Tog Rod

[Gerry Zagorski]

First of all lets not start a flaming rod war here. I know there are some very strong opinions so lets right now agree to disagree respectfully.

I'm no expert here and talked to a bunch of different people about this and would like to get other opinions... Seems there is no perfect rod and you might have to have 2 set ups depending on your style of fishing and how much weight you want or need to use.

Here is what I'm thinking....

- You want a rod that has good give in the tip but a good solid back bone. I say this for a few reasons... If the tip is too fast and you over react like me on hook sets you will pull the bait from the fish. You also want some give in the tip absorb the up and down of the seas since you want to keep your bait on the bottom and as motionless as possible. You want the rod to load up a bit slower for a good hookset but the backbone needs to be strong so once you have the fish on you can keep them out of the rocks. For this reason I'm thinking a glass rod might be best since most graphite rods don't have the give in the tip and they load up too fast, at least for me.

- Should be at least 7 feet long, maybe longer if you fish party boats. Longer rods allow you to keep your line away from the boat since you are usually fishing straight up and down. If on a party boat you need to compensate for the rails and much higher distance from the deck to the water, so that's why I say longer for party boats.

- As far as sensativity, here too I think glass rods get the nod. It's pretty much a foregone conclusion that braided lines work best here because you feel everything. Blackfish typically telegraph their hits and you will either feel it in the line or see them at the tip. The combination of Graphite and braid at least for me, has way too much sensativity and if you are not patient you'll be swinging at everything.

- Spiral or regular wrap? Don't have any opinions here since I have not fished a spiral rod but it seems to me that sprial may have some advantages. The one I see for stand up fishing is that the reel doesn't want to shift as much left to right when fighting a fish because the load is more balance and is absorbed more by the guides facing down. I'll give an example.... When fighting a heavier fish like a tuna stand up I find it difficult to keep the reel square, the torque always wants to shift the reel left or right. This might not be as much as an advantage with smaller fish like blackfish but still thinking their might be some advantage. Am I all wet here??

- Off the shelf or custom and some of that may depend on your budget. However, if you go sprial I guess you have no choice since I don't know of any off the shelf spirals.


- How much sinker weight should this rod be capable of?? I'm thinking 8 - 12 ounces, especially for the conditions we normally fish here in the winer/fall since you want your sinker to stay put. If however you have a nice calm day you might want to have another rod suited for lighter weights and this is why in the begining I'm thinking you might need 2 rods.

Once again, not trying to start a rod war here and it's likely the answer for some will be different than others based on their particular style of fishing. Just looking to get opinions so I can make a more informed choice based on how I fish and increase my odds for PUOSU... More on that later ;)

What say you tog sharpies and rod snobs out there??

Pass the popcorn please :D

[Dclark2]

Gerry I agree with your thoughts on the two rods depending on the weight needed to hold bottom.

I perfer a little bit stiffer tip ( graphite composite at least ) seems like the bite is felt better for me with that type and cork grips.

My heavy stick is the old G-Loomis Bacura heavy which will handle 10 oz and has a lot of backbone and light in weight. ( too bad it was discontinued ). I pair this rod with a Saltiga 20 using 50 lb braid which makes it one hell of an combo.

My lighter version if a 7 1/2 ft Phenix insure Hybird built by CR in Long island which is paired with a Diawa Lexa 400 with the power handle. This rod was just built so it has yet to be tested but it worked well on Sea Bass andwill handle up to 8 oz in a pinch but better paired fron 4 - 6.

Have a sprial wrap Cod rod for Jigging but perfer the traditional builds for bottom fishing.

[Kevin Bogan]

Good topic. Many of the things you bring up lend to a good debate.
I feel that the primary characteristic of a Blackfish rod is "taper".
You mention "if the tip is too fast". That says it all. A fast taper rod usually bends in the upper third/quarter. The problem here is that the tip is generally 'soft' and the butt portion very stiff. When you get a bite the fish already knows that you are setting up, and will drop the bait. It is a split second "signal' that just scares the fish away. If you hook the fish and he attempts to run back into the wreck you will "bump" more fish as the fast taper pulls more hooks that are lip hooked and will break more lines.
[many rod mfgrs. indicate on the bottom of the rod the rod taper; slow medium fast]
A medium taper rod bends more in the center of the rod. This action gives 'immediate pressure during the 'hookset', disallowing the fish from 'shaking' the hook, and allows the angler to continue a high striking motion that will help to get the fish off the wreck. You can actually 'crank' the reel against the action of the rod, and the medium taper will act as a shock absorber throughout the remainder of the fight. For every 10 fish that are lost, I believe medium taper will keep about half of those on the hook.
Materials, and rod lengths are other good topics.
Sensitivity???? it is an ability of the fisherman. Most anglers are led to believe in advertising that it is in a fishing line or rod material.

[RussA]

To piggy back off of Gerry's post..

You may want a fast tip if you are not paying attention to the motion of the boat so you can keep your sinker on the bottom motionless; you want your bait to move freely because they actually like it better most times, that's why I shake my rod tip and pop my line while not moving my sinker.

A fast tip rod also help with the hook set (with novice toggers), you see because the rod tip is so mushy (made of glass) that it is more forgiving in both the hook set and keeping your sinker on the bottom.

Glass and braid are great to fish together, because you get to feel the bites in your line and you have the cushion of the glass rod when you are fighting the fish, because you let the rod fight the fish for you.

Graphite and braid together is tough for most, as they aren't used to it, but when you do learn it is lights out. I prefer to use a medium/fast taper Rod like the Seeker Hercules inshore heavy and GTS80H.

I will use mono in waters 50 foot or less as you can feel the bites just fine and move to braid when fishing deeper water.

As for top shot for braid I use 30lb big game in green, and that is just fine. I see people using 50lb top shot and even 60lb top shot, that to me is way overkill. As long as you have your drag set right 30lb top shot should be more than enough. (Last January I landed 10 fish over 10lbs)

Sinker weight used are 10's and 12's (Flat or bank) 95% of the time as a heavier sinker is what I like

Hooks that I use are 2 ott, for smaller baits like Asians or Fiddlers, to 4 ott hooks for greens and big asians, and 5 ott to 6 ott hooks for Jonah/Rock crabs.

Also with the hooks I Snell them with 30lb-60lb fluoro leader because I happen to think it does make a difference and because I can get fluoro just as cheap as mono.

I can go on lol, but I will stop here. Good Luck toggin! :D

[Gerry Zagorski]

Saw this diagram and it helped me to visualize some of what's been said so I think I'm understanding it now....

Fast actually means a softer tip but faster to react once the hook is set since the rod loads faster, in other words it stops bending further up the rod and closer to the tip.

Slow the tip is actually firmer but the rod is slow to load since it bends closer to the butt.

Medium, is well....... Medium :rolleyes:

Do I have this right or am I confused :confused: :confused:

[260SEAVEE]

Being the old salt I am and a somewhat newby to toggin, I coverted modified grahite 2 blanks like muskie rods made by st crroix, loomis anmd lamiglass, I hated trhe trigger grip reel seats, even went to supersensitive salmon steelhead blanks/ rods all with shortcommings, than I modified my trigger musky rods by extening the boat 6 - 12".
Still wasn't satisfied!!!!
Went to my 9" + surf fiberglass custom rods from the 80's ( yeah no BS)
stripped 'em down cut them to handle a 10-12 oz sinker with still a little bounce in the tip. Fish them 7 1/2 the 7 3/4' long with composite grips and coek tape in between. Simple strong conventional lile a Newel 220 or Squider 140/200 and 50 to 60 braid = Dynamite Tog Stic for me especially in the deeper stuff - can put the boots to them if needed still enough cushion not to rip the hooks when they are digging in
The muskie triggers still work for me in the inshore rocky areas with mono up tom 40'
depending on the current and conditions and the bite 30 - 60 # leader ;-0

[Gerry Zagorski]

Funny I was just talking to Tropics about tog rods and he too mentioned cutting down a glass surf stick and loves it as well...

Anyone have any opinions on spirals???

Bulah..... Buhlahhhhhh ??

[hartattack]

Funny I was just talking to Tropics about tog rods and he too mentioned cutting down a glass surf stick and loves it as well...



I use a classic Harnell stick that was chopped and it's awesome. Only problem is not getting out enuff :o I'll be happy to let you use it Gerry, just set up the next PUOSU trip and it'll be there :)

[260SEAVEE]

BTW - These rods were moderate to medium action with the exception to a lami BT108 3M which was cut to 7/64 tip.
This blank is a beast ! plenty of power to snap a stuck rig off the bottom, yet sensitive enough for enough the faintest tog nibble :D

[Gerry Zagorski]

I use a classic Harnell stick that was chopped and it's awesome. Only problem is not getting out enuff :o I'll be happy to let you use it Gerry, just set up the next PUOSU trip and it'll be there :)

Working on the PUOSU with MVP as we speak Larry so stay tuned and hope to see you on both trips :D

[Gerry Zagorski]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys...

Based on what I've seen here I'm leaning towards glass or a glass composite and probably 7'6"

I have a St Croix PM 7'6 M/H fast action which will I may use as the deep/heavy rod so looking for something for the lighter rod...

[njboarder]

I'm building one using phenix M1 blank.(MXUR80H-B, 15-35lb, Mod-Fast)
pictured is the blank with a 10oz sinker and 3lb dumbell hanging on it.

[Gerry Zagorski]

I'm building one using phenix M1 blank.(MXUR80H-B, 15-35lb, Mod-Fast)
pictured is the blank with a 10oz sinker and 3lb dumbell hanging on it.

Wow :eek: :eek: That looks like a sweet blank and I've heard several good things about Phenix too.

Have or will you cut the blank down or use as is?

What material, carbon fiber?? If so it must be light...

[RedBank16]

My vote goes to the very hard to find and long ago discontinued Harnell 530.
It was an 8' moderate taper blank, and you could cut it down from either end to your liking.
When I was able to get Harnell blanks (OK, it was around 15 years ago, but I like to live in the past), I sold quite a few of them in AH Munical Harbor. The 530 was by far the most popular blank for blackfish.
Some guys bought 6 of these at a time, so there still may be some tucked away somewhere.

[Gerry Zagorski]

My vote goes to the very hard to find and long ago discontinued Harnell 530.
It was an 8' moderate taper blank, and you could cut it down from either end to your liking.
When I was able to get Harnell blanks (OK, it was around 15 years ago, but I like to live in the past), I sold quite a few of them in AH Munical Harbor. The 530 was by far the most popular blank for blackfish.
Some guys bought 6 of these at a time, so there still may be some tucked away somewhere.

Heard alot about the Harnell blanks too... Very desireable and are practically indestructable.

Seeker keeps on popping up as well

[fin_s_guy]

GatorGlass U696L Comes 8' and you trim to suit. $40.

Find a builder and ask for a basic wrap. Should set you back $150 total.

Then the tricky part...fish it with 3-5 feet of slack in your line. ;)

[Gerry Zagorski]

GatorGlass U696L Comes 8' and you trim to suit. $40.

Find a builder and ask for a basic wrap. Should set you back $150 total.

Then the tricky part...fish it with 3-5 feet of slack in your line. ;)

Thanks Booby - River Rat had a Gator Glass tog rod built by Kevin 10 years ago and he swears by it.. And this from a former PUOSU champ ;)

Speaking of PUOSU... I just googled "PUOSU Fishing" https://www.google.com/#q=PUOSU+FIshing and the legend lives on.

[tropics]

GatorGlass U696L Comes 8' and you trim to suit. $40.

Find a builder and ask for a basic wrap. Should set you back $150 total.

Then the tricky part...fish it with 3-5 feet of slack in your line. ;)

That sounds very much like a blank I used for a Cod Rod
Gerry as for spiral wrapped rods you either love them or hate them. My personal preference is spiral.

[Garone Custom Rods]

Personally I like glass or composites. For me moderate fast is the way to go. Like Kevin said before you pull less hooks and break off less big fish. As for spiral I am a big fan, but for me I hold the rod upside down waiting for the bite so for blackfish I prefer straight wraps. If you hold the rod right side up the spiral will do all of the things listed previously.

[Blackfish Bobby]

I took an old cue stick from Brazicki's Tavern in Jersey City. Put three guides on it and hose clamped a squidder to it. Best rod I ever used.

[Blackfish Bobby]

I took an old cue stick from Brazicki's Tavern in Jersey City. Put three guides on it and hose clamped a squidder to it. Best rod I ever used.

[Blackfish Bobby]

I took an old cue stick from Brazicki's Tavern in Jersey City. Put three guides on it and hose clamped a squidder to it. Best rod I ever used.

[MrAC1980]

Hey Bobby if its from Brazicki's its probably vintage and worth a pretty penny! Please clean the blood off the butt sections though before applying epoxy! :D

[JMM727]

Brazicki's Tavern in Jersey City! I've been there!!:eek:

[Blackfish Bobby]

Ah yes... My hometown...Jersey City....That's where I learned to catch Tog through the sewer holes.

[JerseyCoast]

T hat diagram is not 100% accurate. A true slow rod will bend fur there down the blank. That looks like it's been stretched or modified maybe.

I like slow rods for tog fir the same reasons that Kevin mentions. I also like a composite rod. I have watched too many graphite explode when snagged on a wreck. Using braid with a composite is plenty sensitive enough.

Spiral wrapped rods are excellent for bottom fishing. They have a better fit here than jigging like many use them for.

Many options out there. I like 7'6" myself. It gives me room to find more voids and holes. We have built all kinds but when a customer is asking me to suggest a rod...... composite with a slower taper. Fast tips miss fish for the average fisherman.

[Kevin Bogan]

T hat diagram is not 100% accurate. A true slow rod will bend fur there down the blank. That looks like it's been stretched or modified maybe.

I like slow rods for tog fir the same reasons that Kevin mentions. I also like a composite rod. I have watched too many graphite explode when snagged on a wreck. Using braid with a composite is plenty sensitive enough.

Spiral wrapped rods are excellent for bottom fishing. They have a better fit here than jigging like many use them for.

Many options out there. I like 7'6" myself. It gives me room to find more voids and holes. We have built all kinds but when a customer is asking me to suggest a rod...... composite with a slower taper. Fast tips miss fish for the average fisherman.

Tom, cant agree more "Fast tips miss fish" They already know you are there as soon as you lift up on a fast taper rod.

[Captain Rich]

Bah... Why do you guys waste your time on tog when there are stripers to be caught ????

[Captain Rich]

:D I just like throwing gasoline on fires ! :D

[JerseyCoast]

Tom, cant agree more "Fast tips miss fish" They already know you are there as soon as you lift up on a fast taper rod.

Absolutely Kevin.... As I have said in the past....I am still using a Fish Poison Rod on many trips. I send several guys down/up to you for them. One of the better Tog Rods that I have used. I carry 2 rods on every trip and one is from Kevin Bogan. How's that for advertising.......for my " competition"?????? Ha ha.... ( I have admitted to my Fish Poison Rod many times in public too ). I find many guys on the boat get a real laugh out of it...... but the truth is the truth..... :D

[bakayd]

Seeker for me, its glass, soft tip, lots of backbone, & you can enjoy the catch instead of some of these graphite tree trunks you see out there:

on the lighter side i go with my Seeker BA 80-7′C (fishes up to 8oz) and its great for striper/flukin as well

if i use > 8oz i use my BA 30-7′ (great for live lining, or fishing bucktails more than 8oz)

i have Calcutta CT700B on both rods with 50lb braid. I'm sure there are better combo's out there but I have nothing but compliments for both.

[shrimpman steve]

You can have my 50 year old hollow Austrailian glass rod when I die:D

[JerseyCoast]

You can have my 50 year old hollow Austrailian glass rod when I die:D


The original Parabolic Jigging Rods...... :D I still love the old S-Glass rods from way back! Super lightweight, durable and great action! Shame they really dont make them any more!