unacceptable tog fishing

[Chrisper4694]

I guess we picked the wrong boat to go on today. Is it just my imagination or do some of these boats not really put the effort in some days? I realize there are slow days but when you find out there was decent fishing a few miles out in deeper water and the boat you just paid $70 to go on decides to just move around in the same non-productive area ALL day you start to wonder. I know these guys know what they're doing so what's up? Saving gas? I'm tired of giving the benefit of the doubt...

I only pay to boat fish once in a blue moon, usually fishing on my buddy's boat, so some of the party boat regulars can chime in. Just my two cents.

Bravo to the boats that clearly put in the effort every time like capt ron's the fishermen and a few other's I've been on. Even on slow days I can tell capt. Ron and captains like him leave no doubt they tried everything they could. Can't say the same for some other's

[italianfisherman]

Agree.

[Uncle Nicky]

I've stated the same thing here before, and got a lot of flack for it, But yes, it happens a lot, especially on party boats. I'd rather get a charter together or get on an open boat deal, fish less often, but have more productive days.

[Take a kid fishing]

I have my own boat and only patronize two sponsor boats. It took a bit of time to find these boats with trial and error on which skippers put in the effort and know the grounds. You'll need to do the same and just stick with the boat that meets your expectations.

There are too many factors that go into catching these fish so just like finding a favorable restaurant, cross off those that don't perform.

[Islander II]

We scratched one off our list yesterday that came highly recommended. We did move around a lot but they couldn't find any bottom. Skated around the boat all day, casting in every direction, only to find sand. The little bottom on one spot on the boat produced 3 keepers in a 20 minute period. I think there were 5 keepers for 22 fares. Sad!

[Togman316]

Which marina did you sail from? ?

[june181901]

By not naming names (if you would be allowed to) you leave many of us to speculation.
At least send some PMs to those who want an answer.

[Foul Hook]

One thing that has to come into consideration is the size of the boat. The bigger party boats cant just anchor on any where and only get good bottom to a select few. As you stated these guys know their jobs and know the areas well. Moving around in the same area may prove productive in the bottom structure they are fishing. It may not seem like a big move to the customer but from a "good bottom" stand point it may be significant. The other day we were out and a boat less than 100 yards away from us watched us bail the fish while they caught nothing. I am certainly not making an excuse for a poor effort. I f you only fish one or two days a year a 6 pack boat may suit your expectations a little better as your bottom options are greatly expanded. My 2 cents. P.S. I fished a reputable sponsor boat yesterday and it sucked not for lack of effort but lack of fish cooperation.

[Joey Dah Fish]

Been there done that :( I just scratched off the list. I favor a few boats because like you say they work hard. I have a big and never shy anyway from tell the Captain that this spot sucks and I'm fishing in mud or sand. I can't say I have ever caught a black fish in the mud or sand. I have been wrong and Capt tells me we are fishing on top of a flat wooden barg. You know me I telli him this flat wooden barg sucks too. If no fish are being caught you move. All good Capts do. Don't be bashful people will only give you what you are willing to take. Last but not least some days the fish are there they just don't bite.

[O'Connor]

Interesting topic. I have a minute here so let me take a stab @ this... I do not think that any Captain would sandbag if they knew the bite was better a couple miles away. Remember, fishing is how they pay the bills and they are under constant pressure to produce everyday. They can not afford to have other boats/captains out performing them on a regular basis. I follow the reports back home causally, but there is a trend. Some days the ocean will light up and every boat posting will have limits of blackfish, fluke, bass etc. Other days a few will report good fishing. Here lies the difference. Like any profession some have greater skill sets then their colleagues or competition. Maybe your captain has been fishing a pattern that worked prior and he was waiting on a tide change so he could sit right etc. I have been on a boat where I am friendly with the captain and we sat on limp anchors for a couple hours with very few bites. We were discussing and he said when the tide stars moving and wind picks up as forecasted we will sit better on bottom around here and fishing will pick up. He said to move around was a waste of time...walking around deck you heard the monday morning Tom Brady syndrome after his loss to St.Louis...so and so is washed up....I hear the Miss O'Connor 2 is killing them @ the klondike why aren't we fishing there.... etc. etc. soon after lunch conditions changed and rods started bending. everyone forgot the slow morning and were walking around with their chests all puffed out. Where I live now the landing posts reports every single day by fish. This is seen online and also reported to California Fish and Game for record purposes. While there may be fudging to a small degree, In six years I have never been on a boat where I saw the landing report inaccurate. Boats with low counts are avoided and boats that consistently put up numbers are railed. Takes the trial and error out of it...here is report from yesterday.




Channel Islands Sportfishing Center Fish Counts
as of December 27, 2014
Boat Trip Type Anglers Fish Counts
Sea Jay Full Day 11 4 Whitefish, 6 Sheephead, 110 Rockfish
Mirage Overnight 24 240 Rockfish, 48 Lingcod, 6 Sheephead, 26 Whitefish
Seabiscuit Overnight 16 21 Whitefish, 1 Sheephead, 160 Rockfish, 1 Rock Sole, 22 Lingcod, 2 Bonito
Pacific Islander Overnight 24 3 Bonito, 1 Sheephead, 48 Lingcod, 240 Rockfish, 2 Whitefish, 1 Rock Sole
Gentleman 3/4 Day 22 2 Lingcod, 7 Bonito, 2 Sheephead, 140 Rockfish, 1 White Seabass
Coral Sea Overnight 17 170 Rockfish, 30 Lingcod
Cobra 1/2 Day Twilight 10 10 Red Rock Crab, 56 Rockfish, 1 California Spiny Lobster Released
Cobra Full Day 12 3 Sheephead, 1 Bonito, 1 Calico Bass, 75 Rockfish, 2 Lingcod
Aloha Spirit Full Day 17 2 Sheephead, 1 Lingcod, 2 Bonito, 1 Whitefish, 170 Rockfish
Speed Twin 1/2 Day AM 45 17 Sheephead, 2 Sand Bass, 289 Rockfish, 1 Rock Sole, 3 Lingcod
Erna B 3/4 Day 13 6 Sheephead, 3 Sand Bass, 130 Rockfish, 1 Halibut

[Chrisper4694]

I'm not just concerned with the fish count. I once went with a guy out of Chesapeake bay for stripers. We caught nothing. But to make a long story short I could tell he knew what he was doing and put in the extra effort and if I went back down there I'd call him first! You can just tell who puts in the extra effort I feel. If you want my opinion you can send me a pm I'll tell you what boat it was. I'm not going to say never go on this boat, maybe he felt lazy this day idk like I said I'm tired of giving the benefit of the doubt when I spend good money on something.

Boats 20 minutes out in deeper water did well and we putzed around the same general area 5 small fish for the whole boat and got to the dock 15 min early...trust me, they knew we were not happy when we left, no one was.

[bigfish1011]

Like many of you, I've been on one too many boat rides from highlands and manasquan- I remember one particular bluefish trip with literally 200 ppl- say in one spot all day- I sat from the top watching the chit show-

I won't say what I do w the coupons they offer for 'next time'
Never again- sponsors included

[frugalfisherman]

Togging is slow all over the party boat scene so don't be surprised. That is of course unless you are on one that has their favorites rods put in a certain area before they get there and then that spot is put over a small piece that produces at some point during the day. There's only one boat I know of that gets back early. Are we talking about AH.

[kurtisb]

Channel Islands Sportfishing Center Fish Counts
as of December 27, 2014
Boat Trip Type Anglers Fish Counts
Sea Jay Full Day 11 4 Whitefish, 6 Sheephead, 110 Rockfish
Mirage Overnight 24 240 Rockfish, 48 Lingcod, 6 Sheephead, 26 Whitefish
Seabiscuit Overnight 16 21 Whitefish, 1 Sheephead, 160 Rockfish, 1 Rock Sole, 22 Lingcod, 2 Bonito
Pacific Islander Overnight 24 3 Bonito, 1 Sheephead, 48 Lingcod, 240 Rockfish, 2 Whitefish, 1 Rock Sole
Gentleman 3/4 Day 22 2 Lingcod, 7 Bonito, 2 Sheephead, 140 Rockfish, 1 White Seabass
Coral Sea Overnight 17 170 Rockfish, 30 Lingcod
Cobra 1/2 Day Twilight 10 10 Red Rock Crab, 56 Rockfish, 1 California Spiny Lobster Released
Cobra Full Day 12 3 Sheephead, 1 Bonito, 1 Calico Bass, 75 Rockfish, 2 Lingcod
Aloha Spirit Full Day 17 2 Sheephead, 1 Lingcod, 2 Bonito, 1 Whitefish, 170 Rockfish
Speed Twin 1/2 Day AM 45 17 Sheephead, 2 Sand Bass, 289 Rockfish, 1 Rock Sole, 3 Lingcod
Erna B 3/4 Day 13 6 Sheephead, 3 Sand Bass, 130 Rockfish, 1 Halibut

I love the way things are reported in California, wish it was the same on the east coast.

[frugalfisherman]

I love the way things are reported in California, wish it was the same on the east coast.

Ever watch them tuna fishing out there. Looks like mackerel fishing here. Guys dragging them up one after another.

[torchee]

If I'm not catching tog I expect to be listing a few rigs!
Not fishing in the mud....

I think I wad on your trip

[Chrisper4694]

I lost just 2 weights all day...

[Fisherman120]

There's a lot of professional thiefs out there, sadly you live and learn. I've certainly learned first hand about a number of boats from respective ports. Unfortunately all we could do is never give them our business again.

[njfisherman1975]

I fished on party boats when I was younger, I am 39 now. Once I had a secure and steady job, I started fishing six pack charters more and more and I almost have not looked back. I still fish on certain party boats every year but it's mostly the same ones year after year. The way I see it...if u fish a sponsor party boat that has had the same captains and same mates year after year, you are fishing a boat with a great reputation...crew and customers.

[Fishin Polski]

I fished on a sponsor boat last sunday, out of shark river The sailing time was posted as 6;30 am and the captain showed up at 6;45 and we sailed at 6;55. 0n the first drop only one guy was catching fish, I couldn't even get a bite at the stern,captain never wiggled the boat for the benefit of the other people on board. After a couple of hours, out of desperation, I dug through the white legger bucket and found a green crab and put it on the hook. It hit the bottom and I got the best bite from a tog that I ever felt, 5 lber. in the box. I then asked the mate to take out the green crabs and he said we don't have any, i could not believe it, in hindsight i shoiuld have cut that crab into 6 pcs,my bad. After the long day when i went to pay, the capt. says 100.00,the website says 90.00, too bad i didn't have exact change. Once the captain got his money he stayed in the wheel house and made love to it, w/o a thank you or goodbye.oh yeah the engine stays running all day while we are fishing i guess it wont start again w/o the battery charger. The mate is one of the best that i ever fished with too bad i wont see him again, unless he moves to another boat. When i got home i couldn't believe the report, let me just say that it was stretched somewhat.

[Togman316]

You are 100% right about the money. .. He also tried to make me pay twice. I laughed and walled away. The mate is a very nice guy... what ashame

[kurtisb]

I've fished with him a few times for sea bass and fluke, never tog. I have done well, limit or close each time.

I now expect him to be late, so I am too. May go with him again for sea bass.

As others have said and I agree, the mate is top notch.

[Joey Dah Fish]

I've fished with him quite a few times. I have always done ok or well. Yes he's late sometimes I've come to expect it as well. I've never seen him be lazy when it comes to moving. He stays out later a lot and the mate is top notch. I will continue to fish with him as well. Plus sometimes I kinda like the tales part of the trip he certainly knows how to tell a story.

[kurtisb]

Plus sometimes I kinda like the tales part of the trip he certainly knows how to tell a story.

You're right Joey. He even sounds like a pirate when he tells a story.

[Capt. Debbie]

I would agree. Getting fish in the boat gets customers back.

They already have your money that day. But fish in your coller brings you back with more money and maybe paying friends.

I think the only way a captain would avoid a solid fish catch ( not just a rumor) is if he is bitter and trying to screw the boat's owner and has a new job lined up. You get the picture?

It's a small market and Reputations count A LOT!




Interesting topic. I have a minute here so let me take a stab @ this... I do not think that any Captain would sandbag if they knew the bite was better a couple miles away. Remember, fishing is how they pay the bills and they are under constant pressure to produce everyday. They can not afford to have other boats/captains out performing them on a regular basis. I follow the reports back home causally, but there is a trend. Some days the ocean will light up and every boat posting will have limits of blackfish, fluke, bass etc. Other days a few will report good fishing. Here lies the difference. Like any profession some have greater skill sets then their colleagues or competition. Maybe your captain has been fishing a pattern that worked prior and he was waiting on a tide change so he could sit right etc. I have been on a boat where I am friendly with the captain and we sat on limp anchors for a couple hours with very few bites. We were discussing and he said when the tide stars moving and wind picks up as forecasted we will sit better on bottom around here and fishing will pick up. He said to move around was a waste of time...walking around deck you heard the monday morning Tom Brady syndrome after his loss to St.Louis...so and so is washed up....I hear the Miss O'Connor 2 is killing them @ the klondike why aren't we fishing there.... etc. etc. soon after lunch conditions changed and rods started bending. everyone forgot the slow morning and were walking around with their chests all puffed out. Where I live now the landing posts reports every single day by fish. This is seen online and also reported to California Fish and Game for record purposes. While there may be fudging to a small degree, In six years I have never been on a boat where I saw the landing report inaccurate. Boats with low counts are avoided and boats that consistently put up numbers are railed. Takes the trial and error out of it...here is report from yesterday.




Channel Islands Sportfishing Center Fish Counts
as of December 27, 2014
Boat Trip Type Anglers Fish Counts
Sea Jay Full Day 11 4 Whitefish, 6 Sheephead, 110 Rockfish
Mirage Overnight 24 240 Rockfish, 48 Lingcod, 6 Sheephead, 26 Whitefish
Seabiscuit Overnight 16 21 Whitefish, 1 Sheephead, 160 Rockfish, 1 Rock Sole, 22 Lingcod, 2 Bonito
Pacific Islander Overnight 24 3 Bonito, 1 Sheephead, 48 Lingcod, 240 Rockfish, 2 Whitefish, 1 Rock Sole
Gentleman 3/4 Day 22 2 Lingcod, 7 Bonito, 2 Sheephead, 140 Rockfish, 1 White Seabass
Coral Sea Overnight 17 170 Rockfish, 30 Lingcod
Cobra 1/2 Day Twilight 10 10 Red Rock Crab, 56 Rockfish, 1 California Spiny Lobster Released
Cobra Full Day 12 3 Sheephead, 1 Bonito, 1 Calico Bass, 75 Rockfish, 2 Lingcod
Aloha Spirit Full Day 17 2 Sheephead, 1 Lingcod, 2 Bonito, 1 Whitefish, 170 Rockfish
Speed Twin 1/2 Day AM 45 17 Sheephead, 2 Sand Bass, 289 Rockfish, 1 Rock Sole, 3 Lingcod
Erna B 3/4 Day 13 6 Sheephead, 3 Sand Bass, 130 Rockfish, 1 Halibut

[MrAC1980]

You live and learn... I have a long blacklist of PB's and Charters you won't find me on again, some not fishing related actually. Come to next year's Xmas party and I'll be happy to share lists and stories with you over a beer! I too agree the East Coast should adopt the West Coast style of fish counts. But it's different on the West, the Marina's run the show hence why they can report the fish counts. But honestly I fish out of San Diego a couple times a year and I'd rather fish NJ anytime! Long slow boat rides is the name of the game there... Okay sorry to deviate, carry on...

[striper63]

I know how you feel, I have been on many boats over the years that have done that. I have been on party boats that had great blackfish action on one side of the boat and the other side was on sand all day and did not get anything, but they did not adjust the position to give everyone a shot at the fish. :mad:It is very annoying when that happens, you have to be at the right spot at the right time.

[shrimpman steve]

I have fished with this captain and mate. Have caught fish and have laughed and have a good time. I would not hesitate to fish with him again.

[Bluefish]

people praising the California PB's have selective memories, pay fare at the gate/tackle shop, get your spot#, fish , rotate, fish , rotate. sounds good in theory until you are the one either under the boat or on the wrong side each time, and talk about slow speed, makes our slower PB's look like speed demons and its a 2 to 3 hour ride, , and the 10 fish limit , meaning any species, catch 10 chub mackerel, or tiny hackleheads/sculpin and you are done for the day no matter how many yellowtails or other desirable species are there. did it years back and have no desire to do it again. and as for the multi day tuna trips, cant say its all bad but on average they are much smaller fish than we are used to (when its decent here) and the numbers aren't so great either and its no automatic catch . Im pretty sure those old films of catching albacore with the bamboo poles and just heaving them in are a thing of the past, cant say for sure but that's what I hear. as to "the Pirate" , he serves a niche market and does it well, that's why its a niche, not for everybody

[O'Connor]

people praising the California PB's have selective memories, pay fare at the gate/tackle shop, get your spot#, fish , rotate, fish , rotate. sounds good in theory until you are the one either under the boat or on the wrong side each time, and talk about slow speed, makes our slower PB's look like speed demons and its a 2 to 3 hour ride, , and the 10 fish limit , meaning any species, catch 10 chub mackerel, or tiny hackleheads/sculpin and you are done for the day no matter how many yellowtails or other desirable species are there. did it years back and have no desire to do it again. and as for the multi day tuna trips, cant say its all bad but on average they are much smaller fish than we are used to (when its decent here) and the numbers aren't so great either and its no automatic catch . Im pretty sure those old films of catching albacore with the bamboo poles and just heaving them in are a thing of the past, cant say for sure but that's what I hear. as to "the Pirate" , he serves a niche market and does it well, that's why its a niche, not for everybody



will keep it brief. been out here six years.


bottom fishing-very close, but edge goes to California due to shot @ Halibut & more variety.

Inshore game- NJ gets nod. Bluefish and striped bass much more dependable then white sea bass and yellowtail.


Offshore to 100 miles-first five years NJ much better due to size and variety. 2014 in Cal best I have seen. Great quality almost guaranteed limits of dolphin, yellowtail and nice sized yellowfin and bluefin. Shark fishing not even close California is much better. Winning makos in NJ tournaments are considered milk suckers out here.

Now that I have been out here for six years I would say an overall wash. I just miss striped bass fishing dearly. :(

[Ryelof]

I have fished with this captain and mate. Have caught fish and have laughed and have a good time. I would not hesitate to fish with him again.

ditto