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i recall 14 inch fluke { keepers } with no bag limit . 10 striped bass @ 18 inch or above . all the blue fish your trunk could hold . 16 weakfish . 50 flounder in shrewsbury an ok day but 80 to 100 a good day ? 100 ling a day at the 1 can inside the bug light ! whiting so thick you could frost fish and on the right winds and tide walk down the beach and gather a days catch pushed into the wash . i remember when you had 2 distinct sets of rules commercial and rec now party boats have thier own set as well . i recall we the rec fisherman had the biggest share over commercial and watched it dwindle down to they now have the monster load . bottom line is ive been watching us the { rec guys }go backwards for 50 years ! now all are up in arms over proposed fluke regs acting like cuts are some thing new ? we have been divided and conquerd slow but sure over many years . south wants this , north that , beach guys this party boats that and commercial wants thier share to boot . we all want better regs i get it and i dont have the answer but if we keep dropping out , stop fighting and fishing then we have truly lost ! hang in guys better days are coming .

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Right on Wizz... Giving up is not an option!

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I think everyone agrees giving up is not an option. The question is what does that mean? Reality is this is a big business controlled by the Secretary of Commerce, a handful of very powerful institutions and the commercial industry with their lobbyists and attorneys. So while I agree with your sentimental post, how does a completely fragmented recreational sector with mutually exclusive agendas, limited to no funding and miniscule lobbying efforts get a seat at the table when it comes to management regulations and completely unbalanced allocations of the resources under their management and control.

That's the million dollar question I don't think anyone has an answer for until the recreational sector as a whole organizes the way the commercial sector has which is light years away at best.

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No to come across in a negative way but basically the summary of your post is that the salt water fishery has taken a major dump. Maybe it’s time to think about that and forget about looser regulations commercial and recreational. The fishing is lousy. The better days are in the past in my opinion.

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For what it’s worth, lots of things have changed for recreational fishing over the last 50 years.

- NJ population alone increased from 7 to 9 million.
- Number of party boats dropped? Less fishing pressure from party boats?
- More private boats and charters, and boats got bigger and faster.
- Improvements in fishing equipment and tackle
- And probably the biggest one, technology and electronics. Chart plotters, fish finders and communication between fisherman (cell phones). That makes us much more efficient at finding/catching.

I wonder what the cumulative effect has been?

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The fish just don't stand a chance any longer... The world population in 1960 was 3 billion..Today its over 8 billion, and LOT of that 8 billion eat fish... No such thing now as "local markets"..Fish caught off of the east coast might be eaten a few days later in Japan... the oceans, bays, tidal rivers in heavily populated areas such as the NY Bight are under relentless pressure that only seems to get worse each year,,,Can't see salt water fishing getting much better overall, but I guess one can hope... Fresh water rec fishing is more easily maintained, because a lot of people don't eat FW fish, its not much of a market[yet], and massive factory ships can't wipe out entire populations like they do in the world's oceans.... bob

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The Problem is, was your mindset of Catching hundreds of fish was termed a "Successful Day". How many of those fish went to waste and ended up in a landfill? Fisherman got us into this mess by having their own way with the Ocean!! There is a saying all good things come to an end and You reap what you sow... Now you want to blame others, look in the mirror my friend

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Your comment raises two points. Keeping the number of fish that were being kept is just crazy and should have never been allowed to happen. With that said, even with those numbers being taken, the fisheries with less commercial pressure flourished every year with no apparent end in sight. When the fluke fishery in the late eighties collapsed due to commercial overharvest, they set their sights on winter flounder or black backs year round and that fabulous fishery was destroyed in a few short years. Cod, pollack, whiting and ling or ground fish in general followed suit for the same reasons and it wasn't related to recreational harvest. Remember an important point, recreational anglers for the most part have access to fisheries a few months out of the year, commercials pound them year round and these stocks can't take that pressure and the waste associated with commercial netting is a huge part of the problem. They kill everything. The finger in this case is pointed exactly were it should be.

To Bullet Bob's point in his post, the world is significantly more populated which has created a high demand for fish and seafood. That demand isn't being met by the recreational sector. It's a big business as I've said and the commercial sector and the bodies managing it are making billions of dollars a year exploiting a resource that in years past was never exploited the way it is today.

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Yes there were a lot of wasted fish back in the day for sure... However, the entities who manage our marine fisheries have totally mismanaged them.

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Things are different for sure in habitats etc and no arguing that its " not the old days" but there are still fish to be caught.

To be CLEAR those of us discussing the regulations its NOT about "looser" regs as much as its about FAIR and Equitable Regs for recreational and tightening on commercial to best sustain any species. Just want fisheries management to level the playing field for the fish first and sensible harvest across the board for stewards of the sea which most (not all) are.

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Rules in Federal waters have to change . State landings are adjusted per state , but stop at the 3 mile line .
Nj boats through the summer could legally land 3000 pounds of fluke per week .
Boats coming from other states fishing the same waters were able to take 30000 pounds as long as they stayed outside the line .

And that’s happening from the Carolina’s to Maine .

No way for a state to address its fisheries while that goes on .

Would think local commercial boats would want to push back on that .
As local landings were bringing over 4 bucks a pound .
Once NC 7 day boats flooded the market price dropped to 60 cents a pound .

Huge drop in your weekly pay when that happens

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Well said!

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Hammer all valid points I agree with. No fishery can be pounded year round as the fluke fishery is and sustain itself. And as I've said ad nauseum, the spawn needs to be protected as does the spawning stock and until those changes are made, if ever, this fishery or any similar fishery will in my opinion be at tremendous risk of being lost to future generations both recreational and commercial. Then what happens to catch values and what stock will supplement the loss of a year round money fish like summer flounder.

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The recs lost out to the commercial guys won plain and simple! (Except for Striped Bass in NJ) Yeah years a go we kept more fish than we should have but it didn't put a dent into the stocks. Not like some trawler dragging the top-bottom and in-between 7 days a week and throwing away more undersized by-catch in a month than the recs catch in a season. Money talks and BS walks you would think? The amount of money spent on rec fishing has to be sizable? The bottom line is "They want ALL OF THE FIsh" and screw the recs! Oh yes there is a answer but it will cost! Tight Lines!

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I have no issue with restrictions on imperiled species, but the restrictions keep coming even after populations rebound. Black sea bass and red snapper would be great examples of fisheries that should be back to year round seasons. Locally, effectively closing black sea bass during the summer has negatively impacted ling and even fluke.

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Sea bass are crushing the lobster fishery .
It’s crazy how many we catch in ruff areas that throw up a 3-4” lobster . Or have claws sticking out of their mouths .

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Back in the 70’s there were not many stripers in RB. Even at the 18” size limit a landed Striper was newspaper worthy. Fred B+T would run a tournament every year and there were 20 legal bass checked in at best. Once the commercial take was removed and the bunker protected…look at us now.

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We see the same thing on our night trips.

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Just like I think the abundance of striped bass are effecting the Fluke in Raritan Bay. They need to increase the sea bass catch to at least 5 during the summer. This would take a lot of pressure off of the Fluke in the ocean. And also help the recreational fishing industry. People want to come home with some fresh fish.

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Won't happen.. have you guys seen the price of a skinny 13 inch one pound sea bass???.. 20 something bucks up here at wegmans on ice and so old the gills are grey and the eyes are white.. even an iced 1 1/2 pound bluefish is probably 12-13 bucks or more these days... Fluke?.. Flounder?... insanity prices, more than shrimp.. Yet people pay it.. As long as they do, the ocean will get raped... Simply too much money to be made, and THATS the priority...

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Just remember the higher the price, the more tax dollars generated for federal and state governments. Who do you honestly think will win, the politicians or baby fluke and lobster?

With recreational they could care less about what you catch, it's all about fishing effort and how much you spend on the water. Which is why the regulations for '24 and '25 will be 3 at 18" with an extended season so there's more money spent and tax dollars collected.

Increased catch values for the commercial sector and increased fishing effort for the recreational sector, that's what the entire focus of fisheries management has boiled down to as it relates to saltwater fisheries management. And that doesn't bode well for the future of saltwater stocks.