cut next year's summer flounder catch by 10 percent
 

Saw this one coming :mad:

http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/n...9bb2963f4.html

Re: cut next year's summer flounder catch by 10 percent
 

Yea not exactly a shocker there. An increase in sea bass would be nice, maybe we can get rid off one of these two week fall closures

Re: cut next year's summer flounder catch by 10 percent
 

We were told that @ the captain's meeting for the Leonardo Fluke Tournament. Seems the juvenile fish that are to be next years/next couple years' keepers just aren't there.

So start the season later, end it quicker, raise the size limit back to 18" and lower the creel limit. Just make sure you put enough money into the system to pay the unemployment to all the fish-for-hire guys you're gonna put out of business.:(

Re: cut next year's summer flounder catch by 10 percent
 

Doesn't matter all the hard work that went into proving the system wrong....we put Egg on their face, and now they will get the last laugh.

It's not about the fish people........they simply want us off the water, out of business and no recreational fishing.
Read about the next push for Saving Habitat, sounds like closed area's coming to a reef near you!:mad:

Re: cut next year's summer flounder catch by 10 percent
 

Yet most of the Fish-for-Hire guys raved and even wanted a lower size limit with a decreased bag limit.They cant have their cake and eat it to:eek:.Capt Adam said what Lab just stated.We had a fishery rebuilt and we took a half inch off and kept 3 less fish what did you think was going to happen.We were going to go over quota if we went over quota 2 years ago with 18" bag at 8 fish.The people that set these rules have not one care in the world for you or me .I work over 75 hours a week am never late paying my taxes or any bill for that matter.I take care of my faimly follow the law and support my country every chance i get.I try and help anyone that i can and even help some people that dont appericate it.My 2 outlets for stress are fishing and hunting just like many of you.What do we get for being good Americans and good Stewards of the Land and Sea we bend over and take it up the tail pipe again.The question we have to ask ourselves is when is it enough when are we fed up enough to do something about it.I guess we havent reached that point yet cause its the same old same old.The REC. guys get screwed over and over.:mad: PS This post is not directed at you Capt Ron dont want you to think that since you Are a For-hire-guy

Re: cut next year's summer flounder catch by 10 percent
 

.....and if we kept the regs the same as last year????????????????

Re: cut next year's summer flounder catch by 10 percent
 

good, fluking in jersey may actually become good again
.

Re: cut next year's summer flounder catch by 10 percent
 

Jeez, wonder if the lack of juvenile fluke has anything at all to do with our population of doggies!
We all have probably caught them in every bay , river & estuary known to man.
Hard to believe that those doggies that are considered endanger by our NSoAA buddies don't have a hand in this latest lack of juvenile fluke!

Re: cut next year's summer flounder catch by 10 percent
 

**** them all now i will kill everything

Re: cut next year's summer flounder catch by 10 percent
 

Saying NJ doesnt have a good fulke fishery is just stupid plain and simple.John D tell me were the fishery is better i would love to know.Sure NY comes close but no state on the east coast has a better fishery for fluke IMO.Remember its not the arrow its the indian :eek:

Re: cut next year's summer flounder catch by 10 percent
 

I said it as soon as I saw you guys give up 3 fish for a 1/2 reduction and longer season... Welcome to the Hell that we in NY have suffered for over 5 years...

Never give up your creel limit, thats like giving up your life line, there is no one to blame now but yourselves for thinking you could get back from these scumbag *******s that are the regulators.

Just so you know Cass Sunstein, he is the Regulatory Czar and he is a ****ing nut bag.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaJ8VXYdBrg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoiHIbwRhSo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flfHZgT-SeI

Marching orders from up top...

Re: cut next year's summer flounder catch by 10 percent
 

Precisely. Could not have said it better (actually, I did say it on this very board months ago before Fluke started, but few were listening)

The quota was already cut for the year we are still fishing in and we said there was not enough quota to do what people wanted.

Nevermind, I am tired of spending inordinate amounts of time dealing with fisheries issues only to be told by people who never read a piece of paper, went to a meeting or looked something up on line that they know best and I should stay out of it because I am "one of those Bogans"

Next time listen to those that have been doing this shit (fisheries management, not just fishing) for 20+ years.

PS - Not saying NJ's regs are the reason for the cut, only that the geniuses that wanted to drop the bag limit and shorten the season to drop a shitty half inch now have nowhere to go but DOWN, DOWN DOWN and we start from a much worse position.

Everyone pray the roulette wheel known as MRIP does not come up with NJ's color this year and we may skate by, there is always the chance that MRIP won't come close to what we actually catch (and hopefully lower, not higher)

Re: cut next year's summer flounder catch by 10 percent
 

A lot of us saw this coming. You didn't have to be a genius to see it.

Re: cut next year's summer flounder catch by 10 percent
 

What did you do about it? Thats the question...

Re: cut next year's summer flounder catch by 10 percent
 

Just cant win.. No matter what we do, in the long run we are the ones getting the short end of the stick.. Nick said it best in his post..

Idk what else to say besides this is BS.. They are never happy.. they will be happy when we cant fish anymore

Re: cut next year's summer flounder catch by 10 percent
 

SOME of us went to the selection meeting in Toms River and voiced OUR opinion(s). The "Board" made their decision DESPITE what the majority stated they preferred.

On a personal note: I hope those that stated they were willing to give up creel limit to get a smaller size limit are man enough to now say their decision was short-sighted and flawed?


http://www.njfishing.com/forums/show...ght=fluke+poll

Re: cut next year's summer flounder catch by 10 percent
 

In what has been probably the best fluke season in the last five years with the amount of quality fish around , I dont think lowering the size limit to 17 1/2 really did that much as most fish were 17 or well over 18 , going by what we caught.
so if anything lowering the bag limit by 3 fish should have kept our landing poundage lower as if it had stayed at 8 there would def have been ALOT more fish kept, and the pounding would have been much higher.

curios to see how the new landing numbers reflect that

Re: cut next year's summer flounder catch by 10 percent
 

The creel limit should be 6 fish and size 14" and better.

You can not cull, once you catch your limit, that's that.

Also you must handle the fish with care as if it was your effing baby, I see too many effing idiots handle fish as if it was worthless, some mates too.

You want a good fishery? Well start policing your clientele and show them the proper way of handling their shorts and release them with care...

Re: cut next year's summer flounder catch by 10 percent
 

The current decision on quota was coming long before any decision was made about 2012 regulations. The 2013 quota is completely unrelated to 2012 regulations. You simply can't relate the two because, at this time, they are completely unrelated. 2012 catch will be integrated in future quota management decisions, but not the 2013 quota. Anyone who makes the argument next year's quota is tied to this year's regulations is grossly misinformed.

What will happen is in December, our 2012 PROJECTED landings will be compared to the 2013 quota. (Irregardless if our 2012 -> 2013 quota went up or down.) If 2012 landings are lower than 2013 quota, we will have the chance to liberalize. If landings = quota, regs will still be same. If landings are greater than quota, then we will reduce.

Keep in mind that the regs for this year were DESIGNED to significantly increase landings from 2011 (by nearly 40%).

As Tony correctly stated, landings numbers are nothing but a roulette wheel or a crap shoot. Any system that samples less than 1% of what it is supposed to be calculating is catastrophically insufficient for to the number management of anything.

If anyone would like to further discuss management, call or e-mail, thanks.

Re: cut next year's summer flounder catch by 10 percent
 

Thank you for informing the people who just don't know or read the valuable info posted here.Before anyone rants they should know the facts.A good way would be to attend a meeting.

Re: cut next year's summer flounder catch by 10 percent
 

I knew this was coming once we lowered size limit. Next year my guess would be 18 or 18.5 with 4-5 fish and shorter season. Southern guys gained nothing but one year. I agree nj is best fluking overall on east coast and I fishes for them from Maryland to mass.
I agree with sidewinder about handling short fish. They should never be handled roughly as they are our future. I would bet 95+% of my fish are surviving release. Only reason I'm say maybe 5 percent die is because there are occasionaly ones that get snagged on side of gill plate. I never net fish under 20" flipping then into my hand never touching boat is much better plus I care to remove hook quickly and carefully.

Re: cut next year's summer flounder catch by 10 percent
 

Again -

Re: cut next year's summer flounder catch by 10 percent
 

When you give up creel and length of season for lower size limits you will absolutely **** yourself.

I understand trends and how they manipulate the numbers and dangle regs that seem great at the time but it's like Mc Donald Burgers at the time of eating it tastes great then you realize later, Great? Yeah not so much.

The Bottom line is no matter what, you guys in NJ will get screwed just like we got reamed in NY.

Good Luck with that... Do you know how many Boats we lost in Long Island because of these regs?

I am a big picture guy and no matter how you come to your conclusion when your are screwed, you are screwed...

And bud you guys in NJ are screwed I see 4 fish and 18 1/2 inches in your future. ;)

Re: cut next year's summer flounder catch by 10 percent
 

Captadamnj,

In my post I stated nothing about quota for 2013 simply stated that with lowering our size limit I knew they would say we had a higher landings in 2012 than 2011 hence why I wanted to stay at 18.

Captadamnj. Could you tell me how many additional keepers this helped you with this season, bc I personally can say very few and threw 90+ percent of 17.5-18 back bc didn't need them.

Since you were driving force behind lovering size and creek can you say you still support your decision?

Not attacking you just a question.

Sidewinder unfortunately your right. I knew it was mistake. I think we might only go to 18, but 18.5 is definately possibility and then southern boats will really be screwed bc they said they needed 17.5 so bad..

Re: cut next year's summer flounder catch by 10 percent
 

and you seem happy about it. is it a NJ Vs. NY thing?

As LAB said, we can only voice our opinion, then the board does what it wants to do. you think they listen to our opinion? No way.

But to gloat that we will be affected like NY was sounds you think we deserve it because we are NJ not NY.

Just sayin.

Re: cut next year's summer flounder catch by 10 percent
 

Actually, while we were suffering in NY I heard many a NJ guys say good better them then us.

This isn't a NY vs NJ thing there is no comparison, NJ has been invade by us so there is no rivalry, NY hands down is better! :p :D

But seriously you guys moaned about your regulations so much but you didn't head the warning signs that you were next. It was coming a mile away a giant red flag and while you were crying over only being allowed 8 fluke we in ny had 2 fluke at 21 effing inches.

Think about it, you were able to keep 18" fluke we were throwing fish back at 20 7/8" roughly 3lbs a piece, and you guys were crying about your regs.

I believe NY, CT, and NJ should all have the same regulations period.

Re: cut next year's summer flounder catch by 10 percent
 

If that is your true belief, why stop there.... why shouldn't CT & RI have the same regulations of NJ & Del. And to go one step further, RI. & Mass. be the same as should Del. & MD. etc. etc.

Sorry the one size fits all concept doesn't work with me, just my IMHO.

Re: cut next year's summer flounder catch by 10 percent
 

In addition to the boxes of red noses for the clowns who gave back size and fish,
I now have tissues so you can dry your eyes. Foresight is armor against the unknown.
Thanks and look alive in the future.

Re: cut next year's summer flounder catch by 10 percent
 

capt. adam didnt you persuade the 17.5 inch size. from what i understand the 18 inch and 6 fish was highlighted at the meeting until you persuaded the council?

Re: cut next year's summer flounder catch by 10 percent
 

So everyone remembers what they chose when the regulations were posted.


http://www.njfishing.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43811

Re: cut next year's summer flounder catch by 10 percent
 

There you have it... Instead of working together this failed mentality is part of the problem, thanks! :)

Re: cut next year's summer flounder catch by 10 percent
 

Which is exactly what is supposed to happen. In a perfect world, the regulation changes will increase landings from 2011 to 2012 by nearly 40%. That is what our liberalization was intended to accomplish.

In FOUR dedicated fluke trips this year (I just don't do much fluking), I have landed 89 keepers. 26, 30, 16 and 17. Keepers between 17.5" and 18" on those trips were, respectively, - 2, 1, 3, 7. So 13 of 89 keepers have been as a result of the change in regs for me.

Well thank you for your "driving force" comment, but I don't think that is entirely accurate, polls on numerous sites saw varying interest in change in regs and there were plenty of people that spoke in favor of 17.5" at the NJ meeting, including Tony Bogan's cousin Ray.

The trip where I had 30, that was a 6 person limit. We quit early at the request of the party. Almost all keepers were over 20". So having the 5 fish bag limit was conservationally beneficial and the people were beyond satisfied. One of the four days resulted in a nice box of fish thanks to the 17.5" size limit. I have gotten numerous calls, texts and e-mails from folks that have gotten "a few more fish" as well as people that are more enthusiastic about going fishing as their prospects of getting a keeper are better. Word from this board and in person contacts from up north all reiterate similar sentiments as what hammer4reel posted, so many fish are over 18" that the 5 fish creel limit is more effective at constraining landings this year.

So yes, I absolutely and unequivocally stand by my support of going to 17.5". Many, many people have seen a benefit while the consequence of the lower creel limit has an overall lesser effect on fewer people.

As I stated long ago, I understand there are a number of sharpies on this board that can catch 8 18" fish, and my hat is off to them. They can voice their discontent with the regs, but for them, the 5 fish creel limit should be constraining harvest and making moot the argument of "I knew 17.5 in. size limit would dramatically increase landings".

Re: cut next year's summer flounder catch by 10 percent
 

1.) Ok so why should you have a say in anything fluke if you do 4 trips a year?

2.) You stated- "So having the 5 fish bag limit was conservationally beneficial and the people were beyond satisfied. "

How many shorts did you catch between 14" and 17", lets say it was 10:1 shorts to keepers. How many of those fish are alive now? (around 14" the fluke probably mated once or twice already this is why I am asking)

3.) You know as well as I do that the numbers offered are a dangling carrot to starving people. This is a type of vote where the fisherman always loses, yet you know this and say you are for the fishermen... Hmmmm.

You know that regardless of the harvest those numbers they gave you to pick from was a joke, pick what you picked and pushed hard for it to go through from what I have just heard, and when you go over raise the size lower the creel. Same goes the other way, not reach your target and they can come and say the fluke are on the decline and do the same thing as before raise size lower creel.

You end up in the same spot no matter what. Its funny for a guy preaching "know the facts" you sure hided a lot of things there Capt. I don't trust guys like that do these things, here in Brooklyn we call people like this rats, snakes.

Re: cut next year's summer flounder catch by 10 percent
 

And your post is still up?Don't need this kind of thing.What have you done to help the cause?Monday morning quarterback!!!

Re: cut next year's summer flounder catch by 10 percent
 

Well said, couldn't agree more!

Re: cut next year's summer flounder catch by 10 percent
 

I just want to point out that New York has very tough regulations now because of their poor management decisions in the past that caused them to exceed their quotas thereby forcing them to have their current strict regulations. Thankfully the NJMFC made wiser choices which resulted in us not exceeding our quotas in most years.
We are all getting ahead of ourselves for next year. As Adam said we do not know what the results of the survey will show. However, those interested need to get more involved by voicing thier opinions to those who manage our fisheries rather than just complaining here.
I too was unhappy with this years regualtions that were set by the commercial representatives on our NJMFC against the recommendation of the fluke advisory committee and the recreational representatives on the council. It is very unfair that there are more commercial representatives on the council than recreational ones.

Paul Haertel
2nd VP JCAA

Re: cut next year's summer flounder catch by 10 percent
 

Only fish a handful of fluke trips per year because of what the size limit has historically meant to anglers south of Barnegat, very few legal fish. Used to target fluke much more, but simply can't take people's money to bring them home with an empty fish box. Since fluke is not the bulk of my business, it also allows me to make objective decisions about what regulations will mean to the greatest number of people. Most find that input beneficial, YMMV.


The 2 better days we've had very few shorts, 2 throwbacks per keeper. The 2 days with keeper catches in the teens 5 - 1 throwbacks to keepers. I think we've gut hooked 3 fish this year. Very low mortality.

The direction of this thread is where the fishermen always lose. What is anyone fighting about in this thread, to say "I'm right" about a system that uses as it's basis a less than 1% sampling rate? There is no "right" about a system like that. The system is broke, and when we the fishermen continue to fight like this it only demonstrates that we aren't more than pawns in the game.

Hiding? 609-618-0366. Give a ring, if I don't pick up please leave a message and I'll be sure to get back to you. Thanks, and have a pleasant evening.

Re: cut next year's summer flounder catch by 10 percent
 

The frustration is that the RFA supported the 2012 regulations when it seems most of the folks do not. The people send their money to the RFA because they are told the RFA is the voice of the people.

The other frustration I think the folks are having is the RFA tells you if it was not for us, things would be worse. When the government closed sea bass on October 4, 2009, what was worse than that? Again, what was worse than that? And don't tell the people well, it got better. I am talking about that day. October 4, 2009. We had a sudden closure of sea bass and fluke had been closed for some time.

2013 seems like another reduction for fluke. Maybe the RFA could tell the people what the action plan is to fight this. How will the RFA use the people's funds to combat the impending 2013 fluke situation? People send you checks and go on fishing trips that donate to RFA. I think you owe the people an explination on how you will combat this impending situation. And who knows, maybe it can be a win. Maybe a loss. But at least tell the people where their money is going to combat this and other reduced fishery seasons. You owe it to the people who donate to the RFA.


I don't think the other gentleman is trying to fight you, I think he is just so frustrated with these threats from the government about reduced season and such while at the same time the RFA asks for money to keep America fishing.

I am not trying to fight you either, I am just trying to stop the current fight. I think all the people are asking is come clean with what their money is being used for.

Re: cut next year's summer flounder catch by 10 percent
 

Paul with all do respect, we did not go over anything. Actually we were under in many seasons, and the funny thing about one particular year where we lost half the fleet and actually had a 2 week closure in the middle of our fluke season mind you with only half a fleet so not many boats for all of LI actually targeting fluke we went over and it was For 2009, the minimum size limit was 21 inches, compared to 20.5 the year before. The bag limit was two fish, down from four. Additionally, there was a split season:

Open: May 15 – June 15.

Closed: June 16 – July 2.

Open: July 3 – August 17.

Closed thereafter.

And we still went over because of BS Data from the MRFSS, that boarded vessels and took numbers down in surveys.

Care to challenge these facts? :)

Re: cut next year's summer flounder catch by 10 percent
 

Very well written and said! :)