Salt water fishing license? Would you pay?
 

In last weeks episode, Peter Clarke, from njfw returned and we started talking about ways to fund the artificial reef program and the idea of a pay for saltwater license came up...

My gut reaction was to say hell no, but if there was some way to assure 100% of the license sales went back into our marune fisheries, i could consider playing ball; do you feel the same way?

Im the last person to trust "the government", but i could trust good people like Peter working there, so i feel like there is some path to this working.

Also, i look at how great places like florida are where you need to purchase a license to fish the saltwater and the use the money to build and maintain the marine environment, fishing access points, etc.

We think nothing of buying freshwater licenses every year because the stocking program is top notch so i think i can be sold on a saltwater license if it meant a better saltwater fiahing experience...

Link to the youtube episode below (also available on spotify):

https://youtu.be/O6wQQRcShLQ?si=Hikphb4v44aWUPOC

Re: Salt water fishing license? Would you pay?
 

I would buy a saltwater fishing license even if it only got me game wardens stopping people from filling up their pickup trucks with short striped bass on Raritan bay.
Why do 19 states have a saltwater fishing license and only 2 have a saltwater registry, something definitely fishy here.

Re: Salt water fishing license? Would you pay?
 

Two states with notoriously corrupt governments even more so than most others? Idk

Re: Salt water fishing license? Would you pay?
 

IMHO: The reason NJ has a FREE SW Registry is because thats what anglers preferred and the reason for that is there was /is no provisions for SWL fees to go back into NJ SW fishing, added game wardens, launches or public access.
Most would pay a SWL with any comfort level that the funds would end up benefitting the resource but unless someone can tell me different that's not the case.

Take for instance NJ Shellfish Licenses Fees ( Andy I know you asked this before) and I still can not provide accurate details but research and phone calls led to this:
Shellfish Licenses Fees are managed by NJDEP and NJFW then to the Bureau of Marine Habitat & Shellfisheries and Bureau of Marine Fisheries which make up the Marine Resources Administration. Try to follow that money trail LOL. I could NOT

Point being how much of your License Fee do you actually feel goes back to the resource?? And this is a managed License fee. Now imagine the Bureau's that would be created to manage a NJ State SWL :eek:

Re: Salt water fishing license? Would you pay?
 

I don’t support a license for several reasons and it’s not about having to spend $x on a license.
- I don’t think it would increase access it would decrease it. You and your family are down at the beach or the bay for the day or on vacation and you think to yourself, let’s go fishing but you don’t have license. Probably means you’re not going to fish part of that maybe money, inconvenience or both and that would be a shame.
- I hear the money will be used for free ramps, yeah where? Most every piece of convenient land on the water in NJ is owned privately or by a municipality.. We do have some land owned by the state in Leonardo and in Atlantic City but you pay to launch.
- Since we’re taxed to death already, our state has enough money to do practically what ever it wants to since the state budget is now $56 Billion. It’s not a matter of money, it’s a matter of priorities.
- Some say we’re missing out on federal funding since we don’t have a license and others say it wouldn’t make a difference. I’d like to see proof one way or the other.
- I’d love to see more funding for the reef program but I don’t trust that the money from the license will be spent the way we want it , it will be spent the way they want it and you can guarantee they’ll be a lot of waste and mismanagement of the funds, this is NJ people. If we want money for the reef let’s raise money for it so we’re sure that’s where it gets used. Let’s also get our state to make it and other things we need a priority. It’s our money, not theirs!

Re: Salt water fishing license? Would you pay?
 

Agreed! NY had one briefly and fishermen pushed back and had it dropped.
But could you imagine the Bureau? It would be the most fantastic and beautiful one you’ll ever see :)

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any reason why my reply was deleted?... It was a perfectly valid opinion as to where the SW license fees might very well wind up in NJ as well as NY... bob

Re: Salt water fishing license? Would you pay?
 

Pretty sure Government overreach is going to be addressed after the first. Let's hope this is one area not at the bottom of the list!!!

Re: Salt water fishing license? Would you pay?
 

I didn’t delete it please post it again!

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Id never trust the government with this but i just keep thinking there has to be a way to pay into a fund desicated to the marine fisheries without having to rely on donations

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Im with you not trusting the process but the best example is florida.... how does florida do it and its very successful based on how plentiful and well kept the access and marine environments are.

Re: Salt water fishing license? Would you pay
 

This topic has been beaten to death , and a lot of inaccurate info continues .
While license fees go into the general fund , having a SW license allows the state to apply to get funds we ALREADY paid back in excise tax’s .
Those funds can Only be used for SW improvement and ACCESS.
Accesss being the number one priority.

Broad Bill had posted we already get out excise portion back .
Talking to Peter that’s absolutely incorrect .


The rules are very specific that money sent back is based on actual license sales .
Other states such as Florida go after every penny they can , and it’s why they have free ramps etc all over .

Funds brought in from excise tax’s on freshwater tackle have been used to provide river access points in many very affluent areas .
State used the funds to purchase land , and made permanent access to great rivers throughout the state .

There is always something that can be purchased .
Or muniple spots like AH those funds can pay the daily fee so it’s free to launch .
Those crying about paying for a license end up spending way more paying launch fees all over the state yearly .


Reason we don’t have a license is FG marine division was told they would get no additional money for extra CO to enforce the license .
So the declined.

Anyone thinking fisherman voicing their opinions stopped the license are just kidding themselves .

NJ could care less about any funds benefitting hunters and fisherman in this state .
Because they can’t TAP that money for other interests .

.

Re: Salt water fishing license? Would you pay?
 

How is it 19 states have a saltwater license but yet only 2 can't get it right, again, something fishy here.

Re: Salt water fishing license? Would you pay?
 

Love ya but WHY do you keep posting the same narrative with nothing to back up the "fishy" part??

Re: Salt water fishing license? Would you pay?
 

If it were any of several other states I would have much less of a problem with a SW license,however NJ?? NY??...Those funds would be appropriated instantly into the general fund and distributed back into programs and giveaways to buy votes from the welfare class, "working poor",illegals,as well as programs that are legit and might benefit seniors, disabled, etc.. Might sound noble and all but thats NOT where fishing license fees should be used.. also, I despise the idea of "" the artificial reef program"".Too easy for that money to disappear into thin air. A LOT, a real lot of fishermen don't use the artificial reefs,, that money should go to greatly expanded access for shorebound and working class fishermen that might tow a 14 footer to fish a bay or tidal river, and NOT have to pay $75 to launch.. THATS where those fees should go,, State run free or low fee launch ramps, municipal or state park administered fishing piers and dedicated free access fishing areas in tidal areas, possibly fishing access on highway bridges that cross tidal rivers and bays, such as we see down south, etc.. Won't happen here, that money will go right to the cities where it will be used for ""social programs"" that are designed to catch voters, not to help anglers catch fish.

Re: Salt water fishing license? Would you pay?
 

I can't argue most of that but i will say the fw stocking program is absolutely top notch and funded by our fw licenses so id have hope similar could.be done for sw (not stocking, but access and reefs etc.) I also have to say i think the reefs are benefitial ro everyone fiahing even if not directly on the reef or for a "reef species" they hold bait, etc and have positive effects on even migratory fish hanging around and their food reproducing and such.

Re: Salt water fishing license? Would you pay?
 

Agreed on all parts! The state does a great job stocking and I think the reef program would benefit all species. Question is how do we fund it and assure those funds are not misappropriated.

Lots more questions then answers from my point of view.

Re: Salt water fishing license? Would you pay?
 

This from Jim Hutchinson at the Fishermen Magazine which is a very interesting look what happened last time this came up
https://www.thefisherman.com/article...EtMMdvTzaIyH3w

More info from Jim at Fishermen Magazine in the attachment below too.

It certainly does raise a lot of questions and regardless of which way you lean on this, I think we need some questions answered by the state in order to make a more informed opinion.

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I can assure you it's not because they have a salt water fishing license, it's because they care about fish and game a made it a funding priority in their budget. The FL SW license revenue was $7.2M in 2023

Florida spends $102M on fish and wildlife and has a total state budget of $116B.

NJ spends $15M on Fish and Wildlife and we have a $56B total state budget

The total state FL budget is a factor of almost 2X the size of ours but they outspend us in fish and game by a factor of 7X.

This is why I think the SW license is not the issue, the issue is SW fishing is not budget priority in our states government and politics.

Speaking of not being a priority, we have 2 vacant NJ marine (saltwater) council positions that it's the governors job to fill and his administration has neglected to do so in spite of being in office almost 7 years now.

I'll be the first to say we have more then our fair share of important issues here in our state but don't you think the $2B of revenue that salt water generates for our state each year deserves a bit more attention and priority?

Maybe we need to wait until the 2025 election and hope there are some changes in priorities ;)

Re: Salt water fishing license? Would you pay?
 

NJ has a great FW program but its administered by the NJDEP.. Not sure if a marine program would be handled the same way. Remember that much of the problem with marine fishing is access pure and simple.. Not stocking, not maintaining clean stream and rivers really,, but access.. Even reef building is access really.. Providing suitable habitat to hold fish for anglers to work.. NJ needs better access to the varied , extensive and very desirable salt and tidal waterways it has.. That means parking areas, shoreline access, ramps, piers etc etc... Not near as easy as dumping a truckload of fish into a lake or stream.. I may be cynical but I have my doubts that salt water anglers would see much more than maybe a few worn out boxcars dumped out onto a reef thats already established.. NY and NJ needs reasonably priced , well developed access to boat and shoreline marine fishing areas more than it needs a new reef in my opinion.. I just think that the anglers paying the fees would realize few tangible benefits. Thats just the way govt agencies work.. A lot of that money would go to bloated staff salaries... bob

Re: Salt water fishing license? Would you pay?
 

I agree that access, meaning more free ramps and parking are important issues but lets be practical about this, especially on the SW side... It's a pipe dream to think that any or even some of the parking and ramps that are owned privately or by municipalities would be bought up and suddenly become free.. Even in our current state marine parks, you pay to launch I have no reason to believe that will change, at least not enough to make a real difference but it would be great if we could.

As far as fishing access to beaches, I think at least in some cases you don't have to pay to get on the beach if you are fishing but where do you park? Show your fishing license and get a free parking spot at the beach... That certainly would sell a lot of licences and maybe there's something there :D

Reefs are pretty cheap in comparison to buying land for ramps and parking and it's something we could realistically get done. Reef habitat feeds and benefits the entire marine ecosystem.

Yes we need to protect our environment because with out it nothing else matters... I think we've made great strides here but it hardly has anything to do with fishermen and even less about paying for a license. It's a priority for everyone and the state, has it's own funding we already benefit from.

I'm certainly with you on how government tends to work here and most other places and the reason for my doubts. Some department gets some money from the general fund or lets say from a license fee, that's never going to end and will go on in perpetuity and takes on a life of it's own without any public input on how the money is spent and the will of the people. Think Parkway and Turnpike tolls here. Put in place years ago to pay for a bridge that has been paid for several times over..

I'm cynical as well and so are many others here for good reason.

Thanks for taking the time with your thoughtful reply and let's always remember, we might disagree on some things but in general, we're all on the same team

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USFW National Survey of Hunting, Fishing & Wildlife Associated Recreation- NJ Results:
Kristen Meistrell gave a presentation on the Summary of 2022 National Survey of Fishing, Hunting, and
Wildlife-Associated Recreation in New Jersey. Support comes from Wildlife and Sport Fish Restoration
Funds. It is jointly managed by U.S. Fish & Wildlife Services and Association of Fish and Wildlife
Agencies. The National Survey has been conducted since 1955. The survey was administered in two
phases by NORC at the University of Chicago, phase 1: initial screener- 2,291 people from NJ and phase
2: interviews with 4,258 people from NJ.
NJ gets $9.4 Billion in Expenditures
▪ $3.2 Billion in Fishing Related Expenditures
▪ $947 Million in Hunting Related Expenditures
▪ $5.3 Billion in Wildlife-Watching Related Expenditures

Re: Salt water fishing license? Would you pay?
 

Definitely need to wait for these political blowhards to get voted out to accomplish anything, you got that right! Tired of the same old political clowns on both sides. We will have at least one better option in 2025 who is a normal nj american that cares about outdoorsmen and small businesses like our tackle shops and charters.

Re: Salt water fishing license? Would you pay?
 

I may have missed something... the state actually asked?

Re: Salt water fishing license? Would you pay?
 

Artificial reef?? There are tons of corporations that have to pay to dispose of inert junk that would make for great reefs.

Re: Salt water fishing license? Would you pay?
 

Enough ocean dumping, please !!!

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The only way I would consider a SW license is if they extended the fishing seasons, more favorable and fair size limits and increase in the amount of fish we can keep. I'm not talking huge changes but something that makes it worthwhile to spend the money we already spend for a day fishing on the water.

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Something not adding up here or I’m not understanding something . Your numbers are saying 9.4 billion yet the state budget like I copied and pasted here is saying their budget is 15 million?

Here's some information about New Jersey's budget for fish and wildlife:
Division of Fish, Game and Wildlife
The operating budget for the Division of Fish, Game and Wildlife has remained at $15,078,506 for the past three years.
Bureau of Freshwater Fisheries
The Bureau of Freshwater Fisheries' budget is funded by the sale of fishing licenses and trout stamps, as well as federal excise taxes on the manufacturing of fishing and hunting equipment. The Bureau receives $1 million from the sale of fishing licenses and trout stamps to support freshwater research and management, and $2.2 million to support hatchery operations.

Re: Salt water fishing license? Would you pay?
 

From the F&G Council meeting October 8, 2024:

USFW National Survey of Hunting, Fishing & Wildlife Associated Recreation- NJ Results:
Kristen Meistrell gave a presentation on the Summary of 2022 National Survey of Fishing, Hunting, and
Wildlife-Associated Recreation in New Jersey. Support comes from Wildlife and Sport Fish Restoration
Funds. It is jointly managed by U.S. Fish & Wildlife Services and Association of Fish and Wildlife
Agencies. The National Survey has been conducted since 1955. The survey was administered in two
phases by NORC at the University of Chicago, phase 1: initial screener- 2,291 people from NJ and phase
2: interviews with 4,258 people from NJ.
NJ gets $9.4 Billion in Expenditures
▪ $3.2 Billion in Fishing Related Expenditures
▪ $947 Million in Hunting Related Expenditures
▪ $5.3 Billion in Wildlife-Watching Related Expenditures
Kristen put together a report that summarizes the graphs and will share that with the council.

Re: Salt water fishing license? Would you pay?
 

yeah, not the same as the streams and rivers you so often and so kindly and thoughtfully help to clean up. We both know that. As long as there are no chemicals, petroleum, poisons,and toxins going in, they can dump all the metal construction material, old ships, old train cars etc they can find into the ocean as far as I am concerned.. Nothing more barren in the ocean than wide open stretches of shifting sand,,, Sink an old demolished warehouse on this same barren sand and in 2 years its pulsing with life...

Tossing chemicals and poisonous garbage is "ocean dumping"..

Throwing "inert junk" into the ocean creates vast zones of sea life.. as long as it IS inert!.. Toxic crap??.. yeah in that case we are in total agreement... bob

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That would be great but a fishing license and the possible revenue from it has nothing to do and no influence on how our state salt water regulations are set.

Here is an over simplified explanation of how it works

The state quotas are assigned at the federal level and all our state gets to do is submit regulation options they think will achieve those quotas. Those options then have to be approved by the feds to see if they meet the guidelines to not exceed the quota we were assigned.

So basically what that means is all the state can do is move around the start and end dates, how many days the season is open, size and bag limits. In general, the higher the bag limit and lower the size of a keeper fish results in fewer days the season can be open and a state license is not going to change that.

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If it's the same as freshwater you old farts over 70 won't have to pay!

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I am over 70, and I have to pay in NY!... $5... They figure they'll give you a break because you'll be dropping dead soon enough i guess.

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The state did not ask.... Peter Clarke who runs the NJ Artificial Reef Program and I respect very much, was on a Podcast talking about his program. It's all funded by donations and mentioned that a license could help fund the program.

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I know this is a different subject but bear with me. Did Greenwood Lake ever approve the building of a public launch site that Muskynut was trying to facilitate through the proper channels or was anything done to allow recreational angler's access through existing marinas who changed their policies? That fight was going on for seemingly ever and was state not federal. I believe the answer is no based on the last post on the New Jersey thread:

https://www.njfishing.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=121620

Public access to a lake stocked with fish using public funds not to mention the public money used for the dam and it becomes this controversial and bureaucratic. Why would anyone believe a saltwater license would be used to benefit salt water anglers and not become another money grab for another politician with a completely different agenda.

Get someone to run for office who spells out exactly how these funds will be used for a purpose that benefits the recreational angler funding it and most people would support a saltwater license. But that's as likely as finding a winning lottery ticket in your sock drawer. The problem isn't the license fee when most anglers spend thousands a year on equipment, tackle and associated costs to enjoy a sport of their choice. The problem is the system we call government that's collectively given us a current $37 trillion national debt. Doesn't give me a lot of hope the proceeds from a license will be used to benefit salt water anglers. Same issue with the recent debacle with FEMA when Helene caused the catastrophe to states in the southeast only to find out money appropriated to help them for that exact purpose was previously and unwittingly diverted to sanctuary cities to be used for individuals in this country illegally.

We all spend enough of our hard earned money already without spending more to fund a government which has essentially turned their back on the saltwater recreational angling community. How many times do you need to walk into the same door before realizing it's the wrong door?

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Right so maybe we all rally behind the candidate in the next Governors race that we get to commit to helping us.

Re: Salt water fishing license? Would you pay?
 

Beat shot at that is gonna be Bill Spadea, but wed need a hell of a turnout for the primaries