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Re: The Cost Of Not Having A New Jersey Salt Water License

I siad I would not respond to this nonsense anymore, but since Kensdock has taken it upon himself to talk about things which he does not understand, let's try to educate him.

He may be unable to assimilate this information, so next time I might have to type using crayons:rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kensdock

The party boat and charter boat organization is missing the opportunity to be involved in the saltwater license bill.They also are risking the position of leverage they hold at this time.

They could use the position to demand the following in exchange for supporting a salt water license:

Make the charter and party boat industry limited entry.

And he thinks this is a good idea, to limit the amount of competition,(which to someone who does not know anything about running a business that may seem like a good idea) and at the same time limit your capacity to expand your own business, and pigeonhole your industry into a finite number of businesses, and thereby make you easier to eliminate. Look at the commercial industry since they have done a similar thing. They are now nearing extinction.

Quote:

A free license to party boat and charter for the first five years

The federal registry already exempts party and charterboats, even after the fee would be implemented (not saying I want a federal registry by the way)
Kens brilliant idea is for party and charterboats to give up the exemption and start paying in a few years. Yes, that is truly a genius suggestion.

Quote:

The size limit for flounder a half inch shorter on p&c boats

Showing his total lack of understanding of how the system works and how regulations are promulgated, Kensdock ignores the fact that the state does not have the authority to simply make the size limit on party and charterboats an inch shorter:rolleyes:

Quote:

Increase the requirements to operate example: pass a test that indicates you have the knowledge required to catch fish with a council made up of captains that make the final decision .

Again, Kensdock ignores the fact that such a system is not allowed, and the state of NJ is not likely to discriminate against people in such a manner. Forget the fact that "passing a test that indicates you have knowledge required to catch fish" is probably the most ridiculous thing I have ever read on this site or any other (except perhaps on fishinghurts.com)

Quote:

The ability to fish for flounder and seas bass during the closed season.

Yet again, kensdock ignore the fact that the state has no such authority, since it is a federal closure we are talking about.

Does anyone here actually take this guy seriously? Why are we even entertaining such completely nonsensical ramblings? Can you believe someone would actually type this crap and expect people to buy it?

Wow, at least now I know that I can ignore this BS, this is probably the stupidest "explanation" and "correction" of misinformation I have ever had to deal with. Should have stuck to my original plan of ignoring this crap. Well, it's never too late to start again!!:D

Ken, it is apparent from the above quoted comments that you really took my advice to heart and hit the books and learned how the system works. I can now confidently say that you really "went to school" to learn about fisheries management. I even got a picture of you wearing your new college t-shirt

http://rlv.zcache.com/totally_cluele...51tdf9_210.jpg

Re: The Cost Of Not Having A New Jersey Salt Water License

Capt., Limited entry for the party and charter boat industry would increase the value of the business the minute the law was signed. It has worked well for commercial fishermen. Ask truex of the clamming industry, Ask Danny Cowen of the fishing industry, Ask any scalloper. Ask Genovese of the tuna fishing boats Ask them if it would help their business if everyone with a boat and captains license could enter their fishery!

As it stands now anyone with a boat and a captains license that can be bought for a few dollars can open up party boat or charter boat business! You think that is good for business!!

Many states require a guides license. Yes there is a test you need to pass. Sample questions: What type of bottom are you lest likely to find flounder? What should the drag be set at if you are fishing for white marlin? I think most captains would agree if you can not answer simple questions like these you have no business charging people to fish with you.

It must have been a while since you have gone fishing the state of nj waters offer excellent fishing for sea bass and flounder.There already is an option to fish in federal waters during the closed season. You have the opportunity to use your leverage to make it happen for all charter and party boats in NJ.

I was talking about a NJ saltwater license NOT a free register. If the party and charter boats were exempt from any license fee for five years when a license is require to fish in saltwater anyplace else I can assure you that will help business.

Capt.TB, As far as the size limit being a inch shorter for p&c boats Captain sometimes you have to make things happen!

How does a free register help your business? Why not support a NJ saltwater license and be involved in writing the law. Making sure it is advantages to your business. This is a once in a generation opportunity for your business.

Re: The Cost Of Not Having A New Jersey Salt Water License

Kensdock,

"It is sometimes better to sit and remain silent, rather than to speak and be thought the fool"....... author unknown

Please take heed to that saying. While I don't agree with most of your posts. I respect your right to offer them. However, this license issue takes the cake! Your skewed tunnel vision view goads me into, yet, another reply.

I just can't understand what side you are on. It is as if you are kind of in your own private little fiefdom, of which you preside as king. You continue to express many views as being factual. However, when taken to task, and chided for proof, you manage to tap dance around those direct queries. Using terms like just ask so and so, or I recall. Time and again you never provide exacting proof. You spout out rule changes, none having any merit. Nor, could they pass the smell test if they were ever to get into a legal arena. Provide a bibliography that pertains to your "facts". PLEASE!

My take on getting captains tested for their fishing knowlege is yet another way of starting one more very costly beauracracy. There are people in all walks of life that are untested business owners. If a certain captain doesn't produce due to his lack of fishing knowledge. He won't remain in business very long. Not unlike the lousy house painter or the bad carpenter. I have a greater concern that I have a safe return to port. That is why they ARE licensed as captains. Just because a captain knows, book wise, how to fish. It doesn't mean he can put a catch together. No more than a carpenter can build a house.

I believe you also intend to depredate all recreational fishermen, marina owners, gas docks, etc.etc. When only the party and charter guys have the closed season rights. Who will be doing these things? Drive the wedge Ken, drive the wedge. Did someone say incite a riot? Divide and conquer that one really works well.

Some of these comments wouldn't EVER make any sense. How a license fits in is anybodys guess.

Get over it already. NO LICENSE EVER!

Pete

Re: The Cost Of Not Having A New Jersey Salt Water License

People like Kensdock provides a great service to this site. He constantly reminds us of how proposed and current rulings and regulations can be spun and mis-interpreted by the general public.

It also gives Capt. TB who is knowledgeable, has legitimate experience and contacts to decipher and dis-spell the inaccurate and misconstrued beliefs of the ignorant individual with a "different agenda."

Leif

Re: The Cost Of Not Having A New Jersey Salt Water License

Kensdock:

I have an idea...I will pay $20.00 for the saltwater license fee if you (and every other liberal, corrupt NJ and Federal politician) can guarantee me the following in writing:

1. NJ fluke limits: 8 fish at 16": Season: May 1st to October 30th

2. NJ Blackfish limits: 8 fish at 14". (closed season, if any TBD)

3. Stripers: As is...no changes there for me.

4. Bluefin tuna: One BFT per person: 27 to 47", One bonus 47"+ BFT per boat.

5. Yellowfin tuna: I am fine as is...

6. Seabass: 15 per person, 12" min. No closed season.

So here is my $20.00...take it. Go build your fish farms so you can stock fluke (flounder), tuna, blackfish etc. We have more fish than ever before so these regulations should be fine.

I want this in writing because there is no way in hell I am paying for a paid Extortion Saltwater License fee without it. Not on my watch!

Thx

Joe T.

Re: The Cost Of Not Having A New Jersey Salt Water License

Why has NJ not applied for the hundreds of millions of dollars in stimulus money available for saltwater hatcheries?

Why does NJ not have the staff to responsibly manage our saltwater fish?

Re: The Cost Of Not Having A New Jersey Salt Water License

Why not answer the previous questions that responses are requested . You just keep rambling without ever responding to what is asked of you. If you think you know best either prove it or stop rocking the boat!!!

Re: The Cost Of Not Having A New Jersey Salt Water License

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kensdock

Capt., Limited entry for the party and charter boat industry would increase the value of the business the minute the law was signed.

Quote:

It has worked well for commercial fishermen. Ask truex of the clamming industry, Ask Danny Cowen of the fishing industry, Ask any scalloper. Ask Genovese of the tuna fishing boats Ask them if it would help their business if everyone with a boat and captains license could enter their fishery!

Helped huh? Sure, Danny Cohen is thrilled, but the dozens of guys that are now GONE with instead only 2 people who control nearly the ENTIRE clam industry in NJ (a -not a knock on Danny Cohen b- I did not say the entire, I said NEARLY the entire)

Ask the Scallop boats? You mean like all the day boats that have made a living off of scallops for the past 5 years who have now been eliminated from the industry? Like the two boats currently being scrapped at Yanks?

Sure Ken, I'll listen to you:rolleyes:

Quote:

As it stands now anyone with a boat and a captains license that can be bought for a few dollars can open up party boat or charter boat business! You think that is good for business!!

ABSOFRIGGINLUTELY!!!!!! It's called free market enterprise and capitalism Ken, welcome to the United States!

Every time some hammerhead without a clue opens a partyboat business the people fish with him/her ONCE and then come running back to those that actually know what they are doing. If someone "good" starts up a business, that's life!! I did not ask for "limited entry" in the riverboat business when one in the highlands and one in Toms River opened up years after my 2 boats. Instead, I fought to keep and expand my business and do it "better" than the competition. That's why it is called "competition."

Perhaps people like yourself would rather see the government do your job for you and prevent you from having to run an operation better than the competition and instead eliminate your competition so you can stay stagnant.

I'll stick with good old fashioned competition thank you very much.

Quote:

It must have been a while since you have gone fishing the state of nj waters offer excellent fishing for sea bass and flounder.

There you go again, talking about a business of which you have no understanding. Had you a clue of how things work you'd realize how stupid that statement really is.

Quote:

There already is an option to fish in federal waters during the closed season.

No, there is an option that costs THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS to BUY FISH and then land them, and currently the state of NJ DOES NOT ALLOW IT. NY does, NJ does not.

Also, the option of which you speak expires 12/31/09 and has a finite amount of quota available. Next years RSA auction hasn't happened yet, so again you speak of that which you do not understand.

Quote:

You have the opportunity to use your leverage to make it happen for all charter and party boats in NJ.

Wrong again. Unless of course you suggest that all the party and charterboats in NJ could buy 100% of the 3% of the quota for sea bass and actually turn a profit (forget it, apparently a 5 year old, according to you, can understand it and since you obviously do not understand any of this what does that tell you?

Quote:

Capt.TB, As far as the size limit being a inch shorter for p&c boats Captain sometimes you have to make things happen!

Yeah, OK, thanks for that Ken, I guess the fact that you would have to change the entire fisheries management system for the United States to allow states to simply change the regs in whatever manner they wished is not important:rolleyes:

Quote:

How does a free register help your business? Why not support a NJ saltwater license and be involved in writing the law. Making sure it is advantages to your business. This is a once in a generation opportunity for your business.

How? Gee, hmmmmmmm lemme think here.

So if everyone has to pay for a license to fish in any other way EXCEPT on a partyboat, how does that help?

Hmmmmm, perhaps I need to go to the Kensdock school of business...
I hear it is a bustling business university......
http://www.hayesgalleries.com/images...%204050135.jpg

Re: The Cost Of Not Having A New Jersey Salt Water License

http://www.st.nmfs.noaa.gov/st5/publ...ables_Econ.pdf 1.34 million nj recreational fishermen * 32 dollar saltwater license 42.8 million dollars raised annually

Re: The Cost Of Not Having A New Jersey Salt Water License

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptTB

Yeah, only if I WANT TO SELL IT!!!!

However, if I want to EXPAND my business I would then have to purchase an already existing boat and permit, and/or be restricted in the ability to increase the size of my vessel (EVERY commercial permit has a limit on the increase in size and horsepower you are allowed...bet you did not know that one either!!)

I BUILD the boats I want, not buy what someone else wanted. With limited entry I do not have that ability.

Please stop trying to pretend you know more about the for-hire industry than my family that has been in it since the 1920's:rolleyes:

Helped huh? Sure, Danny Cohen is thrilled, but the dozens of guys that are now GONE with instead only 2 people who control nearly the ENTIRE clam industry in NJ (a -not a knock on Danny Cohen b- I did not say the entire, I said NEARLY the entire)

Ask the Scallop boats? You mean like all the day boats that have made a living off of scallops for the past 5 years who have now been eliminated from the industry? Like the two boats currently being scrapped at Yanks?

Sure Ken, I'll listen to you:rolleyes:

ABSOFRIGGINLUTELY!!!!!! It's called free market enterprise and capitalism Ken, welcome to the United States!

Every time some hammerhead without a clue opens a partyboat business the people fish with him/her ONCE and then come running back to those that actually know what they are doing. If someone "good" starts up a business, that's life!! I did not ask for "limited entry" in the riverboat business when one in the highlands and one in Toms River opened up years after my 2 boats. Instead, I fought to keep and expand my business and do it "better" than the competition. That's why it is called "competition."

Perhaps people like yourself would rather see the government do your job for you and prevent you from having to run an operation better than the competition and instead eliminate your competition so you can stay stagnant.

I'll stick with good old fashioned competition thank you very much.

There you go again, talking about a business of which you have no understanding. Had you a clue of how things work you'd realize how stupid that statement really is.

No, there is an option that costs THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS to BUY FISH and then land them, and currently the state of NJ DOES NOT ALLOW IT. NY does, NJ does not.

Also, the option of which you speak expires 12/31/09 and has a finite amount of quota available. Next years RSA auction hasn't happened yet, so again you speak of that which you do not understand.

Wrong again. Unless of course you suggest that all the party and charterboats in NJ could buy 100% of the 3% of the quota for sea bass and actually turn a profit (forget it, apparently a 5 year old, according to you, can understand it and since you obviously do not understand any of this what does that tell you?

Yeah, OK, thanks for that Ken, I guess the fact that you would have to change the entire fisheries management system for the United States to allow states to simply change the regs in whatever manner they wished is not important:rolleyes:

How? Gee, hmmmmmmm lemme think here.

So if everyone has to pay for a license to fish in any other way EXCEPT on a partyboat, how does that help?

Hmmmmm, perhaps I need to go to the Kensdock school of business...
I hear it is a bustling business university......
http://www.hayesgalleries.com/images...%204050135.jpg

TB, You are a funny son *****
That is fine for the riverboat business. With the fishing business you are dealing with a limited resource.The industry is so regulated that they deserve limilted entry.The resource will only support so many boats.