NOAA Budget To Be Slashed

[tombanjo]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2017/03/03/white-house-proposes-steep-budget-cut-to-leading-climate-science-agency/?utm_term=.339cf2cb27ef

For all you NOAA fans out there. This is the result of their repeated global warming evidence tampering done in order to satisfy Obama WH desires. Trickle down effects will help fishermen. Less money for them means less resources used to regulate.

[bhackemup]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2017/03/03/white-house-proposes-steep-budget-cut-to-leading-climate-science-agency/?utm_term=.339cf2cb27ef

For all you NOAA fans out there. This is the result of their repeated global warming evidence tampering done in order to satisfy Obama WH desires. Trickle down effects will help fishermen. Less money for them means less resources used to regulate.

...only 5% cut at the NMFS (should be about 98%)

[Blind Squirrel]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2017/03/03/white-house-proposes-steep-budget-cut-to-leading-climate-science-agency/?utm_term=.339cf2cb27ef

For all you NOAA fans out there. This is the result of their repeated global warming evidence tampering done in order to satisfy Obama WH desires. Trickle down effects will help fishermen. Less money for them means less resources used to regulate.
What "repeated global warming evidence tampering" would that be? :confused:

[tombanjo]

Revising and tampering with temperature station reports including giving more weight to some and disregarding others to suit their needs. I'm done with the warming crap. You think it's valid, I think it's a total scam. We're not going to change each other's minds. I was just stating the reasons why NOAA's footprint will be greatly reduced under this administration.

[tombanjo]

...only 5% cut at the NMFS (should be about 98%)

Heh. In the wonderful world of big government, no increase in an agency's annual budget is considered a drastic cut. An actual cut is unheard of.

[stevelikes2fish]

Heh. In the wonderful world of big government, no increase in an agency's annual budget is considered a drastic cut. An actual cut is unheard of.

Best news I've heard since Last Nov 8th.

NOAA Never On About Anything

NMFS Nonsensical Moronic Fishing Science

Hat's off to the new leader at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue

[dales529]

Obviously don't always agree with NOAA data but slightly concerned that the main budget cuts are to the satellite program. Would love to hear from the Tuna / Off shore guys if they feel this could impact the bouy weather data if these are not maintained?
Would suck to have less weather updates when we plan trips.

[fishguy]

The alt-right anti-science movement is going to f*** us all. Rolling back tailpipe emissions, allowing coal companies to dump into streams, how is this helping anything?

Climate change is real. Please provide any peer reviewed scientific evidence here that says otherwise.

[Blind Squirrel]

Revising and tampering with temperature station reports including giving more weight to some and disregarding others to suit their needs. I'm done with the warming crap. You think it's valid, I think it's a total scam. We're not going to change each other's minds. I was just stating the reasons why NOAA's footprint will be greatly reduced under this administration.
Oddly enough, NOAA's climate findings are in line with those of most if not all of the world's climate agencies, and despite the sponsored tinfoil hat nonsense from Lamar Smith and other pawns of Big Energy, the NOAA researchers are simply reporting the facts.
No Data Manipulation at NOAA-factcheck.org (http://www.factcheck.org/2017/02/no-data-manipulation-at-noaa/)
NOAA Scientists Falsely Accused of Manipulating Climate Change Data -snopes.com (http://www.snopes.com/2017/02/08/noaa-scientists-climate-change-data/)
NOAA's footprint will be greatly reduced under this administration because of the scientific illiteracy and willful ignorance of Donald J. Trump and his hand-picked sycophants.

[fishguy]

"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."

-Isaac Asimov, 1980

There is a healthy dose of this on NJFishing.

[Bluefish]

I still want to know who was responsible for making the ice age go away, was it an oil? coal ? or automotive company? Obviously the average temps have been rising for how many uncountable years and that all started long before carbon futures exchanges and solar panels were designed to enrich certain people. You cant stop nature, just not a difficult concept to grasp. yes we are responsible for some absurdly minute percent of the situation so lets stop enjoying the things we enjoy and mortgage our children's and beyond futures to accomplish nothing. There is a big difference between dealing in conceptual unproven and cant be proven theories and real issues that can be managed, corrected and improved.

[fishguy]

I still want to know who was responsible for making the ice age go away, was it an oil? coal ? or automotive company? Obviously the average temps have been rising for how many uncountable years and that all started long before carbon futures exchanges and solar panels were designed to enrich certain people. You cant stop nature, just not a difficult concept to grasp. yes we are responsible for some absurdly minute percent of the situation so lets stop enjoying the things we enjoy and mortgage our children's and beyond futures to accomplish nothing. There is a big difference between dealing in conceptual unproven and cant be proven theories and real issues that can be managed, corrected and improved.

This is just absurd. What other scientific theories do you dispute? Gravity? Evolution?

[fishguy]

Not for nothing the new Energy Secretary was a big time supporter of wind energy. Why? It's good for business AND the environment.

http://www.windpowerengineering.com/featured/business-news-projects/wind-ally-energy-secretary-nominee-rick-perry/

[Blind Squirrel]

I still want to know who was responsible for making the ice age go away, was it an oil? coal ? or automotive company? Obviously the average temps have been rising for how many uncountable years and that all started long before carbon futures exchanges and solar panels were designed to enrich certain people. You cant stop nature, just not a difficult concept to grasp. yes we are responsible for some absurdly minute percent of the situation so lets stop enjoying the things we enjoy and mortgage our children's and beyond futures to accomplish nothing. There is a big difference between dealing in conceptual unproven and cant be proven theories and real issues that can be managed, corrected and improved.
The shortest interglacials lasted 10,000 to 30,000 years, not a century or so.
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/GlobalWarming/page3.php

[Capt Joe]

"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."

-Isaac Asimov, 1980

There is a healthy dose of this on NJFishing.

Got that right and your talking points line up well also:)

[sonic]

Anthropogenic (human caused) climate change is real. I base my assertion upon the experience and knowledge that I acquired during my 40+ years working as a professional environmental engineer and scientist. During my career I worked on all sides off the fence, big companies, state and federal agencies, and as an independent consultant. My work included teaching numerous college environmental courses over the past 25 years, and that work required me to understand the body of scientific data regarding atmospheric phenomena. Just as importantly, regarding climate change, is my common sense understanding of natural systems dynamics obtained from every day observations during my 60 years recreating, as in fishing, and loving the natural world (like most of the folks posting?- hey this ain't rocket science). So my observation is that there is a clear cause and effect connection between the human use of Earth’s carbon based resources and climate change, which is resulting in a major alteration of the earth's climate. I liked the quote cited in an earlier post in this thread, “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” We are flirting with disastrous outcomes when scientific facts are concluded to be fake based on opinions asserted by uninformed individuals. I hope that we humans wake up to this dangerous trend…if you understand the geological history of the Earth, they you realize that species have come and gone during the history of Earth…don’t forget that fact. PS & Fyi – this is my first and last post on this thread. Thanks for keeping an open mind.

[fishguy]

Got that right and your talking points line up well also:)

Not sure what you mean, Cap. Sometimes your posts are vague or somewhat nonsensical. If you agree with the idea that people wrongly use their own notion of democracy to justify willful ignorance in the face of facts and truth then thank you for voicing your support.
If you are being sarcastic then I think you've proved my point. :)

[fishguy]

Anthropogenic (human caused) climate change is real. I base my assertion upon the experience and knowledge that I acquired during my 40+ years working as a professional environmental engineer and scientist. During my career I worked on all sides off the fence, big companies, state and federal agencies, and as an independent consultant. My work included teaching numerous college environmental courses over the past 25 years, and that work required me to understand the body of scientific data regarding atmospheric phenomena. Just as importantly, regarding climate change, is my common sense understanding of natural systems dynamics obtained from every day observations during my 60 years recreating, as in fishing, and loving the natural world (like most of the folks posting?- hey this ain't rocket science). So my observation is that there is a clear cause and effect connection between the human use of Earth’s carbon based resources and climate change, which is resulting in a major alteration of the earth's climate. I liked the quote cited in an earlier post in this thread, “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” I hope that we humans wake up to this dangerous trend…if you understand the geological history of the Earth, they you realize that species have come and gone during the history of Earth…don’t forget that fact. PS & Fyi – this is my first and last post on this thread. Thanks for keeping an open mind.

"We are flirting with disastrous outcomes when scientific facts are concluded to be fake based on opinions asserted by uninformed individuals."

Individuals here on NJFishing are uninformed or choose to be ignorant. The fossil fuel industry is very well informed about climate change. Shell oil knew in 1991 and did nothing. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/feb/28/shell-knew-oil-giants-1991-film-warned-climate-change-danger

Still waiting for anyone to post links to any peer reviewed science stating what so many here are claiming to be true, that climate change has little or nothing to do with mankind's activity...

[Pennsy Guy]

"We are flirting with disastrous outcomes when scientific facts are concluded to be fake based on opinions asserted by uninformed individuals."

Individuals here on NJFishing are uninformed or choose to be ignorant. The fossil fuel industry is very well informed about climate change. Shell oil knew in 1991 and did nothing. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/feb/28/shell-knew-oil-giants-1991-film-warned-climate-change-danger

Still waiting for anyone to post links to any peer reviewed science stating what so many here are claiming to be true, that climate change has little or nothing to do with mankind's activity...

Don't think that'll happen...Everyone should realize that since the start of the "industrial revolution" we've been spewing contaminates out of every smokestack into the atmosphere...not as much here now but look at the rest of the world-- ie: China & India, to name 2...Of course auto exhaust has increased if only due to more cars, more traffic, more slow downs, more idling in more traffic jams regardless of the emission advances. It's not all manmade pollution--wasn't it April 1815 when Calbuco blew it's top causing 1816 to be known as "The year with no summer"? Lots of eruptions since-they all help especially the majors with the ash cloud reaching the Stratosphere...but then that's a cooling effect...maybe we should force more massive eruptions...no, then there wouldn't be any fur-bearing animals left, they'd all be killed so the pelts could be made into coats...hummm...quite a conundrum:rolleyes:...

[blindalfred]

Everyone on this board engages in at least one form of outdoor recreation. Leaving aside the issue of climate change, how can anyone here think that more pollution (air or water) is a good thing. Would you rather have an EPA that erred on the side of caution (less pollution) or more? Politics aside, I want the cleanest air and water possible and am willing to pay for it, including the occasional misstep or over reach.

[fishguy]

Still waiting for anyone to post links to any peer reviewed science stating what so many here are claiming to be true, that climate change has little or nothing to do with mankind's activity...

***crickets***

[Capt Joe]

http://search.aol.com/aol/video?q=Richard+Lindzen&s_it=video-ans&sfVid=true&videoId=21F675903754CBE77BC721F675903754CBE77BC7&v_t=keyword_rollover

Can be played in slo-mo for the educationally challenged.

This is fun too but Carlin is even better
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C35pasCr6KI

Carlin? OMG! What the F... hey most of the believers get their shit from Bill Maher, Colbert, and the rest of the entertainment ilk. So a little Carlin is fun.

Need more "deniers", got shitpiles of em'.

[Blind Squirrel]

http://search.aol.com/aol/video?q=Richard+Lindzen&s_it=video-ans&sfVid=true&videoId=21F675903754CBE77BC721F675903754CBE77BC7&v_t=keyword_rollover

Can be played in slo-mo for the educationally challenged.

This is fun too but Carlin is even better
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C35pasCr6KI

Carlin? OMG! What the F... hey most of the believers get their shit from Bill Maher, Colbert, and the rest of the entertainment ilk. So a little Carlin is fun.

Need more "deniers", got shitpiles of em'.
I don't need to cherry-pick my sources:
http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/basics/
https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/indicators/
http://www.globalchange.gov/
http://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-blogs/climatechange/july-was-the-warmest-of-any-mo/51910210
http://www.nature.org/about-us/working-with-companies/companies-we-work-with/odwalla.xml?intc=nature.promo
http://wwf.panda.org/about_our_earth/aboutcc/
http://environment.nationalgeographic.com/environment/global-warming/big-thaw/
https://www.ama-assn.org/ssl3/ecomm/PolicyFinderForm.pl?site=www.ama-assn.org&uri=/resources/html/PolicyFinder/policyfiles/HnE/H-135.938.HTM
http://www.climatechange.gc.ca/default.asp?lang=En&n=E18C8F2D-1
http://www.global-climate-change.org.uk/
http://www.climatehotmap.org/
http://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/policy/publicpolicies/promote/globalclimatechange.html
http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming#.VdcX0ZcTEj0
https://www.edf.org/climate/human-activity-is-causing-global-warming
http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/8/20/california-drought-is-25-percent-more-severe-because-of-climate-change.html
http://www.scientificamerican.com/topic/global-warming-and-climate-change/
http://www.polarbearsinternational.org/about-polar-bears/climate-change
http://www.climatechangeinaustralia.gov.au/en/
https://www.climatechange.govt.nz/science/
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2013/07/13/national/science-health/effects-will-become-more-obvious-as-japans-climate-changes/#.VdcZzpcTEj0
Here's some comedy since you're so fond of it:
http://snowball.politifake.org/image/political/1503/climate-change-hoax-because-that-christian-hoax-god-says-so-politics-1425484767.jpg
[Inhofe is the GOP chairman of the United States Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works, so "comedy" is relative]

[tombanjo]

Please! Stop with the "science" bullshit. You know as well as I that ANY scientist that even glances sideways at this stuff much less puts out a dissenting paper is totally ostracized and drummed out of the community and will see zero grant money ever. Flat earthers indeed.

I've always been a follow the money guy. You could also include immense political power in this case too.

Billions of dollars of government money going to subsidize the green industry.

The return of many of those dollars to the politician's pockets through donations from the same companies.

Billions of tax payer dollars going to scientific grants and advertising programs to sustain the cause. Nothing like grant money (or the threat of no more) to guarantee a "scientific" outcome.

The creation of a huge voter base started by Clinton/Gore back in the 90's.

Call me cynical but I don't see huge sums of money and political power ever coinciding with a righteous cause.

[Blind Squirrel]

Please! Stop with the "science" bullshit. You know as well as I that ANY scientist that even glances sideways at this stuff much less puts out a dissenting paper is totally ostracized and drummed out of the community and will see zero grant money ever. Flat earthers indeed.

I've always been a follow the money guy. You could also include immense political power in this case too.

Billions of dollars of government money going to subsidize the green industry.

The return of many of those dollars to the politician's pockets through donations from the same companies.

Billions of tax payer dollars going to scientific grants and advertising programs to sustain the cause. Nothing like grant money (or the threat of no more) to guarantee a "scientific" outcome.

The creation of a huge voter base started by Clinton/Gore back in the 90's.

Call me cynical but I don't see huge sums of money and political power ever coinciding with a righteous cause.
Huge sums of money and political power frequently coincide with a far less-than-righteous cause:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/dark-money-funds-climate-change-denial-effort/
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/26/robert-mercer-breitbart-war-on-media-steve-bannon-donald-trump-nigel-farage
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/feb/15/leak-exposes-heartland-institute-climate
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/17/arts/design/natural-history-museum-trump-climate-change.html?_r=0

[fishguy]

Please! Stop with the "science" bullshit. You know as well as I that ANY scientist that even glances sideways at this stuff much less puts out a dissenting paper is totally ostracized and drummed out of the community and will see zero grant money ever. Flat earthers indeed.

I've always been a follow the money guy. You could also include immense political power in this case too.

Billions of dollars of government money going to subsidize the green industry.

The return of many of those dollars to the politician's pockets through donations from the same companies.

Billions of tax payer dollars going to scientific grants and advertising programs to sustain the cause. Nothing like grant money (or the threat of no more) to guarantee a "scientific" outcome.

The creation of a huge voter base started by Clinton/Gore back in the 90's.

Call me cynical but I don't see huge sums of money and political power ever coinciding with a righteous cause.

Whatever the government "gives away" for climate research pales in comparison to the subsidies and tax breaks for fossil fuel companies. Why does ExxonMobil need a subsidy or tax break anyway? They are most profitable company in the history of the world.
This tinfoil hat global scientific conspiracy stuff is just absurd.

[shresearchdude]

Who needs scientists to study things anyhow? We're humans and nature doesn't need us to study what's happening. We can see it for ourselves.

Really?

[bowhunter]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/leashes-come-off-wall-street-gun-sellers-polluters-and-more/ar-AAnORip?li=BBnb7Kz

Thank god for President Trump hopefully fishing regulations are next.

[Gerry Zagorski]

This is going sideways so moving it to non fishing...

[Blind Squirrel]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/leashes-come-off-wall-street-gun-sellers-polluters-and-more/ar-AAnORip?li=BBnb7Kz

Thank god for President Trump hopefully fishing regulations are next.
Lying on twitter that Trump Tower was wiretapped by President Obama during the campaign was next for Trump on Saturday morning , but it's nothing new for our tinfoil hat conspiracy nut-in-chief.
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/statements/byruling/false/
http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/02/politics-media-gaffes-lies
Hopefully impeachment and conviction are next...

[fishguy]

http://search.aol.com/aol/video?q=Richard+Lindzen&s_it=video-ans&sfVid=true&videoId=21F675903754CBE77BC721F675903754CBE77BC7&v_t=keyword_rollover

Can be played in slo-mo for the educationally challenged.

This is fun too but Carlin is even better
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C35pasCr6KI

Carlin? OMG! What the F... hey most of the believers get their shit from Bill Maher, Colbert, and the rest of the entertainment ilk. So a little Carlin is fun.

Need more "deniers", got shitpiles of em'.

Carlin is a hero of mine.

Your scientist in the video is the guy that makes it 99% of the worldwide scientific community instead of 100%.

[fishguy]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/leashes-come-off-wall-street-gun-sellers-polluters-and-more/ar-AAnORip?li=BBnb7Kz

Thank god for President Trump hopefully fishing regulations are next.

Yes, thank god indeed. What America needs right now less regulation of the guys that crashed the world economy 8 years ago.

America really needs more well armed mentally disabled people.

We just gotta have more pollution!!

USA! USA! USA!

[bulletbob]

Only 5%???.. I wish they slashed it by 50%.. Oh I forgot, we have some guys here that LIKE the fact that NOAA now has "officials" doing fish bag/size limit enforcement, along with the CG, State Marine Police, DEC, as well as county and municipal marine patrol units.. all we need now is some FBI , CIA, and friggin' Army, Navy, and Marine size/bag limit patrols as well, and things would be really great ... How can any salt water fisherman possibly support NOAA?...

[Finprof]

Please provide any peer reviewed scientific evidence here that says otherwise.

Here is one that is relevant:

Green, K.C., Armstrong, J.S. and Soon, W. (2009). Validity of Climate Change Forecasting for Public Policy Decision Making. International Journal of Forecasting. Vol. 25(4). p. 826-832.

The cited article is not about whether climate change is real but it does demonstrate that the climate change models are not very good at predicting anything. They don't do any better than a random number generator. Consequently, it cautions against using climate change model predictions for developing public policy.

By the way, the authors are not climate scientists, but have stellar reputations among statistical forecasters.