should fishing suddenly go away.

Support? I learned about that the second time going to Washington, it was embarrassing only 3 busses from NJ, more folks came from Florida.

I also realized that this year after all the years of paying our dues on the Fluke size & numbers that when the quota numbers were up, we got NOTHING! Not a 1/2 inch smaller fish, more fish, bonus fish or longer season then the commercial end gets 40% more of the quota!!


Blood pressure is too high anymore, I do give a shit but not going to drop dead over it anymore. So in the end "They Have Won" Congratulations NOAA, hope you are proud.
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  #4  
Old 07-15-2019, 08:01 AM
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Default Re: Fishery Management

Tom

Thank you for everything you do and the countless hours you put in breaking down the data to explain it in its simplest form for people like me to understand. Most people just dont like to help and just go on about there daily lives and could give 2 craps but some of us do care and appreciate all you do . Also you cant fix stupid

Capt. Ron I cant blame you one bit

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  #5  
Old 07-15-2019, 08:07 AM
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Default Re: Fishery Management

At the first rally in DC I honestly thought we could make a difference. It was well attended by fishermen from all over, even Alaska! At the second rally it was sad. The enthusiasm from the first rally was gone. It was a pathetic showing by a few and that is when I realized we were screwed!

So many people fish but, so few want to get involved and fight for our right to fish and manage our fishery properly. Dakota you are one of the good guys and I appreciate all of the selfless work you have done to date. Thank you.
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  #6  
Old 07-15-2019, 08:25 AM
bhackemup bhackemup is offline
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Default Re: Fishery Management

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1captainron View Post
Sad but True Tom.


Most people on these sites have No skin in the game other than the fact, they own a boat. It's not their lively hood, it's their pass time which could become Golf or anything else for that matter should fishing suddenly go away.

Support? I learned about that the second time going to Washington, it was embarrassing only 3 busses from NJ, more folks came from Florida.

I also realized that this year after all the years of paying our dues on the Fluke size & numbers that when the quota numbers were up, we got NOTHING! Not a 1/2 inch smaller fish, more fish, bonus fish or longer season then the commercial end gets 40% more of the quota!!


Blood pressure is too high anymore, I do give a shit but not going to drop dead over it anymore. So in the end "They Have Won" Congratulations NOAA, hope you are proud.
I have a good friend who fought the "Fish Nazis" for years and suffered a stroke in the process. The Gov. guy, who he fought with most called him to say, not how are you but< "Maybe you should not have fought us so hard."
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Old 07-15-2019, 09:23 AM
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hammer4reel hammer4reel is offline
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Default Re: Fishery Management

Problem is guys wonít step up until itís too late.
And the ones that lively hood depend on it donít even show up .

Only way it can ever change is is LOTS , more people show up.
Just donating money to small organizations isnít whatís needed.
Over flowing. Meeting halls is where it is needed.


All the guys catching shorts need to know they are getting charged for 33 % of those throw backs in the quota .
So if you caught 10 shorts you limited out without a fish going home.

.
INSANITY is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

Time to put effort into forcing NMFS into changing current policy that is ruining our fisheries.
Species arenít being lost to over fishing, they are being lost to improper management.

.
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  #8  
Old 07-15-2019, 09:37 AM
dakota560 dakota560 is offline
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Default Re: Fishery Management

Brewlugger, Capt Ron, GDubs, Rocky I appreciate your responses but it makes my point at the same time. So few willing to try yet so many willing to complain.

I'm not looking for accolades, I'm hoping to make a difference in my life and in this particular case with the summer flounder fishery. I've been fortunate to be introduced by Gerry to a number of people involved in the industry over the last three years and have been more fortunate to be mentored by Dave (Dales529) who is a wealth of knowledge and good friend. He's given me a good understanding of the process, great guidance and support every step of the way.

This battle will be won in my opinion in one way and one way only.......through using NOAA's / NMFS's / ASMFC's own data to point out inconsistencies and changes in historical relationships over the years which either make no sense or are trending in the wrong direction based on policy decisions made over those same time frames. In other words, identify what changed when the fishery started it's decline in the early 2000's and compare those attributes to the 600% growth we experienced in the biomass between 1989 - 2002 and the answer will reveal itself. In my opinion it has. Instead of simply reducing catch by tonnage (metric tons), fisheries management instead attempted to reduce catch by increasing size limits for recreational anglers which caused a series of unintended consequences to the spawning biomass destroying recruitment in the process. It also allowed commercial operators to improve the value of their catch by harvesting the fish recreational anglers are now discarding, killing younger age fish in the process which in the 80's and 90's were the age fish being commercially harvested and brought to market. The regulations are killing this fishery for anyone who wants to understand the big picture.

I recently emailed a 16-page document to the Chair of the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Council "ASMFC", Chair of the Scientific and Statistical Committee "SSC" (advisory board for policy decisions to the ASMFC) and Mark Terceiro who is the lead scientist for the Summer Flounder stock. Anyone interested in the email or analysis sent, pm me your email address and I'd be more than happy to share the document with you. Document will be included in the materials handed out to Council Members at the upcoming September meeting this year. Content of the draft was to identify changes in historical relationships within this fishery over the last thirty-years in an effort to focus fisheries management on the issues hurting the fishery and policy decisions which in my opinion have led to it's decline. Fact based analysis using their own data. Michael Waine, newly appointed Atlantic Fisheries Policy Director for American Sportfishing Association "ASA", John DePersenaire Fisheries Policy & Science Researcher Recreational Fishing Alliance "RFA" and others have also been involved in this process which will eventually fan out to include all Council Board Members, SSC Board Members and state representatives. Word and knowledge of these facts needs to be disseminated to the bodies responsible for the management and fair allocation of the resource.

Case in point. Currently reviewing the 66th Stock Assessment Workshop "SAW" full report. In the 57th SAW, number of fish making up the biomass in 2002 was estimated at approximately 131 million fish. As most are aware, recreational anglers were penalized in 2019's regulations for significantly higher historical catch levels based on the new method of collecting data under the Marine Recreational Information Program "MRIP". Recreational catch under the old method in 2002 was 11,854 metric tons, that number increased to 16,473 metric tons for the same year under the new method of capturing data under MRIP. That's 4,619 metric tons more or over 10 million pounds of summer flounder the recreational community is being assessed with catching, a majority of that catch if you can believe it coming from shore based catches, not boats. At the same time, recruitment for 2002 now show an increase between the two consecutive Stock Assessments of approximately 13 million new fish yet the overall population in the biomass in the latest assessment shows an increase from 131 million fish to 174 million, 42 million more. That's a mathematical impossibility but as discussed previously in other threads all based on "best available science" and revised reference points being used in models. Policy decisions are being made on statistical data which is being materially changed within consecutive stock assessments. In the latest SAW, recreational catch levels for the last eight years, 2010 - 2017, were increased collectively by almost 40,000 metric tons, approximately 5 million metric tons a year on average or in excess of 10 million lbs of fish per year, a majority of which were supposedly caught from shore. In the survey forms I've been able to find, there's not one question about number of fish caught. It's all based on "Fishing Effort" and an algorithm which somehow converts "Fishing Effort" into catch. Have no idea how it ultimately translates to catch statistics but to have that degree of margin of error in two consecutive Stock Assessments is cause for concern. Statistically speaking, it's completely outside confidence and margins of error percentages in any sampling I've been involved with in my career. That's just one example of changes in historical relationships or inconsistencies in data which are ultimately dictating our fate regarding access rights to this fishery and a fair allocation of the resource. Changes and inconsistencies which need to be challenged and deserving of an answer from fishery management based on facts, not anecdotal arguments.

Enough said, I'll continue to face the challenge with the few who have dedicated their time as well in doing so. If we're successful, everyone can read about it in industry publications, won't waste more of anyone's time here for those only interested in fishing reports as opposed to the overall health of the fishery and the regulations that decide that health which ironically produce those reports.

Last edited by dakota560; 07-15-2019 at 12:29 PM..
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  #9  
Old 07-15-2019, 11:06 AM
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laketrout laketrout is offline
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Default Re: Fishery Management

Dakota,

Good read and thank you for all your knowledge and hard work. I hope something changes.

I am also very discouraged and at a loss of what to think about the future. I am also saddened and frustrated that the NJ fisherman seem unaware of the root cause of the fluke collapse. Water temperature and global warming are not the damn cause of the the fluke collapse in the NY bright area. Itís nothing more than interference and static blurring the real cause of this catastrophe.
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  #10  
Old 07-15-2019, 12:14 PM
bunker dunker bunker dunker is online now
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Default Re: Fishery Management

this is were i have a problem with folks saying "they don't care".lets just say they do care but are tried of fighting for 40 years and not seeing anything go their way.i see other states were a certain fish is in decline and they close the season only to open it again when the stocks are back up.how come not in new jersey????how about all the giant tackle companies,were is there donations or support.our senators and congress peeps always say"we hear and understand"
but we never hear or see any change.as some on this site will say this is a negative respone. it is not,it is only showing the reality of what is real.
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