Dam Removal

[calbo]

OK - for some reason I've tried to post this three times and keep getting blocked before I can post - one more try.

I commented about the dam removal on the Raritan a while ago. I've fished the Raritan for over 50 years - grew up in the town of Raritan and fished the Nevius street area - and 5 miles up-down stream while growing up. During the 50's and 60's we caught tons of fish - large and smallmouth bass, black and white crappie, white and yellow perch, channel, bullhead, and white catfish, eels, carp, pickeral, carp, trout - during stocking periods, and many other species. And, we ate them. Nobody told us the river was polluted back then - and we needed the extra food. I've been fishing the same area for the last 20 years - after laying off for several years.

I caught most of the same fish - plus - about 10 years ago, began catching stripers and shad early in the season. And, over the winter I was catching large rainbow, brook, and brown trout - probably the result of fall stockings.

Over the last 3 years - since the dam removal began - fishing has been mediocre - at best. Winter fishing has been totally unproductive - and the rest of the year basically sucks - a few small rockbass and smallmouths.

I attribute the decline in the fishery to ther dam removals - and a new population of foreigners that keep everything they catch - and there a tons of them fishing this area now.

My brother-in-law bought property on the Musky 17 years ago - built a home - and had access to ~ 1 acre of Musky shoreline. Three years ago TU came in and decided to remove the dams above and below his property - and a 100+ year old burm on his land. This, according to them, was going to allow andromonous species to more easily move from the Delaware up the Musky.

I used to fish his property often - caught trout, bass, walleyes, stripers, pike, and other species year-round. I taught my grand-children to fish on this property - they had a ball - catching sunfish, bass, walleyes.

After the TU crew decimated the lower Musky - the river on his property and several miles upstream and downstream is dead water. They removed all of the holding areas, deep pools, and debris that used to hold fish. He lost ~ 30feet of his shoreline - and his upstream neighbor lost over 60 feet of shoreline during high-water periods after storms. They destroyed what was a prestine, productive fishing run.

The most dangerous software ever developed was Microsoft's Power-Point - it gives the impression that the person presenting a proposal put some thought and analysis into his plan. The TU dudes apparently convinced the local politicians they had a sound plan - not. The river will never be the same. They've destroyed one of the most productive fisheries on the Musky. Lawsuits are underway - but it's too late.

I'm concerned the Raritan is going in the same direction - the andromonous species returned to the river after pollution clean-up efforts were implemented. Removing the remaining dams will not improve the fishery - it will simply remove natural holding areas that will no longer hold fish.

Just an old farts comments. Sad to think the current and next generation will not enjoy the river the way we did.

[acabtp]

:confused:
before people came the fish didn't need the dams or the "holding areas" created by dams, and they don't need them now. i hope they remove every dam.

bummer your brother's honey hole got moved, but the river is better for everyone now

[bronzeback]

not true dude!! the river is way worse for me and a bunch of my friends bec the dams will be removed.. giant raritan smallies thrive in the dams.. especially july and august when they congregate to the oxygen filled waters created by the dam.. not to mention the deep holes created by the dam...

and if you are a trout guy.. dont listen to anyone but me on this one.. many many trout HOLD OVER bec the oxygen keeps them alive from the dams.

If i had nothing better to do and if i was an activist... i would do everything in my power to keep the dams up.

if the ppl involved were not so stupid.. they would just remove a portion of the dams so everyone is happy.. esp the ppl who actually think that bec the dams will be removed.. there will be 20 pound stripers up in duke island park. even if this did happen once every few years bec of abnormal flooding.. who cares!!

bottom line is.. the native fish in the raritan thrive bec of the dams.. if they did not thrive then there would not be so many trophys in the water!

BTW.. they also are the coolest looking things youll see on the river!!

anyone can spin my post anyway they want buy my point is that the raritan river is not better off bec of the dams being removed.. Its not better its worse!

[Lard Almighty]

I have mixed feelings about the dams coming down myself. I grew up fishing the Raritan, and for the last 20+ years the most productive spots on the river have usually been the dams. They oxygenate the water and create deep holes both above and below, and they tend to concentrate the fish during the hot summer months.

However, they create barriers to fish movement, both predatory and prey species. Also (and this is very evident at the Roberts Street dam) the river above the dams can get choked with silt due to the river not being able to flush itself out. While the dams themselves can create good fish habitat, I feel that their presence as a whole is doing more harm than good.

Once these dams come out, the landscape of the river will change; only time will tell what it ultimately looks like. Fish will adapt to the changes and find new holding areas, which anglers will discover in time. The river can behave like a complete system, as opposed to being isolated to sections created by the dams. I for one am very excited by all these changes. Once the dams come down, the Raritan will be like a whole new river that young and old alike can discover, just like many of us did when we were kids.

[bigfishy]

Very much agree with Lard...

Dams do oxygenate the water , for small stretches...
They do create holding water, but the fish hold there
because they can't go further up or down...

Without the dams, fish could use the river as a whole ecosystem...
Not that it would happen with the put and take fisherie that jersey
has but if both dams were removed trout would have the chance to move
up and find springs, holes, and key feeders..Thus having a better chance
for survival....Everything in time would get bigger and helthier with the
removal of these silted over areas...

Everyone NEEDS to be patient and let nature fix herself:D

[bronzeback]

i very much agree with the original poster although lard and big fish make nice points

i do say this with the all due respect, big fish, i think u said fish dont hav anywhere to go... so thats why there hang at the falls.. well u are definately wrong with that one and u also are right... so ur right and wrong.. lol

muskie, northerns and smallies just to mention a few.. these fish have plenty of places to go.. in fact.. they can go miles down stream to the next set of falls or up stream to the next set.. esox and smallies, ect they go to the falls for one reason only... bec thats the place to be. the oxygen and the deep cool holes from the falls...there are many nice smallies t hat never go near the falls.. they dont want to go to the falls.. same for some northerns and muskie.

im sure u were not referring to these fish.. u prob were tlkn about shad stripers carp herring ect just to name a few. oh i just read ur post again.. u were tlkn about trout too.. perhaps ur right bro.. one can argue that removing the falls, makes for better fishing...

but just hear me out.. removing the falls makes it worse, for many fish and many fisherman.. so we can argue both ways and we are both right.. lard said it best.. he is torn..

[maddhatterr]

Tear them all down....Free the rivers.....BOO HOO!:eek: .....doing this is not about us(the fisherman) its about the river and nature and the ecosystem....it took years for the river to adpt to the change of the dams being installed and it will take time for the rivers to readjust as they are removed....be patient! You not catching as many fish is small potatoes compared to the bigger picture!

[bronzeback]

hey hat, w hats up? howd u do with the stripers this may? u doing good, dude?

im gonna say this bluntly bec ur my friend.. u dont kno what ur tlkn about.. shut it.. zip it..

be patient.. ????????

did u read what the poster said? ohh u did? are u sure? hahaa

he said it ruined the fisherie!! he said its nothing but open water..

if thats what u ppl want.. then be careful what ya wish for!!

im licking my lips for ur response my ole pal

[bigfishy]

Tear them all down....Free the rivers.....BOO HOO!:eek: .....doing this is not about us(the fisherman) its about the river and nature and the ecosystem....it took years for the river to adpt to the change of the dams being installed and it will take time for the rivers to readjust as they are removed....be patient! You not catching as many fish is small potatoes compared to the bigger picture!

I second and third that...

Everyone has an opinoin and there own reasons for that opinoin...
We are all right in our own way:confused:

Siltation = destruction of insect life...A free flowing stream is helthier in every
aspect...
Not trying to scuew anyones opinoin or tell them that they are wrong...
Do lots and lots of research , when it comes to dam removal , fish migration and insect population...When researching, look all over this country and the world for similar situations and their future outcomes...If you are a fisherman, and are interested in the far reaching future of any rivers health, it will all make sense...Imediate positive changes are almost impossible with any senario...Patience is the key to unlock this door:eek:

[bigfishy]

I for one am very excited by all these changes. Once the dams come down, the Raritan will be like a whole new river that young and old alike can discover, just like many of us did when we were kids.
__________________
This is what excites me the most:D :D

[maddhatterr]

stir baby stir!

Bronze....stripers this spring...slow to say the least!

And as far as I'm concerned the dams ruined to the river not the other way around. Yes it made for very concient fishing but come on.........now is when you seperate the strong fisherman fromn the weak........anyone can show up at roberts or even dukes falls and with some basic knowledge slam the smallies or what have you........I fish the south branch by my house and have caught my share of lunker smallies with no dam in sight...........I guess some of us will have to learn to read the water a little better in order to keep up there numbers......now that is fishing my friend! You gonna be out at the cat fishing night?

[maddhatterr]

And if we tear down all the dams includeing SBB I could have stripers at my door steps and shad too! Everything that is supposed to live in the rivers will do just fine and big holes will develop in time and then you all will have your honey holes again........:D



Man is the worst thing that ever happened to mother nature and its balance................

[Lard Almighty]

Man is the worst thing that ever happened to mother nature and its balance................

No argument from this environmental consultant...

http://www.ohiohistorycentral.org/images/11-3-52.jpg http://blog.cleveland.com/science_impact/2009/06/large_Richard-Ellers-Cuyahoga-River-goop.jpg

[AndyS]

I think it is mostly about restoring river herring and shad. if you get a natural forage base going again, all the pieces will fall back into place. The Delaware river has not one dam on it, fishing is good there.

[FASTEDDIE29]

The migration of certain species is AWESOME. My two cents is this once the dams are down, a few big rains come, a few hurricanes arrive. That river will get flattened out like a pancake. DONE!!!

[maddhatterr]

The migration of certain species is AWESOME. My two cents is this once the dams are down, a few big rains come, a few hurricanes arrive. That river will get flattened out like a pancake. DONE!!!
Then why do rivers like the big D have big holes as well as it share of flats.........no dams there unless you count the wing dams? and the fishing is good ther as well.

[FASTEDDIE29]

Yes there are a lot of holes on the Big D, Ive floated the entire river as an eagle scout. Floated from Poxono island to the gap 2 weeks ago, thats about 7 miles, 5 miles of that stretch was flat. Rivers change every year thats why I love fish in em. We'll just have to wait and see what happens to the RR.

[AndyS]

I wouldn't worry about it too much, there are 1700 dams in New Jersey alone, so far they have been able to take down 7.

When river herring go on the Endangered Species List, the dams may come down a little faster.

Just run off a list of the fish that run up and down the rivers and give it all little more thought, thanx.

[calbo]

Interesting opinions.
I've floated the Raritan from the confluence of the North and South Branches to Manville many times over the last 40 years. Anyone that has done this would have to admit - except for occasional - very occasional - areas it's mostly dead water. The only really productive areas are the dams and spillways.

The difference between rivers like the Delaware and the Raritan is the watershed that supports the river. The Delaware is less impacted by heavy rains and storms - it's more impacted by the release of water from the NY reservoirs that feed it. The Raritan has had it's watershed destroyed by up and on-stream over-construction. A 1" rainfall raises and muddy's the water for a over week - 50 years ago it cleared in a couple of days. The removal of the obstructions could result in a muddy, silted bottom - eventually destroying insect life and impacting the entire food-chain. Migratory fish need something to eat on their migration.

I wonder if the proposed dam removal included any evaluation of the state of the watershed and the impact of flooding.

I grew up in Raritan - and watched the river flood after storms for many years - two years ago the river actually flooded the main street of the town - for the first time ever. I understand they now plan to remove only part of the Nevius Stree spillway - that may save a portion of the river.

[bronzeback]

im not tlkn to anyone in specific here. if u think its better fishing bec the dams will be gone.. u are wrong in many ways period. many many ways

will it be better in a very small few ways?? better? no.... different? yes!! yes definately different fishing.. most definately different.. but no way better.. not even close.

ANYONE WHO THINKS FISHING.. THE WAY IT IS RIGHT NOW.. WILL BE BETTER AFTER THE DAMS ARE GONE... HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEY ARE TLKN ABOUT.

the only comparison that i can give to you about the dams and fishing is that the dams are as important to sport fishing as coral reefs are to the ocean..

not sure who says.. do ur research do ur research.. be patient.. let if fix itself?
now no disrespect and i do respect ur opinion... but what the hell are you tlkn about.. fix it self? theres absolutely nothinbg wrong with it. robert street falls is the best smallmouth fishing in the state on nj ... better then anywhere.. the valley merril creek, ect.. better then anywhere...

i think u ppl are confused what with the original poster said... the removal will ruin the fishing.. hes not concerned with the water quality.. hahhaa who cares... just tlkn about fishing.. the man who started this.. he knos about the raritan.. he knows. he knows.. like i kno..

and pls stop comparing the little dink raritan to the delaware.. bec its too funny

and finally... what if i told you that many many yrs ago... after t he dams were put up.. and bec of it.. the fishing turned into 500% better.. w hat if i told u that.. what if it was true.. would u still want the dams removed?

ok im outta beer and out of beer muscles. take care everyone.. yes the dams are coming down.. and it sucks for me and many ppl i kno.. blows big time

ps hatter.. nice chattin with ya

[acabtp]

im not tlkn to anyone in specific here. if u think its better fishing bec the dams will be gone.. u are wrong in many ways period. many many ways

will it be better in a very small few ways?? better? no.... different? yes!! yes definately different fishing.. most definately different.. but no way better.. not even close.

ANYONE WHO THINKS FISHING.. THE WAY IT IS RIGHT NOW.. WILL BE BETTER AFTER THE DAMS ARE GONE... HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEY ARE TLKN ABOUT.

the only comparison that i can give to you about the dams and fishing is that the dams are as important to sport fishing as coral reefs are to the ocean..

not sure who says.. do ur research do ur research.. be patient.. let if fix itself?
now no disrespect and i do respect ur opinion... but what the hell are you tlkn about.. fix it self? theres absolutely nothinbg wrong with it. robert street falls is the best smallmouth fishing in the state on nj ... better then anywhere.. the valley merril creek, ect.. better then anywhere...

i think u ppl are confused what with the original poster said... the removal will ruin the fishing.. hes not concerned with the water quality.. hahhaa who cares... just tlkn about fishing.. the man who started this.. he knos about the raritan.. he knows. he knows.. like i kno..

and pls stop comparing the little dink raritan to the delaware.. bec its too funny

and finally... what if i told you that many many yrs ago... after t he dams were put up.. and bec of it.. the fishing turned into 500% better.. w hat if i told u that.. what if it was true.. would u still want the dams removed?

ok im outta beer and out of beer muscles. take care everyone.. yes the dams are coming down.. and it sucks for me and many ppl i kno.. blows big time

ps hatter.. nice chattin with ya
Guy, you just are not getting it. This is not about what is best for the fisherman, this is about what is best for the river.

[bronzeback]

hey can u teach me how to catch some of them perch like in your avatar..

what in Gods name do u kno whats best for the river.. udont kno nothin about nothin esp the raritan

[FASTEDDIE29]

OH WOW, looks like NJF has GONE WILD!!!:D

[bigfishy]

Unfortunately recent posters are more interested in imediate satisfaction and not long term benefits:(