% of Fluke Caught by Party and Charter boats vs Private Boats

[MVP]

Recieved this email from Capt Monty Hawkins from the Party Boat the Morning Star out of Ocean City, MD. Please read question he posed below and respond back with your answer.
Thanks
Alex


Hi Alex,
I need to know, an estimate really, what percentage of fluke are caught by
For-Hire Party & Charter Boats VS Private Boats..
Something simple like I think For-Hire might catch 25% & the Private Boats catch 75%..
Two estimates really - one for high summer, & one for shoulder seasons.
I'd sure appreciate it.
I have NOAA's attention with this...
Cheers,
Monty

[Angler Paul]

It's probably over 90℅ by the private sector because of their sheer numbers. The MRIP numbers show stuff like that. Here is the link to the site that has that info: http://www.st.nmfs.noaa.gov/st1//recreational/queries/index.html

[Blackfish Doug]

It's simple they know Party Boats & charter boats keep records of what they catch & report them. Recreational fisherman don't this is why we get these bogus numbers. Not everyone who owns a boat fish but they don't look at it that way that's why the numbers are over inflated. If you look at the numbers you would find it to be so over exaggerated it's not funny.

[1captainron]

It's simple they know Party Boats & charter boats keep records of what they catch & report them. Recreational fisherman don't this is why we get these bogus numbers. Not everyone who owns a boat fish but they don't look at it that way that's why the numbers are over inflated. If you look at the numbers you would find it to be so over exaggerated it's not funny.

Not true Doug, most of us don't keep records as we are not required unless you have a Federal permit. I gave that up years ago when we found out that all the reports were bullshit anyway and just ended up sitting in a Ware house in Woods Hole, the data was never used.

[Dclark2]

I believe that the charter and party boat catch has a much higher percent per angler then private boat angler. I would think that private boats might catch half of what charter boats do and 75 percent of what party boats do. You have to figure that a large percent of party boat clients in the summer are tourists which aren't likely to be seasoned fishermen. Party boat captains are on an equal par with charter captains its just the amount of people and those that they are working with to put fish in the boat.

[Capt. Lou]

I would go wirh Paul on this one 80 to 90% fluke are caught by private boats due to overwhelming numbers fishing in comparison to PB 's !

[Capt Sal]

I believe that the charter and party boat catch has a much higher percent per angler then private boat angler. I would think that private boats might catch half of what charter boats do and 75 percent of what party boats do. You have to figure that a large percent of party boat clients in the summer are tourists which aren't likely to be seasoned fishermen. Party boat captains are on an equal par with charter captains its just the amount of people and those that they are working with to put fish in the boat.

Tourists are just that.They frequent the party boats and it is a day on the water and a good time. Most private boat owners are good anglers and so are the friends they take. There are hundreds of private boats to one one party boat.Charter boats only are as good as the anglers they have on board.They carry six on an average or less.I think the private sector lands more fluke.

[reason162]

I have NOAA's attention with this...
Cheers,
Monty

Good lord if NOAA will give any weight to w/e "results" this "survey" yields we're in bigger trouble than I thought.

[Capt. Debbie]

That's a guess. What one person knows who catches fish on each boat and type of boat and is aware of what happens 7 days a week.

I very seriously doubt even the biggest bullshj*ter could even answer that.



Recieved this email from Capt Monty Hawkins from the Party Boat the Morning Star out of Ocean City, MD. Please read question he posed below and respond back with your answer.
Thanks
Alex


Hi Alex,
I need to know, an estimate really, what percentage of fluke are caught by
For-Hire Party & Charter Boats VS Private Boats..
Something simple like I think For-Hire might catch 25% & the Private Boats catch 75%..
Two estimates really - one for high summer, & one for shoulder seasons.
I'd sure appreciate it.
I have NOAA's attention with this...
Cheers,
Monty

[Capt. Debbie]

Party boats operate seven days a week and carry (if lucky) 10 or 20x the number of anglers as a single private boat.


I would go wirh Paul on this one 80 to 90% fluke are caught by private boats due to overwhelming numbers fishing in comparison to PB 's !

[ALS Mako]

I believe the for hire sector catches a greater share than people realize. Most boats fish 7 days a week ( weather permiting of course) as for rec boat owners I beliveve most are weekend fishermen. I know alot of guys with their own boats do trips during the week but I think the fair share are on the water weekends. That being said, and the shear # of for higher boats ou there, I would thinke the for hire segment would be resposible for around 35 to 40 percent of keepers caught. That's just my opinion. Also does where does the land based angler fit into all this

[hammer4reel]

Party boats and charter boats are fishing 7 days a week.

most recreational fisherman are fishing 1 day a week.

a bad day on a party boat is 40 keepers a good day may well be over a 100. so lets take an average of 70. that almost 500 fluke a week .

to catch that many on 1 day of fishing for private guys would take probably 200 guys fishing, so possibly 50 boats or more.( using the thread of how many guys catch a limit that was posted here)

so while there are alot of recreational boats fishing just due to the party boats being on the water MORE the numbers of fisherman they carry . I would say once adding charter boats to their side its more than likely 50% to for hire and the same 50% for recs.

[Capt. Debbie]

All things being equal skill all fishermen catch fish.

In a seven day period are the more rods held by private boats & beach folk or on pay boats? In plain English, the # people fishing in a seven day week. Is a perfect sample. Not weekends alone.

In Raritan Bay on a great Saturday-Sunday, say 100 private boats with four guys. That's 800 fisherman-days on Saturday and Sunday. Add the small population of 50 boats Monday-Friday with four guys (likely less that 4). Make it a 1000 fisherman-days per Summer seven day week. A week is a fair and repeated sample.

While in Raritan Bay including NY and NJ boats there are probably conservatively 50 charter/party boats per day. So 7 day x 50 boats= 350 boat-days per week. It's likely more.

Here's the pay off...
For private fishermen in a seven day week we have 1000 fisherman days.
For that same 7 day period with 350 boat-days (party-charter boats per week) ... 1000/350 means that per trip pay boats to be equal have less than 3 fares. Rediculously low!

So if party/charter boats average 15 people per day over a week or 15 fares x350 boat-days. THE RESULT is 5250 guys holding fishing rods during a seven day week on party/charter versus 1000 private guys. The math is: 5.25 to 1 ratio of pay fishermen to private fishermen in a seven day period in Raritan bay.

So about 5:1 for Raritan Bay for NY & NJ boaters favoring PAY boats over private boaters & Beach fishermen.

Thoughts?



Party boats and charter boats are fishing 7 days a week.

most recreational fisherman are fishing 1 day a week.

a bad day on a party boat is 40 keepers a good day may well be over a 100. so lets take an average of 70. that almost 500 fluke a week .

to catch that many on 1 day of fishing for private guys would take probably 200 guys fishing, so possibly 50 boats or more.( using the thread of how many guys catch a limit that was posted here)

so while there are alot of recreational boats fishing just due to the party boats being on the water MORE the numbers of fisherman they carry . I would say once adding charter boats to their side its more than likely 50% to for hire and the same 50% for recs.

[Billfish715]

Here we go! This topic is a slippery slope. The opinions are just opinions and not facts. What is starting to happen is another "divide" between fishing groups. Does anyone else see it?

Now, it's private boats vs. party boats. Next, it will be small private charters vs. larger charter vessels. This opinion survey can do nothing but foster bad feelings between fishermen. The "data" from the survey is meaningless and far from scientific.

Who cares who catches more? This issue used to be between recreational anglers and commercial fishermen. Now, we're breaking down the recreational sector into boaters who can afford their own boats vs. boaters who can't. It's the have's vs. the have not's. It's big boat fishermen vs. small boat fishermen.

Stay united! Don't pit one fisherman against another. Don't fall into the trap by criticizing one another. Catch what you catch and keep quiet. Nobody likes a chest-beater who brags about how good he is at the expense of someone else.

[Capt Sal]

Here we go! This topic is a slippery slope. The opinions are just opinions and not facts. What is starting to happen is another "divide" between fishing groups. Does anyone else see it?

Now, it's private boats vs. party boats. Next, it will be small private charters vs. larger charter vessels. This opinion survey can do nothing but foster bad feelings between fishermen. The "data" from the survey is meaningless and far from scientific.

Who cares who catches more? This issue used to be between recreational anglers and commercial fishermen. Now, we're breaking down the recreational sector into boaters who can afford their own boats vs. boaters who can't. It's the have's vs. the have not's. It's big boat fishermen vs. small boat fishermen.

Stay united! Don't pit one fisherman against another. Don't fall into the trap by criticizing one another. Catch what you catch and keep quiet. Nobody likes a chest-beater who brags about how good he is at the expense of someone else.
On a large charter it is often a company trip.Two or three out of fifty know how to fish.Many and i mean many anglers that go on a party boat come home with nothing.There are very good fishermen that go on party boats often and do well.It is a proven fact that 10% of the fishermen catch 90% of the fish. This is all a guess. Because a party boat on a given day carries 100 people it does not mean they had a big catch.This is probably how NOAA gets there count on a head count.Not science and not accurate.

[Billfish715]

I just hope we all don't start pointing fingers at one another this season. There will certainly be a divide between fishermen in a crowded spot when the bite is on. The mosquito fleet of private boaters which converge on the party boats which are fishing for a living must raise some ire. Private captains often have a disdain for the number of baits that a party boat can work over a much wider swath of bottom than the small boat fishermen can. The party boat captains certainly don't like the swarm of small boats surrounding their patrons once the party boats have found the fish.

This survey seems to serve no real purpose but to expose some long-standing gripes between fishing groups. I'm concerned that by listing our unscientific theories about who is catching more and how many, we are dividing ourselves at a time when we need to be united against the forces who are trying to curtail our fishing.

[Capt. Debbie]

I don't think this post is divisive at all. Everyone I know, and likely most guys here do both private and for hire boats. So that's rediculous to make it a blame game. And frankly, blame who for what? We all have the same catch limits no matter what we are standing on while fishing- right?

It's actually very constructive if used to make catch results WAY more accurate. I guess the simple minded need their scapegoats to explain everything they don't like.

Given the smaller more manageable size of the for "hire fleet", the catch reporting can be extremely accurate on what is actually landed. And with a decent catch ratio of private v. "for hire" known, you can pretty accurately predict the catch #'s that NMFS has been struggling with for years across various coastal states. And then that gets to apportionment of what NJ or NY fishermen get.

The more regulated and known population of licensed captains and boats reporting can accurately predict what is being brought home for everyone including private boaters. Do you think the captain of a "for hire" know how many fish were caught? Dams straight he does when he decides to move or stay 5-10 stops in a day.


So this is not some finger pointing exercise. It's got real potential if set up properly to argue what we are actually landing.

The number of boats, and average # of fares can be tweaked. But I think this has accurate reporting potential based in reality- not voodoo theories?


I just hope we all don't start pointing fingers at one another this season. There will certainly be a divide between fishermen in a crowded spot when the bite is on. The mosquito fleet of private boaters which converge on the party boats which are fishing for a living must raise some ire. Private captains often have a disdain for the number of baits that a party boat can work over a much wider swath of bottom than the small boat fishermen can. The party boat captains certainly don't like the swarm of small boats surrounding their patrons once the party boats have found the fish.

This survey seems to serve no real purpose but to expose some long-standing gripes between fishing groups. I'm concerned that by listing our unscientific theories about who is catching more and how many, we are dividing ourselves at a time when we need to be united against the forces who are trying to curtail our fishing.

[fishguy]

Some of the numbers being floated here are just ridiculous. This is about as un-scientific as it gets.

[mako28]

Some of the numbers being floated here are just ridiculous. This is about as un-scientific as it gets.

Absolutely right, just tilt your cards and give them numbers to use against us. Then they can say "were using your data". :rolleyes:

[1captainron]

Changing the name of the boat to "Catching & Keeping Shit". 70-100 18 inch keepers on a good day? How many Good days do you actually think we have? .
10% of the customers catch 90% of the fish, especially with the better Jig fishermen on a daily basis.

[AndyS]

Can you add in the numbers by spear fishermen, surf fishermen and bridge bangers, poachers, back bay fish and rental boats too ?

[Flukemeister1]

One thing to keep in mind in our area is there are less private boats out there since Sandy.

[JBird]

Changing the name of the boat to "Catching & Keeping Shit". 70-100 18 inch keepers on a good day? How many Good days do you actually think we have? .
10% of the customers catch 90% of the fish, especially with the better Jig fishermen on a daily basis.

LOL I love the new name, Ron! These guys have no idea what goes on out there. 100 keepers a day :rolleyes:

[Solemate]

This is exactly why the system in place is flawed . There is no way to accurately determine how many fish are caught and kept. Real science would be to devise and approach that measures biomass with actual numbers if fish in the waters. The rest of this is BS

[Capt Sal]

LOL I love the new name, Ron! These guys have no idea what goes on out there. 100 keepers a day :rolleyes:

You mean to tell me that you don't limit the boat out every trip!~ lol::confused:

[hammer4reel]

Changing the name of the boat to "Catching & Keeping Shit". 70-100 18 inch keepers on a good day? How many Good days do you actually think we have? .
10% of the customers catch 90% of the fish, especially with the better Jig fishermen on a daily basis.


come on Ron , your saying when the fishing is good and your carrying 40 guys your not putting 70 keepers in the boat ??????

that less than 2 per guy.

I would think for the guys only catching 1 fluke on a trip on a head boat, the guys pulling 4 or 5 pick up the slack to put the average over 2 a guy .

ANd J Bird, if you think those numbers are out of touch maybe its you that has no idea whats really going on out there.

On a decent day the crew I fish with can EASILY catch 40 with just five guys fishing. Throwing back MANY keepers while searching for a money fish.
ANd I know alot of boats doing the same or Better

sure there will be tough days, wind against tide etc. but the more days you get to fish, the more often you get to fish the nice ones

.

[1captainron]

[QUOTE=hammer4reel;476001]come on Ron , your saying when the fishing is good and your carrying 40 guys your not putting 70 keepers in the boat ??????

that less than 2 per guy.

I would think for the guys only catching 1 fluke on a trip on a head boat, the guys pulling 4 or 5 pick up the slack to put the average over 2 a guy .

ANd J Bird, if you think those numbers are out of touch maybe its you that has no idea whats really going on out there.

On a decent day the crew I fish with can EASILY catch 40 with just five guys fishing. Throwing back MANY keepers while searching for a money fish.
ANd I know alot of boats doing the same or Better

sure there will be tough days, wind against tide etc. but the more days you get to fish, the more often you get to fish the nice ones

Not many guys catching 4 or 5, 18 inch keepers everyday Dan, just the way it is for us. Like I said 10% of the customers catch 90% of the fish (or the keepers). Hell, I'd be happy if everyone on the boat went home with 2 nice fish at the end of the day. Maybe you could send those 5 guys out with me once In a while so I can improve my numbers. :)

[hammer4reel]

Ron it sure seemed to me every time I fished up there with ANY of you guys. we always had pretty good fishing.
Sure 10% of the guys catch Better than the rest, but each boat has its steady ringers that at the very least show guys there are fish to be caught.
My Pop always told me the harder you fish the luckier you get

But I have also seen days when the kids dragging bait with the rod in a holder kicks everyone ass on the boat. while they sit there eating a sandwich lol

.

[fishguy]

On a decent day the crew I fish with can EASILY catch 40 with just five guys fishing. Throwing back MANY keepers while searching for a money fish.
ANd I know alot of boats doing the same or Better


EASILY get 40 keepers? GTFOH. Bullshit. Prove it.

[hammer4reel]

On a decent day the crew I fish with can EASILY catch 40 with just five guys fishing. Throwing back MANY keepers while searching for a money fish.
ANd I know alot of boats doing the same or Better


EASILY get 40 keepers? GTFOH. Bullshit. Prove it.
Dont need to prove anything, all pics are on my blog from every tourney.
as well as the catch from the day.

Pics from good days as well as the bad
http://reelmusicsportfishing.blogspot.com/






.

[MVP]

Just Asked what I thought wa a pretty basic question on % breakdown of fluke caught for hire boats and party boats vs private boats that Capt Monty had requested from our area. Thanks to those who tried to answer question
But like with most post guys just like to get off the subject and stir the pot

[Blackfish Doug]

Just Asked what I thought wa a pretty basic question on % breakdown of fluke caught for hire boats and party boats vs private boats that Capt Monty had requested from our area. Thanks to those who tried to answer question
But like with most post guys just like to get off the subject and stir the pot

Great post Alex & response this is probably one of the main reasons why I don't bother going Fluking anymore. I have grown to hate it make a post it goes to 5 pages. I know everyone of the fishing boats who posted here are hard nosed great captains & try to their best for their customers. It's like going on Facebook & posting something nice about Trump & getting blasted from the left side. Good luck to all you Flukers this year may you all get your limits of big fish but I will be flounder fishing instead. The only Fluke I will get this year will be by way catch fluke I officially hung up my gulps.

[hammer4reel]

Just Asked what I thought wa a pretty basic question on % breakdown of fluke caught for hire boats and party boats vs private boats that Capt Monty had requested from our area. Thanks to those who tried to answer question
But like with most post guys just like to get off the subject and stir the pot



Actually i think this post shows that their are 2 sides to every story.
Guys doing good on both for hire boats and private boats are surprised the fish counts arent higher across the board.

Guys not catching fish on both for hire and private boats cant believe others are doing so well .

So your answer for monty is 90% of the fish caught by both sectors is done by 10% of the guys fishing .
As that is the common ground.

And that any information we give believing what other boats are catching or not is probably unreliable information


..

[fishguy]

[QUOTE=hammer4reel;476016]Dont need to prove anything, all pics are on my blog from every tourney.
as well as the catch from the day.

Pics from good days as well as the bad
http://reelmusicsportfishing.blogspot.com/



The link you provided has zero pictures of even 1 guys limit. Try again, superhero. :rolleyes:

[hammer4reel]

[QUOTE=hammer4reel;476016]Dont need to prove anything, all pics are on my blog from every tourney.
as well as the catch from the day.

Pics from good days as well as the bad
http://reelmusicsportfishing.blogspot.com/



The link you provided has zero pictures of even 1 guys limit. Try again, superhero. :rolleyes:
Guess you don't know how to scroll down through posts.
Have a ten year old show you how

[Capt. Debbie]

You got that right.


Just Asked what I thought wa a pretty basic question on % breakdown of fluke caught for hire boats and party boats vs private boats that Capt Monty had requested from our area. Thanks to those who tried to answer question
But like with most post guys just like to get off the subject and stir the pot

[fishguy]

I'll get that same 10 year old to show you how to swing a "20 lb" bass over the tail without snapping your rod in two, hard on. #noproof
Looking back at every post you put up since early June I see 3 pics where maybe you have a boat limit. Maybe bc I don't know how many guys you had on board. So possibly limiting 3 times in as many months. Not superhero status.

[hammer4reel]

Fish guy the crew fished 6 tourney days last summer. Was only days we fished together .
We had over a boat limit each of those tourney days (ORL)
All pics are there except the FSOS tourney because one of the new guys was cleaning fish while we were at the tourney seeing where we placed .
If you look I fished some other days and had personal limits on those as well.
Never said anything about being a super hero.
Just when we are fishing tourneys together my crew pounds the fish .
Lots of fellow competitors doing the same thing.
Fish are here . Catches prove it

[fishguy]

Fish guy the crew fished 6 tourney days last summer. Was only days we fished together .
We had over a boat limit each of those tourney days (ORL)
All pics are there except the FSOS tourney because one of the new guys was cleaning fish while we were at the tourney seeing where we placed .
If you look I fished some other days and had personal limits on those as well.
Never said anything about being a super hero.
Just when we are fishing tourneys together my crew pounds the fish .
Lots of fellow competitors doing the same thing.
Fish are here . Catches prove it

You're God's gift. We get it. Buh-bye.

[Walleyed]

Completely off-topic, but I've started a gofundme to raise money to send fishguy to a Dale Carnegie course.

Please consider donating.

[dales529]

Alex I couldn't agree more with the topic "drift" I am however concerned that this survey is another example of unsubstantiated data. Can Capt Monty explain the NOAA "interest" and goal of this survey?

Thanks

[Capt Sal]

Good topic and a reality check. Party boats catch fish but smaller faster boats with less anglers on board is like comparing apples to oranges.If a PB were to take a large group of novice anglers to the "sticky stuff'' in the deep it would be a disaster. No different with bass fishing.Many trips we were limited out before the head boats left the slip.Private boats are out early also and there are some real good anglers on them.I don't think we are pegging one against the other at all. The fish belong to all of us it is just that some people have more to lose than others.Good topic Alex.

[Angler Paul]

I finally had a chance to research this on NOAA’s website. Below
is what the MRIP numbers show for the numbers of fluke
harvested by party/charter boats and private/rental boats for the
last ten years. I did not run a search for fluke harvested from
shore but that would bolster the total catch of the private sector
by even more. If you add up all these numbers, it will show that the
private sector harvested about 88% of the catch.


Number of fluke harvested by party and charter boats in New Jersey


2007 SUMMER FLOUNDER 195,448
2008 SUMMER FLOUNDER 68,163
2009 SUMMER FLOUNDER 97,872
2010 SUMMER FLOUNDER 85,225
2011 SUMMER FLOUNDER 72,694
2012 SUMMER FLOUNDER 85,496
2013 SUMMER FLOUNDER 82,659
2014 SUMMER FLOUNDER 280,556
2015 SUMMER FLOUNDER 85,169
2016 SUMMER FLOUNDER 60,837

Number of fluke harvested by private and rental boats in New Jersey

2007 SUMMER FLOUNDER 852,370
2008 SUMMER FLOUNDER 682,509
2009 SUMMER FLOUNDER 703,429
2010 SUMMER FLOUNDER 447,274
2011 SUMMER FLOUNDER 648,627
2012 SUMMER FLOUNDER 998,898
2013 SUMMER FLOUNDER 1,089,002
2014 SUMMER FLOUNDER 877,057
2015 SUMMER FLOUNDER 390,527
2016 SUMMER FLOUNDER 709,129

Paul Haertel
JCAA – Past President

[dales529]

I finally had a chance to research this on NOAA’s website. Below
is what the MRIP numbers show for the numbers of fluke
harvested by party/charter boats and private/rental boats for the
last ten years. I did not run a search for fluke harvested from
shore but that would bolster the total catch of the private sector
by even more. If you add up all these numbers, it will show that the
private sector harvested about 88% of the catch.


Number of fluke harvested by party and charter boats in New Jersey


2007 SUMMER FLOUNDER 195,448
2008 SUMMER FLOUNDER 68,163
2009 SUMMER FLOUNDER 97,872
2010 SUMMER FLOUNDER 85,225
2011 SUMMER FLOUNDER 72,694
2012 SUMMER FLOUNDER 85,496
2013 SUMMER FLOUNDER 82,659
2014 SUMMER FLOUNDER 280,556
2015 SUMMER FLOUNDER 85,169
2016 SUMMER FLOUNDER 60,837

Number of fluke harvested by private and rental boats in New Jersey

2007 SUMMER FLOUNDER 852,370
2008 SUMMER FLOUNDER 682,509
2009 SUMMER FLOUNDER 703,429
2010 SUMMER FLOUNDER 447,274
2011 SUMMER FLOUNDER 648,627
2012 SUMMER FLOUNDER 998,898
2013 SUMMER FLOUNDER 1,089,002
2014 SUMMER FLOUNDER 877,057
2015 SUMMER FLOUNDER 390,527
2016 SUMMER FLOUNDER 709,129

Paul Haertel
JCAA – Past President

Thanks Paul for sharing documented information and taking the time to find it.
I think this adequately shows that rental boats are the problem :rolleyes:

[Dclark2]

Are they out of their minds............................

[hammer4reel]

Are they out of their minds............................


my thoughts exactly. those numbers are as bad as the rest of their SCIENCE.

be nice if they actually did a survey of every registered angler and got actual numbers instead of this BS

[Capt Sal]

my thoughts exactly. those numbers are as bad as the rest of their SCIENCE.

be nice if they actually did a survey of every registered angler and got actual numbers instead of this BS
I think it was a guess at best! In all the years we chartered out of Sewaren Morgan and the Highlands we were surveyed "ONCE"!!!!! How do they come up with these numbers?Prime example of a flawed system.

[Billfish715]

Using a 120 day (or so) season, it looks like the party and charter boats caught about 2.5 keepers per day. That's with a fleet of 200 charters and PB's. The private and rentals took about 6,000 per day with a fleet of 1,000 boats or almost 6 keepers per boat per day. Those numbers indicate the numbers per boat. The numbers per angler are even slimmer.

The private boaters must be the villains. They catch more fish. The assumption would be to increase the harvest limits for party/charters and decrease the limits for private boaters. That's what my original fear was about how this survey would be used. It would pit private captains against for hire captains.

The numbers have to be based on mathematical formulas and guesstimates. If the harvest numbers are so poor for party and charter boats, I feel bad for them. I'm surprised any of them can stay in business. But, those numbers can't be as bad as is reported because there would not be a for hire industry. No one would show up to fish.

To make it fair, we should ban or limit all private boat harvesting of fluke until the party boat harvest numbers can equal or surpass them.

This is all ridiculous. It wasn't the chater/party/private fleets which all but decimated the whiting, ling, mackerel, pollack ans winter flounder and cod was it? Do the scientists think we are the ones who are going to wipe out the fluke?

[hartattack]

One number that can't be made up is the # of NJ anglers (according to the NJ Saltwater Recreational Registry Program):

In 2011, 251,025 individuals and 1013 for-hire vessels registered with the NJSRRP.

The more I learn the less I know :confused:

[Capt Sal]

Using a 120 day (or so) season, it looks like the party and charter boats caught about 2.5 keepers per day. That's with a fleet of 200 charters and PB's. The private and rentals took about 6,000 per day with a fleet of 1,000 boats or almost 6 keepers per boat per day. Those numbers indicate the numbers per boat. The numbers per angler are even slimmer.

The private boaters must be the villains. They catch more fish. The assumption would be to increase the harvest limits for party/charters and decrease the limits for private boaters. That's what my original fear was about how this survey would be used. It would pit private captains against for hire captains.

The numbers have to be based on mathematical formulas and guesstimates. If the harvest numbers are so poor for party and charter boats, I feel bad for them. I'm surprised any of them can stay in business. But, those numbers can't be as bad as is reported because there would not be a for hire industry. No one would show up to fish.

To make it fair, we should ban or limit all private boat harvesting of fluke until the party boat harvest numbers can equal or surpass them.

This is all ridiculous. It wasn't the chater/party/private fleets which all but decimated the whiting, ling, mackerel, pollack ans winter flounder and cod was it? Do the scientists think we are the ones who are going to wipe out the fluke?

It is posts like this that that i laugh at. You wonder why not many ''for hire capts"'.get involved. Get real man!

[Ryelof]

Using a 120 day (or so) season, it looks like the party and charter boats caught about 2.5 keepers per day. That's with a fleet of 200 charters and PB's. The private and rentals took about 6,000 per day with a fleet of 1,000 boats or almost 6 keepers per boat per day. Those numbers indicate the numbers per boat. The numbers per angler are even slimmer.

The private boaters must be the villains. They catch more fish. The assumption would be to increase the harvest limits for party/charters and decrease the limits for private boaters. That's what my original fear was about how this survey would be used. It would pit private captains against for hire captains.

The numbers have to be based on mathematical formulas and guesstimates. If the harvest numbers are so poor for party and charter boats, I feel bad for them. I'm surprised any of them can stay in business. But, those numbers can't be as bad as is reported because there would not be a for hire industry. No one would show up to fish.

To make it fair, we should ban or limit all private boat harvesting of fluke until the party boat harvest numbers can equal or surpass them.

This is all ridiculous. It wasn't the chater/party/private fleets which all but decimated the whiting, ling, mackerel, pollack ans winter flounder and cod was it? Do the scientists think we are the ones who are going to wipe out the fluke?

Where in he world did you get these numbers?

[dales529]

One number that can't be made up is the # of NJ anglers (according to the NJ Saltwater Recreational Registry Program):

In 2011, 251,025 individuals and 1013 for-hire vessels registered with the NJSRRP.

The more I learn the less I know :confused:

Simple math Larry. 1013 for hire vessels caught 6 fish per trip and 251,025 individuals also caught 6 fish each man per trip :rolleyes:
Hope most know I am being very sarcastic on all my posts here. These numbers are ridiculous and part of the problem not the solution.
Enough is Enough.

[Billfish715]

Where in he world did you get these numbers?

Take the 2016 numbers for party boats from the chart that was posted. Divide that by approximately 120 days of the season, that will give you the number of fish caught per day. Then divide that by 200 boats giving you the number of fish caught per boat per day. (That number of boats is even higher based on the information by Hartattack) That also means the number of fish per boat/per day is even less than what I posted. Do the same math for the private and rental boats. Again, with the registered number of boats, the number of harvested fluke per boat is less also.

I agree. The number don't add up. If they did, there would be no one fishing on the party boats or private boats because there were not enough fluke being caught. By figuring out the number of fish reportedly harvested by the number of boats and anglers registered, the math would suggest that the majority of people who fished for fluke in 2016 caught very, very few fish per trip.

[Capt Sal]

Simple math Larry. 1013 for hire vessels caught 6 fish per trip and 251,025 individuals also caught 6 fish each man per trip :rolleyes:
Hope most know I am being very sarcastic on all my posts here. These numbers are ridiculous and part of the problem not the solution.
Enough is Enough.

For sure.I wish we caught as many fluke as they say we did.