Think we will see Whiting in our lifetime?
 

Just wondering.. I remember when NJ party boats stopped sailing for Tog in about mid November.. It was Whiting time, and believe it or not no one gave a crap about Tog.... Fall Tog season was about 6 weeks maybe.. Started early mid Oct, and were done when the Whiting and Ling came in solid inshore.

The whiting/ling boats had decent crowds but were rarely packed, because the fish were close in, and ALL the boats sailed for them,, so there was always room. In those days, if I recall correctly most of the bigger faster boats as far north as AH would sail all winter as long as the bay wasn't locked with ice. [As it WAS some years]... I sure miss those days.

In my opinion, if the Whiting come back strong, it will take a LOT of pressure off the blackfish, as it will give guys another option... I realize it will probably never happen.
The big foreign draggers took most of them, and a lot of us recreational guys did our share of damage as well, taking home galvanized garbage cans full, and running them over to Leroys on rt 36 to have them smoked... I hope they come back, but to be honest, I fear I may never see another one.. They were easily one of my favorite fish way back when. bob

Re: Think we will see Whiting in our lifetime?
 

How old are ya!!??????

Re: Think we will see Whiting in our lifetime?
 

I loved the Whiting but as the dogfish population grew the Whiting population dwindled. I also believe part of the problem was overfishing as well by everybody like you mentioned. We needed the regulation like we now have in place to protect that fishery back then. They still do get Whiting up north but I'm not sure if it's a rod & reel fishery or not. I know if they shut down the Codfishing up north they may start targeting them again up there. I did hear that we still have them here in the canyons I'm not sure how true it is. I know that if people are willing to spend the money they now do for 15 Sea Bass I'm sure they would spend it for Whiting if they had to do a offshore trip for them. I only wish that somebody would try it & see if it's a feasible fishery down here or not.

Re: Think we will see Whiting in our lifetime?
 

nope

Re: Think we will see Whiting in our lifetime?
 

yes, I know there are scientests that siene, I even beleve there is somebody on this sight that does too, but they are saying that they are catching thousands of tiny whiting in their nets. the only thing we can do now is allow them to come back.

Re: Think we will see Whiting in our lifetime?
 

Would be one of the greatest comebacks of all times, I miss those MAJIC HOUR trips !!!! Usually always came home with a 5 gallon bucket full which was more than enough to enjoy!

Re: Think we will see Whiting in our lifetime?
 

The whiting stock is not down, it's that the trawlers get them before they can even get to us.

These whiting we used to catch are Hudson Canyon stock and just like cod do these fish migrated inshore over the winter months.

It's simple, get rid of the Trawlers or at least cut the fleet in half and they will get a chance to come inshore.

Corporate Commercial fleets are what has ruined the whiting fishery, not hook and line.

Re: Think we will see Whiting in our lifetime?
 

Just look in the fish cases at any fish store and CRY over the size of the whiting that they bring in to sell the public. Ten (10) inches at best. How the hell can the stock reproduce when the regulations let the trawlers keep such small fish. Has a whiting that size even had a chance to reproduce once? I've told seafood owners and managers not to buy these undersize whiting. How much meat is on them? You would need a dozen to make one meal. Ridiculous! The government worries about a healthy fish stock like seabass but doesn't put their foot down in other places. Don't they go into stores and see what I see? It's pitiful to look at such small fish being sold. Unless there is a moritorium on whiting I honestly feel we will never see them in numbers again where they will be a targeted fish. And that is so sad. Don't get me started on the whiting (silver hake) depletion.

Re: Think we will see Whiting in our lifetime?
 

You are an old salt like me and probably fished on the Long Branch Pier. Pm me if you would like a picture of the pier. I took it from my 16' boat the day before it was to be demolished.

Re: Think we will see Whiting in our lifetime?
 

The comercial guys with thier small mesh nets not only wiped out the whiting in our area; by doing so we lost the giant tuna that often frequented the Mud Hole to feed on them.

Re: Think we will see Whiting in our lifetime?
 

Amen cuz! And Paul...

Hey cuz if you could email me a pic of the pier it would be awesome my wife used to go there fishing from the pier along w "frost fishing", I'd appreciate that mucho

Re: Think we will see Whiting in our lifetime?
 

I did indeed fish the pier.. I am older than some here, but not others[58].. I appreciate the offer for the pic, but it would only bring sadness I'm afraid..bob

Re: Think we will see Whiting in our lifetime?
 

You know its funny, I still see those whiting you speak of at big huge stores here in NY state [Wegmans}.. They have big , incredibly well stocked seafood sections.. They are indeed pretty small, a one footer being a good one... Sad to see.. The average one we caught was probably 15 inches, with some bats up to 22-24 inches now and then...The NMFS is regulating everything.. How about clamping down real hard on Silver Hake for a year or three for the draggers??. Maybe then we'll see some come inshore mixed in with Ling... In my opinion though. I doubt I'll ever catch another, especially living where I do, and not getting to the shore but a few times a year... bob

Re: Think we will see Whiting in our lifetime?
 

Not bursting anybody's bubbles here but there were a good amount of whiting in the deeper reaches of the mud hole and up on the north side this past spring and early summer. These were not the baseball bat sized fish nor where they all spikes, but they were there. Yes totally different fishery than that of 25 + years ago but there were more around this year than there have been in 20 years.

I'm a big believer in most "fisheries" being cyclical - some species have good spurts while others have spurts where they are hard to come by. The most notorious example of this would be our weakfish fishery - where we have wild cycles where they are thick as fleas and others where there are virtually no fish around.

I also read somewhere once that a couple of generations in the 1800's never SAW a bluefish in NJ waters, only to have them return later on in droves and people who saw/caugth them had no idea what they were. Hard to believe right?

On a similar note, I read somewhere that fishermen/scientists hypothesized that those whiting seen offshore were migrators from the stocks out east - not from a localized stock (mud hole) which we used to have before it was completely wiped out.

They taste great, are easy to catch, and will basically eat anything so if they come back in any #'s it will be great for all of us.

Although I never set foot on the Long Branch Pier, I remember several occasions in the 80's where the old Casino Pier in SSH (the one that Sandy took w/ her) was the site of some "wild" early spring evenings where jumbo breeder ling and whiting were flying over the rails and into the sinks and buckets 2-3 at a time. Great times - let's hope the stock gets rebuilt and we can enjoy them again!

Re: Think we will see Whiting in our lifetime?
 

AGREE...

Re: Think we will see Whiting in our lifetime?
 

Remember the Long Branch pier very well as a kid. Anyone who never fished it can ever imagine the amount of fish that were landed by everyone during the course of a night in the fall / winter when the ling and whiting moved in. It was insane fishing! The northeast corner of the pier was furthest out and produced the best but most nights anywhere on the pier you could catch fish. They used to have an old chum grinder inshore a little bit that they would grind left over carcasses and drop chum into the water. Not sure it made a difference especially with the ling and whiting but it was pretty cool. One helluva a fluke pier as well. Remember one September day when the fluke were schooling up getting ready for their easterly migration there were about a dozen and a half fluke caught over 8 lbs on that pier with at least half over 10 lbs. The biggest that day was 13.8 lbs. They'd drop a mesh basket down and you would have to work the fluke into the basket and then have the guy working the basket for you raise it when you positioned the fluke above it and then hoist it 50 feet or so to the deck. It was crazy but fluke fishing on the LB pier was phenomenal.

Back to whiting and ling, don't think those days will ever rebound. This October was headed to the Hudson on our boat and ran across literally acres of spike whiting floating on the surface. Thousands of them. I hear what Reel Class is saying but in my opinion there's no way a fishery can sustain itself with the commercial pressure on it that whiting have. The draggers are killing the stock....period. I understand cyclical but if a certain stock doesn't come back for about 40 years, I don't think that qualifies as cyclical. Can almost guarantee if the fishery was regulated and the killing of thousands if not millions of juvenile fish was prohibited, that fishery would bounce back in a few years. How could it not.

Dakota

Re: Think we will see Whiting in our lifetime?
 

I loved working the magic hour trips off the ocean grove pipe.. good times... who here can remember or has ever seen a frost fish.....there is one from the past

Re: Think we will see Whiting in our lifetime?
 

i too remember the long branch pier , 3-9 magic trips, buckets of whiting and made a tradition every friday after thanksgiving going out on the paramount ii for the afternoon 1/2 day trip it was the first party boat i went on that had heated rails

Re: Think we will see Whiting in our lifetime?
 

About four years ago on the Voyager offshore sea bass trip I caught two nice size whiting. I had forgotten what they looked like.

For those who fish Long Beach Island you would remember the whiting trips on the DM out of Barnegat Light. Folks would get off the boat and drop them off in Tucketon to get them smoked. The next weekend they would drop off a fresh batch of whiting and pick up their catch from the week before.

The Norma K did those trips as well? I forget.

Re: Think we will see Whiting in our lifetime?
 

I remember the NK doing 2 half days and a half night trip even during whiting season - the only boats in Manasquan Inlet that did magic hours (that I remember!) were the Dauntless and jamaica... I could be wrong!

Re: Think we will see Whiting in our lifetime?
 

caught these on the voyager couple years ago


http://www.voyagerfishing.com/html/2008-1_34.html

Re: Think we will see Whiting in our lifetime?
 

pics of LB pier from njscuba.net. Over the years I spent many days and evenings(for Whiting) on that pier.

http://njscuba.net/sites/site_long_branch.html

Bill

Re: Think we will see Whiting in our lifetime?
 

I remember Billy! I remember! I'll take 2 whole mackerel wrapped in newspaper..

Whiting and ling under the lights of the Long Branch peir..

Leif

Re: Think we will see Whiting in our lifetime?
 

Yes I remember as a kid in the early 70's fishing on the Place outta Hoboken nj fishing for whithing in the amboross channel, right by the iron horse LOL. Those whithig were called baseball bats because they were big! Along with 5 lb ling, we use to fill up burlap bags full of them.
The.last time we got them was on 1986 fishing on the dorthy b in sheepshead bay.robot cop was the big movie, yes. I had caught a few after that on private boats, and a party too and it was a big deal, everybody talked about the whithing I caught.MISS THOSE DAYS

Re: Think we will see Whiting in our lifetime?
 

Forgot To Mention In The 80's I Caught A 5 Lb Whiting On The Palace And Won The Pool, Ollie Balletti Said That It's Been Years That The Pool Was Won On His Boat By A Quoting.
Yes And The Long Branch Fishing Pier, Boy The Whiting Was All Over By True Lights Mixed With The Herring. Remember Filling A 5gal Pail In A Hour Then Leaving Cause It Was Freezing Lol

Re: Think we will see Whiting in our lifetime?
 

I have seen it in my lifetime, but fear will not again.

Used to go "Frost" Fishing with my Pop and Grand Dad, Whiting would come up in the surf chasing bait and get stunned by the cold air, we would scap them up with long handled nets.

Used to be able to catch Whiting at the Cedars on Sandy Hook.........

Foriegn Ship killed the fishery in the late 80's-90's, and our government let them do it. Has never rebounded in out area.

Used to catch what we called "Baseball Bats" and thats how big they were. You'd take 2 burlap bags of Fish to Roy's or LeRoy's on Rt 36 and they would smoke them for half the fish............

Just a memory now:(

Re: Think we will see Whiting in our lifetime?
 

We used to go to a smokehouse in Secaucus for the same deal - give them half.

Even better memories of eating smoked whiting for breakfast almost all winter!

Re: Think we will see Whiting in our lifetime?
 

1991 was the last year We got the baseball bats on the 17 fathom bank in march. I made more money that summer than i did the rest of the summer since fluke was terrible that year

Re: Think we will see Whiting in our lifetime?
 

That was the good old days cought the whiting at the cedars a few times ling too.Dam Leroys made some good smoked fish.Too see them come back i wish.

Whiting & our lifetime?
 

I agree it's cyclic. Remember stripers decimated and never recovering? Now weakfish are decimated and gone from north NJ. Why? It's not that simple to say the commercial demons did it again to us. Not with weakfish.

The whiting fishing is very nastalgic. LOOK BACK....

Long Branch pier night fishing for whiting with my old man and brother in January in the early 70's. That's my life long memory. Cleaning up whiting and ling at Scotland light. There actually being an Ambrose Tower to watch.

Notice. There are no new fishing piers. Long Branch is gone. Probably both Seaside and Keansburg are not too far behind. Sad thing as it's an excellent way to introduce kids to fishing that you can actually leave when they get bored. Change again. To me not for better.

It's a cycle and things change. Now that Old Orchard is part of the reef program, they will likely make some ugly looking lattice structure to take its place. Bye lighthouse! A clone of the boring looking Greak Kills buglight? Probably. No character.

Nature cycles, we evolve not necessarily how we'd like.

Funny you read old books and you find that Raritan Bay had marked off areas for private clam and oyster grounds. Picture that happening today?

What about blowfish in Raritan or Sandy Hook Bays.

Or the 42' partyboat Pelican out of Montauk overloaded with 62 passengers (the Book DARK NOON) on a Labor day trip That trip killed 42 of them- top heavy and rolled.

Things change + and -. Nature readjusts and readjusts. The whiting are back( as stated earlier) and tweaking their migration a bit every year too.

Live long enough and history repeats itself. Maybe be a 150 years though. :)

Re: Think we will see Whiting in our lifetime?
 

Best I could do

Re: Think we will see Whiting in our lifetime?
 

I grew up on the LB pier in the 50's and 60's and some 70's. The first fish of the year board in the tackle shop (which I made in 1962 for a striper, ironically I was fishing with herring strips for whiting) . 75 cents got you bait and a day's fishin. I owned the baseball home run derby pinball on really cold nights. George's clam chowder is still the standard I use. Having to "earn" your way onto the NE corner with the regulars as a kid was no small accomplishment. Once there, the old timers considered you one of their own. Offers of a whiskey spiked coffee "warmin-up" to a twelve year old wasn't even given a second thought. Gone are the days of whiting on the shore. I witnessed first hand, as many have, offshore, miles of juvenile spikes and ling floating and dying behind multiple trawlers . Were the nets full or were these crushed before getting squeezed through the large mesh? This waste is out of control. Larger mesh only works in the early set. Once the floor is covered everything gets pressed in. It's my belief that the winter fisheries we grew up with don't stand much of a chance of returning even with tighter restrictions imposed.
Global warming will move everything north, just as the southern summer fish species we see now in numbers.

Re: Think we will see Whiting in our lifetime?
 

All the older guys did work on them back in the day.. I dont think we will see them back as thick as they used to be.. Last year we picked up one while fishing.. was the first one i had ever seen in real life. My dad has pics of him out on my great grand fathers charter boat " Tillie" with more whiting then u could count

Re: Think we will see Whiting in our lifetime?
 

Here is another pic of the pier.

Re: Think we will see Whiting in our lifetime?
 

I remember all of the above. I was also one of the guy's that started the Long Branch Fishing club. Does anyone remember Roy's on 36 where you could trade 2 fresh whiting for 1 smoked

Re: Think we will see Whiting in our lifetime?
 

The foreign boats crushed the whiting?Our own draggers out of Belford did a number on them also.They still drag and sell ''spikes''.They still purse sien for bunker in the bay.I wonder how many weakies and stripers died as by catch.My oldest son is 40 and got in on the whiting run when he was a boy.My youngest son Jamey who mates for me is 34 and never got to enjoy our whiting run.Sad isn't it.Let us not worry about what we had let is worry about the future!

Re: Think we will see Whiting in our lifetime?
 

Not really "worried" about it Capt Sal... Just sad is all...
... If those fish were still where they should be, your job would be easier, it would give your clients more options, and the pressure on other species would be lighter..

Think about this.. Imagine if the Whiting came back in numbers, as well as the Winter Flounder... It would be a great help to all other stocks of inshore fish species, as well as the guys like yourself that take guys out to fish for them.. The past is gone, I realize that.. I am worried about the future.. Some of these fish really need a break from the guys that are dragging them off the bottom before they can even spawn.... bob

Re: Think we will see Whiting in our lifetime?
 

The only thing wrong with winter flounders is the season and bag limits.

Re: Think we will see Whiting in our lifetime?
 

Could not agree with you more.. if they just gave us a decent season and bag limit everyone would be happy and more boats could target them..

Re: Think we will see Whiting in our lifetime?
 

So you're saying the bays, rivers, tidal creeks are full of flounder of all sizes?, as they were all my life, until maybe 20 years ago?..

If I fished off the wall at Shark River or off Shore in the Shrewbury River, or the beach of Raritan Bay with sandworms, I can still catch a few dozen??.. As someone that used to fish for winter flounder a LOT, I find that pretty hard to believe.. It was nothing to catch a 5 gallon bucket of them in a few hours 100 yards from shore in Union Beach when I lived there.. Same thing with the Shrewsbury. I have a difficult time believing they are still around in those kind of numbers..
Hey, you guys still live there of course, and I moved away in the early 90's... maybe things have changed, but even in the 90's I noticed the catch sizes were shrinking each year... If I am wrong, I defer to the locals to set me straight on the numbers... bob