The charter/party industry...
 

You can curse me, bash me, do anything you want to me but i am going to bring it up because i continue to notice it.


Why does the charter business continue to grow the wrong way? lower fares. I am an a completely different businesses and i see it happening in all industries, but the charter and fishing industry is the worst.

Could you imagine if everyone got together and made a standard price across the board? or is everyone a little to worried about their abilities to do so?

I see some boats popping up and in the industry getting less then 100 bucks a head for a full long long day, my question is WHY?

When it comes down to numbers and dollars and cents, you are not making any money. The charter business is hard enough yet we are paying 750 a day down here compared to over 1000 bucks a day else where.

I have no problem doing both, of course i would fish less paying 1000 a day, but why can not one boat around here get that much, or atleast 900 a day? the real reason is because there will be someone out there doing it for 100 for the same day, people do not look at numbers enough to realize that they are losing money.

I am just not understanding the logic behind it, getting into business now a days and not looking to optimize your profit potential, instead just make nothing and go fishing every day. Pretty sad, and although it is a free world, if you are retired, or have enough money to own a boat and just want to do it as a side business, find some friends, stay out of the business, it is saturated enough for everyone, why make it any worse?

Re: The charter/party industry...
 

Don't have an an answer to your question(s) but I will offer you a counter view/question.

I recently returned from Florida and had intended on fishing a party boat (got blown out). Anyway, I found 2 different boats that offered full day trips. By full day I mean leave at 8 AM & return at 5 PM. Fare was $60 and for $10 more you had rod/reel rental plus an egg sandwich for breakfast and your choice of a burger, hot dog or sandwich for lunch with all the water, iced tea, soda you wanted. Not a bad deal for $70. Where can you find that on any NJ party boat?

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The miss cape Canaveral does that. You can't beat it

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Steve, that's the boat I was booked on. I have several friends in the area who highly recommended the Obsession (out of the same port) but all the sterns spots were taken, thus I booked the Miss Cape Canaveral.

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i diagree a bit i think if Boat A is charging $140 for a 6am-4pm charter and Boat B is charging $110 for the same, i'm not going with boat B just because it is cheaper. I'm going with whatever boat is going to put me on fish, have a kick ass CD on loop & put up with my shenanigans.I think that is true with most anglers so it wouldn't matter if someone raised there prices a bit above average I think if they produce they will book no matter the fare. My neck My back

Re: The charter/party industry...
 

I am with you on that one, but people who are uneducated on the fishing business and who to fish with, will usually take the lesser. and also if that is the case mr murray, why don't the said "boat a" charge 180 or 200 for the day? lol

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thats just silly Vincent stop giving people these ideas of $200pp ahahahah

Re: The charter/party industry...
 

Maybe worried about laws against collusion?

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I slightly disagree here too. Times are getting tougher and every industry is getting more and more competitive, why do you think fishing is any different?? The average middle income home/family is trying to save pennies any where possible. Middle of the week trip for fluke, $50 headboat vs $125 open boat charter is kinda hard to justify... The charter guys doing it full time are the ones that I feel for, the guys that do it part time who tend to offer the cheaper charters have another source of income to rely upon and don't need to charge "full price" for charters.

Owning a boat and taking a bunch of guys bucktailing off the rocks with the rest of the fleet doesn't make one guy better then the next. Try talking to the guys down my way that don't have all the different structure you northern guys do is a little different! We don't have rocks or mussel beds to fish. A captain that can consistently put limits of big fluke in the boat in the middle of the summer down my way might be able to get away with charging the higher rates...

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Could it be that there are so many part timers with 6 pac tickets ? We all know at least one guy in our Inlet that does it because It's an extention of his hobby . He just wants to write off his boat/expenses and fish when he wants to . Carry a few charters/open partys break even. Most of the part timers that I know are good people who fish hard and need the money. attrition doesn't work if it's not a major part of your Living Expenses .

Re: The charter/party industry...
 

That is what i am getting at here and mostly everyones comments are falling into the same area. I have brought this up before.. why do people sell themselves short? If you are charging 100 per man for a 6 pack and the guy next marina over is charging 125-140 why would you not charge more and be up to par with everyone else? The answers is simple, they do not need to do that much per day to cover their costs since likely they are either not looking at a full time gig or they are not looking to do anything but fish. So why do it? Take cape may for instance, used to be one of the largest striped bass fleets down there, everyone did it and for good money, then the little part time and even some full time guys came in and took a dump on the industry, now it was the old "why fish with boat 1 for 130 a guy, when i can go and fish with boat 2, for 60 bucks for 5 hours.. the difference is clear i most eyes yet some do not see it.

I also see pretty good fishermen come into the industry and sell themselves short. why charge 100 per guy for an inshore trip when you can get 125-140 or whatever all day long? why not make the most you can out of our short shitty seasons up here?

Same with offshore, why charge 2500 for an overnighter when you can charger 3300-3800 and make more money and be up to par with everyone else?

Re: The charter/party industry...
 

What about the full-timers who charge more than everyone else and are still booked solid all season-long? All the part-time captains could charge 20 bucks a head for a tuna trip, and the Canyon Runner would still be booked solid all season. Don't blame some guys with low prices for "ruining" an industry. The local fishing industry has WAY more issues stacked against it, including non-sensical regulations, a changing society where fishing just isn't as popular as it once was, more environmentalists spreading anti-fishing non-sense, etc.

Price-fixing is certainly not the answer to saving anyone's business.

Re: The charter/party industry...
 

collusion would have nothing to do with industry standards, no one is lowering or raising prices secretively, they are not doing it in order to cheat anyone... it would just be a simple industry meeting to discuss where pricing should be and discuss how to make the industry better as a whole.. and remember, this is just my opinion!

Re: The charter/party industry...
 

your comparing apples to oranges throwing a name like that out there... might point is not that, my point is why charge less for a service you could get more for? what is the reason? it sure as shit is not because anyones costs are less, and if they are that much less, then why not try to make as much as you can. And you can sure blame guys who charge out of control low prices for ruining an industry.. The bass fishery in cape may has not changed, but try to find boat that does not have to run open boats and go with a few guys here and there to keep busy.

Re: The charter/party industry...
 

What do you think is better? Going out with 3 guys paying $125 or 6 guys paying $100 bucks? Some of the captains need to have a better understanding of business. Give the guys who sign up a break saying if we fill the Charter it'll be cheaper and actually hand money back to them! Or run cheaper rates during the week vs weekend rates. That'll get them to entice their friends to maybe join for the cheaper rate as well.
I'm a private boat owner so haven't run the numbers for insurance and slip fees, but it can't be costing anywhere near $750 to run inshore fluke, seabass/blackfish trips...?

Re: The charter/party industry...
 

sportfishingusa this is a free market economy in a way, I say in a way because some markets aren't, like when they do what you suggest, all charter boats should band together to charge everyone one set price that is called MAP pricing (Minimum Average Price).

That is evil to me as I like competition and the free market.

I sell on ebay and people always try and undercut other sellers by way of lower prices and thats fine if the want a smaller margin it's on them. I make my money and they make theirs and it's all good.

I live by how my mom raised me, worry about yourself and your business and don't worry about someone else'. You will retain a higher quality client this way.

Re: The charter/party industry...
 

The way it goes, like it or not, is that our economy is a free market one.
Getting your six pack license is not that difficult or expensive to do. Reputation goes a long way to price. I know there are some charters who command a very steep price. For some, it is worth the expense for others they say they are crazy to ask that much. I say if they can get it, good for them. I also say if a guy wants to sail everyday for less then what it actually costs him, good for him. He will probably not last long.

If you try to get together and set a price someone will take advantage of it. Did you see the reaction two years ago to the groupon buy one get one free trip a NS party boat offered? Well, everyone around was mad that there were people on his boat. " He's ruining the industry, no one is going to work with him, etc. I saw more people on that boat last year when there were no more Groupons then ever before. I heard him called in on a bite by one of the same guys that bashed him. Dock politics works in mysterious ways!

Also, Many people get started in the industry as a supplement to their hobby (I guess they like to take the fun out of it) A lot of guys just want to be on the water. If you are starting out, you want to work up your business. So, if you want to spend the whole day working to prove yourself and just break even, or even lose a couple bucks why not?
Doctors, teachers, policeman, etc...many own and charter their boats. They all started somewhere.

If you want to start an offshore tuna fishing charter do you think you will get 900 a man your first trip out? Or will you get 325 a man and just cover the expenses?

Re: The charter/party industry...
 

think it is better to not sail then go with 3 at 125. lol


You got to take these costs.

Fuel
Bait
Oil
oil filter
insurance
slip
payroll (mate)
tax
boat cost (if any payments)


There is a lot of dollars and sense... i understand not everyone can sail every single day with 6 guys at 125 or 140 bucks a head, but if you can sail with 6 guys at 100 why not charge "industry" standard and make some more money for the days you sail or the days you have to sail light?

Re: The charter/party industry...
 

and finally it took one post like this to liven up the crowd hahahah

Re: The charter/party industry...
 

Charter boats are no different than any other business. Its pricing is governed by supply and demand. If you have too many boats or not enough fisherman the prices will drop as captains make the economic choice of lowering their fare to increase their load. I have to admire the captains that go out with a minimum of fisherman where they may not break even. These captains have my loyalty, my business and I don't complain when the rails are packed. Eventually an equilibrium is reached where you have a balance of charters and fisherman, prices stabilize. As the economy weakens discretionary spending drops (less money to go fishing) charter prices drop, maybe some go out of business (a sad reality) the supply of charters matches the fisherman. But here is light at the end of the tunnel, as the economy improves, discretionary spending improves, the rails get crowded, prices go up and entrepreneurial mates become captains. One thing we should all do is take a kid (or non fishing friend) fishing. As they get hooked (pun intended) the growing number of fisherman will increase demand and maintain the diversity of charters we all want.

Re: The charter/party industry...
 

Thank you.. well said!

Re: The charter/party industry...
 

I own 2 boats and Bass Boat and a Saltwater boat.

How about Breaking down what you spend on average on all the above for all to see, I mean you want everyone to follow industry standard, so let everyone see your costs. ;)

Re: The charter/party industry...
 

I do not run a charter operation. I am putting a perspective on it from the outside looking in.

But i am sure if most crunched their numbers they would drop their jaws and not their drawers.

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You can say that its better not to sail with 3 at $125 but I'm pretty sure next time those same guys want to book, they're going to book with someone there is a better chance of sailing with... I bet even sailing with 2, $250 will cover most if not all your costs to keep customers happy. Once again, difference business sense, each to their own...
And you're crazy with your "industry" standard thought process. The guy that mentioned that Groupon thing is getting warmer. You have to give people an incentive to go on your boat, let it be free food, longer hours or cheaper rates, etc. That Groupon thing wasn't all about money, that was cheap advertising!!

Re: The charter/party industry...
 

There is another problem, there was a time when i was growing up and working on boats, there was no such thing as an open boat, and that was not to long ago.. Shared charter maybe, but no such thing as an open boat...

You can give incentives all you want, but why give away money? someone please explain that thought process. There is no "industry" standard, that is what i am trying to get at, but if you look at majority of the boats in the area they are all around the same prices except for some of the boats charging much less and going with less guys, why not just fish and enjoy yourself compared to taking on responsibility and liable for others? for what? we dont have long enough seasons to keep someone financially stable making minimum amounts of money per trip, we do not get to fish that many days in this area.

Re: The charter/party industry...
 

sportfishingusa you also have to take into account the regulations. I for one am not a charter boat person as i would rather double the amounts of trips in a year.

I live in North NJ and gas and food and tolls add up. So a charter boat fluking that only runs maybe 10 miles North of their inlet is charging a premium price of $125 not including tip.

Then take into account Gulp, jigs, hooks and tip and now you are talking a $220 day.

Are the Captains taking that into consideration on pricing? No they aren't they are worried about their bottom line.

What I want to know is how many Captains say you were out with me 4 weeks in a row this one is on me?

The industry from what I read on here from the damage of Sandy was to support their local business, but does the local business look out for their customers.

At the end of the month are they paying my bills? Can i count on them to support me if i walk in or board their boat and forget my money, and they say no worries it's free?

If yes then i will support them but thats not happening...

Re: The charter/party industry...
 

i just calculated Sportfishingusa daily amounton a trip:
fare-$125
tip-$25
Food- $50
Beer-$350

Re: The charter/party industry...
 

Food is sometimes less depending on what time i pass out for my mid morning nap :eek:

Re: The charter/party industry...
 

It is not as free of a market as you think.

Cigarettes, "lowest price allowed by law".
State mandated milk prices.
Agricultural and Oil subsidies.
Bank bailouts.

Re: The charter/party industry...
 

:D :D :D :D :D

Re: The charter/party industry...
 

Ahem-

Re: The charter/party industry...
 

now that is some funny shit. hahaha

Re: The charter/party industry...
 

Oy Vey.

Whatever.

Tight Lines.

Re: The charter/party industry...
 

You are in business, you can charge whatever you want, and your competitors can also. If you do not like it go into another business and guess what, same sh*t happens!!! If it was easy anywone could do it!! That is why some boats are booked solid and some are not, your choice!!!

BC

Re: The charter/party industry...
 

Sport I hate to say this but I agree with you on this one! Guys in my marina running charters and under charging are killing those of use willing to travel to the fish. Just look at the price differences between areas I can see early bass in our backyard but after that we need to run.

Re: The charter/party industry...
 

Right on Eddie.

Re: The charter/party industry...
 

Bottom Line here is:

YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!

And that's it.



On another note, we start fishing next week! :)

Re: The charter/party industry...
 

I am glad there are the low cost providers. Easy way for me to know what boat to stay away from.
Every 1/2 serious fisherman will not go on a "cheap" charter, open charter etc., and we know why.
Actually has a double benefit, 1) to stay away from boats/captains below standard
2) stay away from novice fishermen

Gotta love free market :)

btw, thats valid for everything other than commodities, lower price means sacrificing SOMETHING.

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Not everybody can afford the higher prices anymore. People are trying to get the most bang for their buck. I'm fishing 50% less because of the prices associated that goes into a day of fishing. Price cutting is going on everywhere restaurant coupons, internet discounts everybody is hurting in all industry's. If you can survive on less do it. I'm making 85% less then what I was making in the markets. I know I can no longer fish as much as I used to because of it. I just cherry pick my days now & save up for what I feel is a worth while day. Not everybody is as fortunate as others & only wish they could fish more but no longer can they swing it anymore. So if you see somebody fishing on that lowered priced boat there may be more of a reason behind it.

Re: The charter/party industry...
 

true & you got that real handsome guy you fish with who brings ya pretzels! Vinty for the post today i needed entertainement now we need this weather to break!