Re: cut next year's summer flounder catch by 10 percent
 

There you have it... Instead of working together this failed mentality is part of the problem, thanks! :)

Re: cut next year's summer flounder catch by 10 percent
 

Which is exactly what is supposed to happen. In a perfect world, the regulation changes will increase landings from 2011 to 2012 by nearly 40%. That is what our liberalization was intended to accomplish.

In FOUR dedicated fluke trips this year (I just don't do much fluking), I have landed 89 keepers. 26, 30, 16 and 17. Keepers between 17.5" and 18" on those trips were, respectively, - 2, 1, 3, 7. So 13 of 89 keepers have been as a result of the change in regs for me.

Well thank you for your "driving force" comment, but I don't think that is entirely accurate, polls on numerous sites saw varying interest in change in regs and there were plenty of people that spoke in favor of 17.5" at the NJ meeting, including Tony Bogan's cousin Ray.

The trip where I had 30, that was a 6 person limit. We quit early at the request of the party. Almost all keepers were over 20". So having the 5 fish bag limit was conservationally beneficial and the people were beyond satisfied. One of the four days resulted in a nice box of fish thanks to the 17.5" size limit. I have gotten numerous calls, texts and e-mails from folks that have gotten "a few more fish" as well as people that are more enthusiastic about going fishing as their prospects of getting a keeper are better. Word from this board and in person contacts from up north all reiterate similar sentiments as what hammer4reel posted, so many fish are over 18" that the 5 fish creel limit is more effective at constraining landings this year.

So yes, I absolutely and unequivocally stand by my support of going to 17.5". Many, many people have seen a benefit while the consequence of the lower creel limit has an overall lesser effect on fewer people.

As I stated long ago, I understand there are a number of sharpies on this board that can catch 8 18" fish, and my hat is off to them. They can voice their discontent with the regs, but for them, the 5 fish creel limit should be constraining harvest and making moot the argument of "I knew 17.5 in. size limit would dramatically increase landings".

Re: cut next year's summer flounder catch by 10 percent
 

1.) Ok so why should you have a say in anything fluke if you do 4 trips a year?

2.) You stated- "So having the 5 fish bag limit was conservationally beneficial and the people were beyond satisfied. "

How many shorts did you catch between 14" and 17", lets say it was 10:1 shorts to keepers. How many of those fish are alive now? (around 14" the fluke probably mated once or twice already this is why I am asking)

3.) You know as well as I do that the numbers offered are a dangling carrot to starving people. This is a type of vote where the fisherman always loses, yet you know this and say you are for the fishermen... Hmmmm.

You know that regardless of the harvest those numbers they gave you to pick from was a joke, pick what you picked and pushed hard for it to go through from what I have just heard, and when you go over raise the size lower the creel. Same goes the other way, not reach your target and they can come and say the fluke are on the decline and do the same thing as before raise size lower creel.

You end up in the same spot no matter what. Its funny for a guy preaching "know the facts" you sure hided a lot of things there Capt. I don't trust guys like that do these things, here in Brooklyn we call people like this rats, snakes.

Re: cut next year's summer flounder catch by 10 percent
 

And your post is still up?Don't need this kind of thing.What have you done to help the cause?Monday morning quarterback!!!

Re: cut next year's summer flounder catch by 10 percent
 

Well said, couldn't agree more!

Re: cut next year's summer flounder catch by 10 percent
 

I just want to point out that New York has very tough regulations now because of their poor management decisions in the past that caused them to exceed their quotas thereby forcing them to have their current strict regulations. Thankfully the NJMFC made wiser choices which resulted in us not exceeding our quotas in most years.
We are all getting ahead of ourselves for next year. As Adam said we do not know what the results of the survey will show. However, those interested need to get more involved by voicing thier opinions to those who manage our fisheries rather than just complaining here.
I too was unhappy with this years regualtions that were set by the commercial representatives on our NJMFC against the recommendation of the fluke advisory committee and the recreational representatives on the council. It is very unfair that there are more commercial representatives on the council than recreational ones.

Paul Haertel
2nd VP JCAA

Re: cut next year's summer flounder catch by 10 percent
 

Only fish a handful of fluke trips per year because of what the size limit has historically meant to anglers south of Barnegat, very few legal fish. Used to target fluke much more, but simply can't take people's money to bring them home with an empty fish box. Since fluke is not the bulk of my business, it also allows me to make objective decisions about what regulations will mean to the greatest number of people. Most find that input beneficial, YMMV.


The 2 better days we've had very few shorts, 2 throwbacks per keeper. The 2 days with keeper catches in the teens 5 - 1 throwbacks to keepers. I think we've gut hooked 3 fish this year. Very low mortality.

The direction of this thread is where the fishermen always lose. What is anyone fighting about in this thread, to say "I'm right" about a system that uses as it's basis a less than 1% sampling rate? There is no "right" about a system like that. The system is broke, and when we the fishermen continue to fight like this it only demonstrates that we aren't more than pawns in the game.

Hiding? 609-618-0366. Give a ring, if I don't pick up please leave a message and I'll be sure to get back to you. Thanks, and have a pleasant evening.

Re: cut next year's summer flounder catch by 10 percent
 

The frustration is that the RFA supported the 2012 regulations when it seems most of the folks do not. The people send their money to the RFA because they are told the RFA is the voice of the people.

The other frustration I think the folks are having is the RFA tells you if it was not for us, things would be worse. When the government closed sea bass on October 4, 2009, what was worse than that? Again, what was worse than that? And don't tell the people well, it got better. I am talking about that day. October 4, 2009. We had a sudden closure of sea bass and fluke had been closed for some time.

2013 seems like another reduction for fluke. Maybe the RFA could tell the people what the action plan is to fight this. How will the RFA use the people's funds to combat the impending 2013 fluke situation? People send you checks and go on fishing trips that donate to RFA. I think you owe the people an explination on how you will combat this impending situation. And who knows, maybe it can be a win. Maybe a loss. But at least tell the people where their money is going to combat this and other reduced fishery seasons. You owe it to the people who donate to the RFA.


I don't think the other gentleman is trying to fight you, I think he is just so frustrated with these threats from the government about reduced season and such while at the same time the RFA asks for money to keep America fishing.

I am not trying to fight you either, I am just trying to stop the current fight. I think all the people are asking is come clean with what their money is being used for.

Re: cut next year's summer flounder catch by 10 percent
 

Paul with all do respect, we did not go over anything. Actually we were under in many seasons, and the funny thing about one particular year where we lost half the fleet and actually had a 2 week closure in the middle of our fluke season mind you with only half a fleet so not many boats for all of LI actually targeting fluke we went over and it was For 2009, the minimum size limit was 21 inches, compared to 20.5 the year before. The bag limit was two fish, down from four. Additionally, there was a split season:

Open: May 15 – June 15.

Closed: June 16 – July 2.

Open: July 3 – August 17.

Closed thereafter.

And we still went over because of BS Data from the MRFSS, that boarded vessels and took numbers down in surveys.

Care to challenge these facts? :)

Re: cut next year's summer flounder catch by 10 percent
 

Very well written and said! :)