Striper Controversy Spreading
 

https://vineyardgazette.com/news/201...et-stripers-be

As you can see, the striper controversy is spreading. The most dangerous comments involve a favorable nod toward a moratorium. It's very obvious that the huge numbers of "big girls/cows" have dwindled lately, yet there are still lots of small fish in the surf and rivers every year. That is encouraging. The decision seems to be about size versus numbers/quality versus quantity. The fishing community has to decide, before others do it for us.

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I'm usually catch and release unless I don't think the fish has a chance, that's my own rule I impose on myself, especially in the spring. I can see the other side of it though where people want to be able to have the choice to keep or not.

Hope there is a middle ground somewhere that allows for the species to rebound and let people keep a couple for the dinner table.

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Kinda like shooting yourself in the foot.

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There are more short and schoolie bass around now, specifically in our area, then I can remember in my 43 years. You can almost catch them anywhere during the "season" and at times, it's not even fair. I've had 20-30 fish HOURS this past season, on the inside, outside, wherever, well into the month of December.

Yes there has been a drop in bigger fish being caught, but as we've discussed many times, migratory routes have changed drastically due to bait staying offshore so a good amount of those true jumbo spawners have hung well off the beach during their migrations.

I think the new regs will help even more and will allow for all of these little fish to grow up and make even more of them.

Gotta love the abundance of the little fish!

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Like they said,menhaden have been over fished and that could impact striper population. Thanks again fisheries management and greedy commercial reduction boats. Some people get rich and the rest of us get screwed as usual.

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Believe it or not, there seems to be more bunkers than ever. There were some mornings way back in the day when we would ride through tide lines of dead bunkers in Sandy Hook Bay. They were discards from bunker boats that were fishing in the bays. Now, there are bunkers up and down the coast well into the summer.

Nevertheless.......even the fishermen in New England have noticed a big decline in larger bass up there.

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Yes a lot more Bunker around our area then I can remember and with them, more whales then I've ever seen. We even have boats dedicated to whale watching now. I don't think Bunker is the issue here, although it's something we need to keep an eye on.... Also looks like Virginia is finally taking some steps to keep the companies like Omega in check https://chesapeakebaymagazine.com/fe...wXCKAKpSym4_RE

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"ROD AND REEL WILL NEVER HARM AN OCEAN FISHERY. Period."

I thought the same for years, then like I said about 10 years ago I watched that massive school of striped bass sit off Long Beach Island for about 2 months. For those 2 months during the fall you could walk across the boats that pounded that school. Surf fishermen were stacked up on the beach, this was an all out striped bass "slaughter" if you will. Boats were blazing out of Manasquan inlet at 4am to be "first on the fish" They fished that massive school that stretched for miles until every last fish was caught.

What about the disappearance of bluefish, maybe too many overloaded burlap sacks ???

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Was it really that bad? When people catch fish it is a slaughter?The reason they fished it everyday is because they were there! They migrate and then there gone. As far as the burlap sacks full of bluefish it is total bs.That was years ago. People bring ice and only take what they need.As far as posting a picture of a boat with a nice bass ? The guy was probably proud as hell.Do you take pictures of trout in Round Valley? Do you keep any?Come on Andy give us a break.

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Very well said! people seem to forget that!

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Nothing could be further from the truth .
The 10 percent that catch the majority of fish care.
The other 90 percent need to kill every fish they catch.
The need to justify the cost to fish to them is how much they take home.

.the 10% have no issue releasing fish because they know they will catch more and also are just happy to be fishing .

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Sorry Dan - No great surprise but as usual, I respectfully disagree with you...

There are way more people in the last 5 to 10 years that are more conservation minded and concerned about the resource. Education or lack thereof was the problem back then and people thought the resources was endless... I admittedly I was one of those guys who had a burlap bag of Bluefish back in the day, most of which wound up buried in the garden for fertilizer.

I think most deeply care about the resource and I've seen the change. People going out of there way reviving fish they want to release... Will those same people keep a few for the table, sure but not like it they did years ago where everything that was of legal size ended up in the cooler.

The change for me was probably 15 years ago... I caught a beautiful Striper that was over 40 pounds and my personal best.. When we saw that fish laying on the deck, me and my buddy Bill were thinking two different things.

My Adrenalin was off the charts and my first instinct was to take that fish back to the dock, show it off and win the annual marina fishing contest for Stripers and put it on the wall.

Bill was thinking otherwise and shared his thoughts with me about releasing it, along with some encouragement from a local fishing charter captain that was fishing next to us and watched the whole thing go down.. So, I reluctantly put her back in the net and back in the water and we revived her.

On the ride back to the marina after the Adrenalin wore off, I remember thinking to myself how I may have felt seeing that fish laying in the cockpit and how glad I was I released it. It was my decision to do so but that decision may be different for others...

That's my perspective so lets talk about a different one..

Like you, I've got my own boat and can fish whenever I want and I have plenty of access to fresh fish whenever I want. What about the guy who fishes occasionally, maybe on a charter or party boat... He has a choice to make, so what's wrong with him keeping fish? After all, I keep fish occasionally and what I decide to keep over a year of fishing is probably more than he'll keep only going out once or twice a year.

And I've talked about this a lot... What if this fish were a Fluke? Funny how people freak out when they see a dead Striper laying on the deck but a Fluke is fair game. They're both fish and a conservation argument could be made that releasing the Fluke is more important since their stocks are reportedly in more trouble then Stripers.

Having said all of this I have 2 main concerns and what I tend to want to fight for and those are access and the long term health of our fisheries. By access, I mean the right for us to continue to fish for as many days as possible and at least be able to keep something. I'll trade lower bag limits to have the opportunity to fish more days. As far as the long term health of our fisheries, I think more and more our recreational fishermen get that and are willing to make the necessary sacrifices to keep things in check.

So I guess my main points here are we need to be careful to respect and not pass judgment on other people's perspectives since they're situations and opinions to keep or not keep as fish are not the same as ours.... That however should not be at the expense of the fishery, it's everyone's duty to protect the resource and balance access with the health of the fishery.

Lastly, and I think something we can all agree on, it's fairly obvious that the current way our fisheries are being managed aren't working for the fish or the fisherman and this needs to change.

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"People bring ice and only take what they need."
I worked deck on a bluefish party boat, you should have seen all the full burlap sacks of fish left behind.

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Agreed and a total waste of the resource but you're beating a dead horse here Andy... How many years ago was that and do you see that going on now?

Another question for you.... Will you ever keep another fish? I think probably not a Striper, at least not a big Striper but my guess is you'd keep a Tuna or a Fluke. If you do, that's you're choice and I don't pass judgement on you for doing that and in turn you shouldn't pass judgment on others for their personal choices.

Now let's go to the extreme... If someone likes to fish but is a conservation minded, the science says that one out of every 10 Stripers caught and released winds up dead. Therefore, the person who caught and released 10, consumed the same amount of resource as a guy who kept 1 and the same as the guy who went to the fish market and bought 1. So what are we to do, stop fishing and or not consume any fish at all??

Yes an extreme example but as long as there are fish in the ocean they are a resource and we should be given access to them. I'm not saying waste them...We should be able to keep and eat them or catch and release them for sport based on our own personal preferences and within the law. If you like fish but not fishing, you should be able to buy them at the market.

If not, than maybe we should turn this site into www.NJPETA.com :rolleyes:

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Well said Andy.

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Actually if you read your own post , you wrote the same thing I said.
You wanted to keep everything (as most of us did ) until you started to catch more fish .
It changes from wanting to catch a fish , to catching a limit , to how fast you can catch a limit , to how many limits you can catch , to man I just want a nice day on the waterv( because you will catch fish .
Too many guys think they need to feed their neighborhood .
And it’s not just here .
I watch when we go To Alaska, guys bringing back 4-500 pounds of fish .
Tracey and I each bring back 50, and that’s too much.
Tell the charter your fishing you will releasing fish thry are dumb founded.
Due to that thinking bag limits and seasons there are getting drastically cut.
The mentality of getting your money’s worth out of a trip is taking opportunity on the water away, not adding to it .

Reasonable bag limits should have been put into effect before there were issues .
Look how many years we could keep 8 fish , now we pray they keep it at 3 and we don’t get cut more .

Just having extra days doesn’t keep guys in business longer either .as less people show up on the boats unless it’s a crazy bite .
Only hard core guys spend the money for 1 big bite , it’s not for the masses extending the seasons.
.

.

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What year was this Andy? What boat did you work on?

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I'm with Gerry also on this. Many more people are conservation minded now. Since I haven't had a boat in 18 months, my perspective has also changed quite a bit. I've caught THOUSANDS of stripers since the summer of 2018, and I have harvested 4 of them, of course legally. Now, I only take what I want and most of the time that's none, or one to two fish (and it's occasionally!) whether it's fluke, seabass, tog when in season, triggers, etc. There's something great about safely releasing a fish rather than seeing it laying on the deck bleeding out.

Yes I was one of those charter guys that had deck shots and coolers filled with dead fish, and believe me there's nothing wrong with that if it's done within the confines of law and if the charter chooses to do so/utilize the fish properly - but when you see things from a different lens your perspective changes quite a bit. Just my $.02!

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Andy i am not picking on you it just that it did happen but years ago.It is also the job of the mate and capt. to tell the people only keep what you need.Years ago we would give the unwanted blues to the mates and they would sell them at the dock. Things change with educating sportsmen. I can count on one hand how many stripers i killed in the last few years.They went to the farmer who lets me deer hunt his property.Dock shots of piles of dead fish suck!!
I was guilty of this years ago but stopped.Take action shots and releases.I agree taking pictures of a pile of dead stripers with there throats cut is shooting yourself in the foot!

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It's bc for better or worse, people look at big stripers as more gamefish than meatfish. That's not a bad thing...and it's an opportunity for the charter industry to capitalize on.

I know I'm beating a dead horse here but...if there's one species we have in the northeast that's akin to tarpon, it's striped bass. And managing for abundance is the best hope for charter/party boat captains in the long run. More fish, more BIG fish = more participation. No one is going fishing if it's a struggle to catch "keepers." People want that legitimate shot of a 40, 50+ lber.

And if you mount a couple gopros on the boat, provide your clients with decent footage of the fight and release of trophy stripers (sooo easy to do in 2020)...my prediction is NO ONE will be complaining about an empty freezer.

That's not what drives the tarpon fishery in Fl, and it shouldn't be what's driving striper fishing up here. People pay for striper charters to break their PBs and make memories, not to fill the freezer. The sooner party/charter boat captains realize this the sooner they can start pushing the right policies to save and grow their business.

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I realize you guys fish everyday, and I accept the fact that you know your business VERY well. Much better than the majority on this forum, myself included of course.. The "every single fish" caught that was posted earlier was indeed a bit of hyperbole, but he is correct in his assertion .

LOCAL fish populations, even large ones, can indeed be "wiped out
for lack of a better term, by recreational fishing in the modern age..

Its been happening a long time.. I have personally witnessed it, and its well documented in both fresh and salt water.. Thinking it can't happen because "salt water" is short sighted thinking.. No ,rec fishing isn't going to drive a salt water fish species into extinction I understand that, but it can and has decimated large populations on well known and heavily pressured structure and /or habitat .. Times have changed.

Todays anglers have equipment, time, skills, information and access that was unthinkable 30 years ago... Things have changed , and anglers can do a lot of damage to fish stocks that get heavy commercial and recreational pressure in local areas... bob

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Anyone fishing the Hudson strain of striped bass knows they are in great shape .
The issue is once they turn the hook they don't have a Hudson tattoo on them .

Not trying to offset catches there because the Chessy fish are hurting would be foolish .

Guys wanting to target bass would flood there because the ocean bite is so bad.


Many guys thought their whole career the ocean bite didn't start till June.
They didn't have to leave the bay .
The ocean fishery in April and May was phenomenal.

And got no where near the pressure it has today .
.
Putting a slot limit coastwide for stripers between 28" and 36" everything else released would insure a great fishery for our kids.

.boats ,equipment ,tactics have made fisherman a highly polished machine.
We can hurt a fishery more than anytime in the past.

.

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Coastwide slot limit makes the most sense,, On several species..

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No question... However multiple thousands an be cleaned off a specific location in short order when they are bunched up, aggressive, and easily accessible..

Enough of those "specific locations" gets hit by the hordes of boats of all sizes, and the fish disappear pretty fast... I know you guys are good at what you do, but thats pretty common these days even among small boaters.. Many of us have been fishing in the NY Bight for 50-60 + years, and have seen what relentless rec pressure can do at certain times, in certain places, for certain species.. Stripers are not exempt to recreational overfishing. bob

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If that was true , why aren’t they staging at the mouth of the Chesapeake to spawn .
If you ever fished that area in the winter you would know there isn’t 1/20th of the bass wintering off VIrginia and North Carolina there once was .
No matter what their migration distance would be passing us , they have to enter the bay to spawn .

YEARS of constantly crushing the prime breeding cows iwhen they are all stacked up there from November to March has hurt the fishery .

.

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I have been on just about every good striper bite for the past 5 years a ranging from Debs to PP. There is no "slaughtering" stripers. If they are bunched up and on the feed, the boat traffic comes in and disperses them. Or they simply go off the feed and they will show up on the fish finder but thats it.

Recreational fishermen have no affect on the population and its mindless to suggest it.

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It's truly remarkable that you can type out that sentence with a straight face.

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The optics seem to present an image that make it hard to argue that the stripers are not being pressured. True or not, scenes like this make it look like the bass are being harvested at an incredible rate. Without real scientific numbers for fisheries managers to analyze, this is what they see. This is what influences their decisions to a degree. You have to admit, it makes you wonder about how many fish were taken by how many fishermen.

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Even though these boats were railed, only a few bass were caught; proving that numbers of fishermen often don't add up to an equal number of caught fish. It's a hard concept to sell to others because of the optics. The impression is that the fishing stocks are being destroyed. All of the pressure does have an effect, but only to a degree. That degree is hard to prove because recreational fishermen don't have to report any numbers. Bonus tags are supposed to be totaled and submitted, but not everyone cooperates.

Te result is that formulas are used to determine the numbers of fish that were caught and those formulas are very skewed.

If you want to keep some fish, keep them. If you want to release them, release them. The rules are set; just play by the rules. If you don't like the rules, work to change them. Just don't fight or argue among ourselves when we disagree with each other. We didn't set the regulations but we all should follow them. It's not for us to tell each other what to do or how to do it. If it's allowed, no one should make you feel like a criminal if you play by the rules.

While I feel that we should conserve the resource, you may feel differently. It's not for me to judge. Keep them or let them go. Just don't waste them. The rules are set. Play by them.

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Exactly!! I have said this before and maybe this will sink in! PARTY BOATS CAN NOT TROLL! They wish they could land fish every trip. As far as the boat traffic goes remember the rule - 10 % of the fishermen catch 90% of the fish. Does anyone believe that every boat out there gets a limit every trip?? Nonsense!There are more boats but many novice anglers. I have ran Party Boats and have stood on the bridge watching boats troll and land stripers while we caught nothing. I have been on the other end and ran my charter boat and when we could not bait them or jig them we could troll them!Just because you see a party boat with 100 patrons does not mean they"slaughtered'' the stripers. As far as private boats go most of my friends fish for sport not meat.Consevation yes closure no.Trust me when i say-If you give up anything you will never get it back and you can take that to the bank!!!!

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I can honestly say that somehow I am getting far worse as a fisherman the older I get..... so without even trying, I am successfully supporting the local B&T shops, Fuel docks, and sandwich shops while simultaneously conserving the Fluke and Striper populations ..... and yet.. I am still having fun :)

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Lot of good points being made. Would like to add my two cents.

In the case of stripers, in many cases the more boats the less fish caught. When I had my boat, it got to a point you had to break the inlet on weekends before dark to have a chance. A half hour and hundreds of boats later made all the difference in the world. When there's too much traffic, in most cases bass turn off.

An interesting story that happened early 2000's. My two buys and I were fluke fishing just north of the red church in close on a sharp drop off of mussel beds that dropped from maybe 15 ft. to 20 ft. Anyone who knows that area knows where I'm talking about. We're out early drifting by ourselves and out of no where large swirls started boiling around us. Time of year was maybe mid June. Wasn't sure what they were but based on the size of the swirls, time of year, time of day we assumed bass. Son was reeling in a 4 ounce white spro, got slammed and landed a bass about 35 lbs. The bass stopped boiling but we were marking them. No bunker around so not sure what they were on but no surface activity. We all switched over to a spro and for maybe a half hour to 45 minutes every cast we hooked up a bass between 30 - 40 lbs. All fish were released, that was our decision. The entire time, the fleet was flying past us north to the rocks and I told my boys when a boat passes, rod tip down and put the reel in free spool. Not one boat stopped. We probably landed and released 20 large bass.

Just for the hell of it, one fish we caught I hooked it in the mouth, tied it to about 100 feet of mono and tied the other end to a balloon we had on board for sharking. Wanted to see where the school went when the traffic built. The fish and school when traffic got too much or the sun too high eventually headed due east as we followed the balloon and continued marking them on the recorder. We got out about 5 miles, pulled the fish back in, unhooked it and off it went. Was very cool.

Point is what I thought would happen did which is what many of us experience on weekends with that fishery. Early or late bight, fish come in to feed on the bunker schools and then scoot back out to get away from the boat traffic and continue their migration.

Things aren't always as they appear. As Billfish mentioned, sometimes the relationship of boats to catch aren't what they appear and in many cases I believe the exact opposite. Optics!

As far as fishery management is concerned in general, there's four ingredients every fishery needs IMO. Strong and healthy recruitment levels which means protect the breeders or protect the spawn, one or the other. Catch levels combined with natural mortality rates those recruitment levels can support, a healthy spread of different age classes and adequate forage to sustain the population. If regulations address each of the four, natures balance should all but guarantee the health and sustainability of the fishery.

Like I said, just my two cents.

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Well its actually predictable that you would be pushing the propaganda that the rod and reel fisherman has done anything but help build fish stocks.

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HAHAHAHA - and look at all the gaffs standing upright in their holders. That is one hell of a "slaughter". I have watched PBs like that all day and seen them catch squat. Nice try but no one is biting.

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So you caught a striper how many miles east ? :-)