A fish story,.....but I believed it.

[Mark B.]

An angler called today. Said he was @ Brice Park on the Manasquan River, yesterday, & seeing the outline of a 3' long fish slash through the water, tossed his rubber fish jig on 8 lb. test line to it. The fish slammed it & took off. In a period of time, he hooked a total of 6 (!) similar fish, but only managed to get one of them close to shore, before it, too, got off. He said that it was very silvery, and felt that by what he had glimpsed of it & the way if fought, that it wasn't a striper (been fishing for a while & has caught those).

He didn't seem like a bullshitter to me.

[Lard Almighty]

Very interesting...

Just so you know, I once caught a bluefish (small) in the Manasquan a couple hundred yards downstream from the bridge at Bryce Park. If the salt line was far enough up the river, that may offer an explanation as to what those fish were. I'd be particularly interested in knowing how the angler missed the fish; if they bit through the line, then bluefish are probably the culprit.

If they weren't bluefish... well, then we all know what they most likely were. ;)

[Mark B.]

Very interesting...

Just so you know, I once caught a bluefish (small) in the Manasquan a couple hundred yards downstream from the bridge at Bryce Park. If the salt line was far enough up the river, that may offer an explanation as to what those fish were. I'd be particularly interested in knowing how the angler missed the fish; if they bit through the line, then bluefish are probably the culprit.

If they weren't bluefish... well, then we all know what they most likely were. ;)


He didn't get bit off,......the fish just got off.

[Skunk City]

Soo...

...white perch?


Sturgeon?

[AndyS]

We are hoping sea-run brown trout.

[HerringKing]

There are big white suckers in there and with those lips it could easily get off

[AndyS]

On Marks’ behalf I thank him for passing on the information. Remember, he doesn’t have to come on here and give us a heads up.

But, if you oppose to seeing 15,000 brown trout stocked in the Manasquan river annually, take it up by writing letters to NJ FG&W or attend meetings hosted by F&G.

[danyeo]

Hopefully it's not Snakeheads. It's probably only a matter of time before we start seeing them here.

[Tony Cav]

Maybe..........bull sharks.....yea...that's the story...bull sharks....yea that's the ticket!!!

The lowed river is full of cocktail blues and some shad as well....all in the 1 to 3 pound category....

[Tony Cav]

On Marks’ behalf I thank him for passing on the information. Remember, he doesn’t have to come on here and give us a heads up.

But, if you oppose to seeing 15,000 brown trout stocked in the Manasquan river annually, take it up by writing letters to NJ FG&W or attend meetings hosted by F&G.

From what I have heard there is almost no return of these fish.....the program has been going for years........fishery has never been established. 15,000 is just not enough to establish a viable fishery.

[surfrod]

even if the salt line were up that high, I'd believe weakies before blues that far up river. if they were blues that size, no way would that rubber jig come back in tact

but, good fish story nonetheless :D

[Lard Almighty]

All right, let's look at our facts.

http://blog.tradepressservices.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Jackwebbbbigseptemberman.jpg


The angler hooked six fish, all of which spit the hook, and only one of which he got a decent look at.
The angler was fishing with artificial lures on 8 lb. test.
The angler was fishing in an area of the river that is at the very top of the tidal portion.
The angler saw what he claimed to be a 3-foot silvery fish dart through the water.
Immediately after he saw the fish, he hooked what felt like a large fish.
The fish he saw clearly was silvery in color and was not a striper.


We assume that the angler was not fishing with a steel leader. Also, Mark B. trusts the man's story, so we can also assume that he is at least a moderately experienced angler and is not prone to exaggeration. Additionally, as it is very difficult to estimate the size of a fast-moving fish in the water, we can also assume that the angler may have overestimated the size of the fish by several inches.

Now, let's take a look at our suspects.

http://www.shadowlocked.com/images/stories/LISTS/003_Dec_2010/most_undeserved_oscars/The_Usual_Suspects.jpg

Bluefish
As the river at that location is tidal, it is conceivable that bluefish could make it up that far. Bluefish approaching 3 feet are also no uncommon. However, as the angler did not report getting bit off using 8 lb. test after hooking six of these, it is unlikely that all of them were bluefish, as at least one or two would have easily bitten through the line.

White Sucker
There is a large population of suckers in the river, and suckers have been known to strike artificial lures on occasion. However, suckers do not reach even close to 3 feet in length, and their coloration is more brown or bronze than silvery. Also, unless they were unknowingly snagged, it is highly unlikely that six in the same area would be hooked on an artificial lure.

Snakehead
Snakeheads are highly aggressive and will attack artificial lures. Also, snakeheads approaching 3 feet have been caught in US waters before. However, up to now there have been no documented catches of snakeheads in the Manasquan River drainage. Also, the coloration of these fish is dark green to dark brown, not silvery.

Shad
As they are anadromous, shad could survive in the freshwater portions of the Manasquan, and they will hit artificial lures. However, there is no documentation of significant runs of larger shad up the Manasquan. Even if there was a few in the river, shad don't typically get larger than about 2 feet long. However, the fact that all these fish were missed is indicative of the relatively low hookup to landing ratio inherent in shad fishing.

Weakfish
It is possible that a number of larger weakfish may have entered the river. However their coloration is distinctly more pinkish than silvery. Also, a weakfish approaching 3 feet, while plausible, is definitely a rarity, especially at the top of an estuary that is relatively shallow.

Stocked Trout
The state does stock some sizable trout in the river during the spring. However, it is highly unlikely that they would stock one approaching 3 feet in the Manasquan. Also, unless the trout has been in the river for a long while, it would likely not attain the silvery coloration described.

Sea Run Brown Trout
These fish have been caught in the river in the past, with some of these catches being well over 2 feet long. They are known to enter the river during periods of high water, which was the case at the time due to recent rains. The fish are very silvery in color. However, hooking six of these fish in one day is, while not impossible, highly unlikely, especially if they were all of the size the angler described.

Based on what we know, and not having seen what this angler saw, it is nearly impossible to know for sure what was in the river that day. It is possible that it was a school of bluefish. It is also possible that brown trout are starting to return to the river in greater numbers. Or, it could be something that has not been considered before. Either way, this story contributes even more mystery to the baffling fishery that is the muddy Manasquan River.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/79/Lochnessmonster.jpg/220px-Lochnessmonster.jpg

[Wilson]

Carniverous Grass Carp

And Lard you have too much time on your hands at work!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bronzeback]

lol

[SaltLife1980]

LOL


Im going with a Bull sharks!


Jaws Part 50:D

[Sea Run Hunter]

I don't believe every fish story. The Sea Runs are in the squan. Any one that says differently, has not put the time in to catch one. I say one because you will be lucky to get one. I own part of the Manasquan river north of the dam. I fish it 2 to 3 times a weak, every weak, day and night, all year round. I have kayaked and walked fishing the entire river from West Farms to Lightning Jacks. I have caught 2 around 23" both on a 2" silver and black rapalla. One below Brice park and the other just up river from the Parkway bridge where the river divides. I continue to hunt for a monster like Paul is photoed with. That will be the only trout I don't release.

[Mark B.]

Caught December, 2000
8 lb. 8 oz.

They're out there!

[dfish28]

Hmm Sea Run Hunter... Do I know you?

[Lard Almighty]

I don't believe every fish story. The Sea Runs are in the squan. Any one that says differently, has not put the time in to catch one. I say one because you will be lucky to get one. I own part of the Manasquan river north of the dam. I fish it 2 to 3 times a weak, every weak, day and night, all year round. I have kayaked and walked fishing the entire river from West Farms to Lightning Jacks. I have caught 2 around 23" both on a 2" silver and black rapalla. One below Brice park and the other just up river from the Parkway bridge where the river divides. I continue to hunt for a monster like Paul is photoed with. That will be the only trout I don't release.The sea-runs are definitely there; there just aren't many. Those who catch them are keeping quiet, making the whole fishery very hard to evaluate. In fact, I've heard of more sea-runs being caught by surf and jetty fishermen than from the Manasquan for the past couple of years.

While I can appreciate that the sea-run program is just a side project and does not cost anglers any additional money, I still maintain that the program is largely a waste of resources. If you're willing to put in the time and effort and manage to get one of them, though, then more power to you. It beats working, at any rate!

[acabtp]

sea runs for the raritan!

[AndyS]

I do have more questions, some I guess may never be answered on this topic. If the surplus fish are stocked in the fall, then what does water temp of the Raritan have to do with anything. If the fish return in the winter, what does the water temp. of the Raritan have to do with anything. I'm no biologist but to put 15,000 trout in ONE spot annually kind of makes me wonder, are there NO other rivers in N.J that this could be tried on. I heard these fish have to be sight casted and are very skittish. I know a salmon run was tried on the Raritan years ago when it was a polluted mess, river runs great now, direct route to raritan bay and ocean.

[Mark B.]

I do have more questions, some I guess may never be answered on this topic. If the surplus fish are stocked in the fall, then what does water temp of the Raritan have to do with anything. If the fish return in the winter, what does the water temp. of the Raritan have to do with anything. I'm no biologist but to put 15,000 trout in ONE spot annually kind of makes me wonder, are there NO other rivers in N.J that this could be tried on. I heard these fish have to be sight casted and are very skittish. I know a salmon run was tried on the Raritan years ago when it was a polluted mess, river runs great now, direct route to raritan bay and ocean.


Historically, the Manasquan R. was the only NJ river from which we received reported catches of sea run brown trout from our regular spring stockings.

That fact,…..abundant public access from our WMA up through Allaire St. Park & beyond, and because it stays cold (Trout Maintenance Water) all the way to FW license line @ Bennetts Bridge are the reasons it was chosen.

Because of the Manasquan’s cold trout maintenance water, the trout can come & go (from fresh to saltwater), as they please throughout the year,…………maximizing their survival & thus increasing the chances of them being caught. During the summer months, in the Raritan, their options for survival would be to swim upstream to the TM waters of the N. & S. Branch or to swim out to colder saltwater & stay there.

As far as a salmon run tried on the Raritan years ago, that was when we were considering stocking salmon in the Delaware River. Those fish were just an “experiment”,………….to see if we could raise them @ our hatchery. Instead of the dumpster,……we stocked them in the Raritan, because it was the closest. Never expected anything from it,….& there wasn’t.

[acabtp]

good to know the thinking behind it. thanks mark!

[AndyS]

I just thought adding 15,000 additional "surplus" trout annually to an already existing sea run program would be like adding lake trout into a lake that already has a spawning population. I don’t understand why half or some of these “surplus” trout couldn’t be put into the Raritan. If in fact these are “surplus” fish what is there to lose?
I catch trout year round in the Raritan. I don’t understand the “all my eggs in one basket theory.” I need definition of “Trout Maintenance” waters if you would be so kind Mark.

[StriperGirl]

I have bow fished that area for years, caught many of them

[Mark B.]

I just thought adding 15,000 additional "surplus" trout annually to an already existing sea run program would be like adding lake trout into a lake that already has a spawning population. I don’t understand why half or some of these “surplus” trout couldn’t be put into the Raritan. If in fact these are “surplus” fish what is there to lose?
I catch trout year round in the Raritan. I don’t understand the “all my eggs in one basket theory.” I need definition of “Trout Maintenance” waters if you would be so kind Mark.

The Manasquan River's sea run brown are not reproducing, ……………I don’t think that anyone is afraid of them over populating the Manasquan River. They sea are the complete opposite of the very prolific lakers.

TP - Trout production Waters designated [at N.J.A.C. 7:9B-1.15(b)
through (g)] for use by trout for spawning or
nursery purposes during their first summer.
Young-of-the-year trout must be documented within the
sampled stream segment. Young-of-the-year (y-o-y) trout can be visually
distinguished from older trout in the field, based upon their size (typically less than
100 mm in length.

TM - Trout maintenance Waters designated [at N.J.A.C. 7:9B-1.15(b)
through (g)] for the support of trout throughout
the year. Incidence of Occurrence of trout and/or trout associated
species > 20 %

NT - Nontrout Freshwaters that have not been designated [in
N.J.A.C. 7:9B-1.15(b) through (h)] as trout
production or trout maintenance. These waters
are generally not suitable for trout because of
their physical, chemical, or biological
characteristics, but are suitable for a wide variety
of other fish species. Incidence of Occurrence of trout and/or trout associated species < 20%.

http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/pdf/cwfmp/33-52.pdf

TM water on the N. Branch ends @ the Rt. 512 near Far Hills. TM water on the S. Branch ends @ just above the RT. 31 Bridge, Flemington. From those points, downstream to the freshwater license line @ Landing Lane Bridge, New Brunswick the water is NT.

Trout, of course, are often caught in NT waters in the colder months. And, I don’t doubt that trout are, occasionally, caught in NT waters in the summer. Where, they have sought out & are basically trapped, @ a coldwater spring / seep,……………….but they are few & far between.

The sea runs best chance for growth & survival is in the Manasquan Rivers’ TM water from Route 9 all the way down to the freshwater license line @ Bennetts Bridge in our WMA.

[Mark B.]

Oh, yeah......yesterday, I caught (Yo- Zuri) & kept one those prolific lakers
(22") from RVR's shore.

Also, C & R'ed a 15" rainbow.

[tautog]

Few fish for them correctly so few catch them. I learned from Paul Ripperger and usually have some measure of success when I give it a try. Fish immediately after a rainstorm as increased fresh water seepage into the salt attracts fish to run up river. No one wants to do this because the river is a swirling mudhole and they can't see any fish in these conditions. Wait till it lowers and clears and fish will be spread out in the deepest holes, moving in only low light conditions. In these conditions, spawn is the best bait, followed by worm and killies.

If you don't have good conditions working the lower tidal part between Brice Park and Lightning Jacks can produce as the fish are staging to run the river. Lures are a better bet down here as you are more covering water than working holes. Don't fish for sea runs much anymore, but the few successful guys that do, follow these generalizations and catch. Most are sea run browns, there are a few sea run rainbows and the occasional sea run brookie. Browns get huge, I had one over 30" once, rainbows not so much, never seen one over 22".

[Mark B.]

there are a few sea run rainbows and the occasional sea run brookie.

If we can’t use them in our inland waters, for a number of years now, we stock our surplus rainbows & brookies in 2 other NJ coastal streams.

The rainbows go in the Hockhockson Brook, Tinton Falls,....as there were reports that a fishing club had stocked steelheads there in the early 1980’s, that resulted in some returns.

The brookies go in Toms River,…..as there have been reported catches of sea run brookies (salters), there.

We don’t raise 15,000 each of the above two species to 8” as we do for the Manasquan sea run browns.

These rainbows & brookies usually average around 5”,………….& often there are 10’s of thousands of them.

And,…………any surplus 5” browns go to the Manasquan in addition to the abovementioned 8 inchers.

[surfrod]

While I've never caught a searun out of the Hock, I can say for sure the surplus bows winter over nicely.

I also do know a couple of guys who *have* caught bows in the Navesink. Not many, but salt-adapted (silvery and definitely in saltwater).

[NJ Dave]

The NY State trout, salmon, and steelhead fishery is amazing.
Why cant this be done on NJ?
Aside from what lake would these fish run to to live in can't this be done in the brackish waters or would the salt just kill em?
The revenue that NY generates from all the fishing perks would bail NJ out of its financial burden.

[AndyS]

Thanx for all the feedback Mark, it is great. Do surplus trout have to be stocked into TM waters ? (last question, I promise) :D

[Lard Almighty]

If we can’t use them in our inland waters, for a number of years now, we stock our surplus rainbows & brookies in 2 other NJ coastal streams.

The rainbows go in the Hockhockson Brook, Tinton Falls,....as there were reports that a fishing club had stocked steelheads there in the early 1980’s, that resulted in some returns.

The brookies go in Toms River,…..as there have been reported catches of sea run brookies (salters), there.

We don’t raise 15,000 each of the above two species to 8” as we do for the Manasquan sea run browns.

These rainbows & brookies usually average around 5”,………….& often there are 10’s of thousands of them.

And,…………any surplus 5” browns go to the Manasquan in addition to the abovementioned 8 inchers.

Have you considered the possibility of taking all these trout and putting them in one river? Instead of spreading them out and having a few rivers with a handful of sea-runs each, maybe focus on one river and try turning it into a more prolific sea-run fishery? Plus, a mix of all three sea-run species in one river sounds interesting.

[tautog]

I had some 2 1/2 - 3lb sea run bows after that initial stocking in the Hock, never tried since. Once had a giant salter 6lb brookie at the Shark River Jetty in the early 90s. Had to get the fish book out to figure out what I caught, my first sea run ever, thought it was a salmon.

[acabtp]

Have you considered the possibility of taking all these trout and putting them in one river? Instead of spreading them out and having a few rivers with a handful of sea-runs each, maybe focus on one river and try turning it into a more prolific sea-run fishery? Plus, a mix of all three sea-run species in one river sounds interesting.
don't all three species eat eggs? probably better to put them in three separate rivers to ensure that they don't compete with one another

[Mark B.]

Yes, we try to put the surplus in TM waters.

Hockhockson is TM,.........went with that for the bows, due to the reported steelhead stocking / returns.

Toms is TM to the Route 571 bridge. Below that, to the freshwater license line it is classified Non Trout,..due to the warm influence of the Union Branch coming out of Lake Horicon. However, it does stay fairly cool,....we had gotten reports of trout caught there,......that stretch is heavily shaded.

Brookies are the most tolerant of acid water,........the main reason Toms was chosen for them.

[bulletbob]

The NY State trout, salmon, and steelhead fishery is amazing.
Why cant this be done on NJ?
Aside from what lake would these fish run to to live in can't this be done in the brackish waters or would the salt just kill em?
The revenue that NY generates from all the fishing perks would bail NJ out of its financial burden.

I live here, its not as good as you think.. ALL the resources go to the great Lakes fisheries, and thats because of tourism.. We have a lot of TM local streams that get a few yearlings in spring and thats about it... The bulk of the money and fish goes to Lake Ontario.. The Finger Lakes tribs are virtually dead .. Locals fish tthem for weeks on end for one or two fish these days.. I know, I live just a few miles from them.. I don't even bother any more... The deep trolling in the Finger Lakes is still good, if you don't mind fishing 125 feet down for a 2 pound fish.

Lampreys, zebra mussels, VHS have devastated a lot of the NJ trout fishing,,, When I see the reports you guys post from the Musky,Raritan ,RVR etc, I am jealous.. Same with the Passiac River.. The pike fishing there is WAY better than anything we have here.. I haven't caught a pike in years in Cayuga or Seneca.. We have better SMB , Lake Trout and Walleye fishing maybe, but thats about it.. NJ streams are far better managed than most of NY state streams.. Our DEC puts the fish where all the tourist money goes.. Lake Ontario...
Your stream and lake fishing is far better than what we have here for most species.. I should know, I lived and fished in NJ for 37 years before I moved here.. I had some good fishing in NJ fresh water..
Even "put and take fishing" in NJ is better.. You guys get 11-13 inch long 2 year olds.. NY stocks mainly 7-9 in yearlings.. NEVER have a I seen a big breeder thrown in to a local stream here..
So yeah, the LO trout/salmon fishing is good, and the fish are big, but as for the rest of this huge state??... Not that great... I liked Jersey better.. Simply better managed.

bob

[bulletbob]

sorry, double post...

[Lard Almighty]

I live here, its not as good as you think.. ALL the resources go to the great Lakes fisheries, and thats because of tourism.. We have a lot of TM local streams that get a few yearlings in spring and thats about it... The bulk of the money and fish goes to Lake Ontario.. The Finger Lakes tribs are virtually dead .. Locals fish tthem for weeks on end for one or two fish these days.. I know, I live just a few miles from them.. I don't even bother any more... The deep trolling in the Finger Lakes is still good, if you don't mind fishing 125 feet down for a 2 pound fish.

Lampreys, zebra mussels, VHS have devastated a lot of the NJ trout fishing,,, When I see the reports you guys post from the Musky,Raritan ,RVR etc, I am jealous.. Same with the Passiac River.. The pike fishing there is WAY better than anything we have here.. I haven't caught a pike in years in Cayuga or Seneca.. We have better SMB , Lake Trout and Walleye fishing maybe, but thats about it.. NJ streams are far better managed than most of NY state streams.. Our DEC puts the fish where all the tourist money goes.. Lake Ontario...
Your stream and lake fishing is far better than what we have here for most species.. I should know, I lived and fished in NJ for 37 years before I moved here.. I had some good fishing in NJ fresh water..
Even "put and take fishing" in NJ is better.. You guys get 11-13 inch long 2 year olds.. NY stocks mainly 7-9 in yearlings.. NEVER have a I seen a big breeder thrown in to a local stream here..
So yeah, the LO trout/salmon fishing is good, and the fish are big, but as for the rest of this huge state??... Not that great... I liked Jersey better.. Simply better managed.

bobGreat to see your input Bob. I agree that there are tremendous freshwater fishing opportunities in NJ. However, I would like to qualify your above statement by saying that the wild trout fisheries in the eastern part of New York (East/West Branch Delaware, Beaverkill, etc.) are far better than any wild trout fisheries New Jersey has to offer.

Interesting how NY pumps all its resources into Lake Ontario and leaves the rest of the state with the scraps. I guess another advantage of NJ is that the state is small enough so that nearly every body of water is accessible to everyone, so we can all go where the fish are.

[NJ Dave]

Bob,
I understand your point. Its funny, i gave up fishing nj for stocked 12-15 inch trout and drive to ny for salmon, stelies, and 10-15 lb. Browns just cause they are huge.
I guess living in nj i take what we have for granted. I can catch n release striper fish 10 min from my house in the hackensack river but drive down the shore for them, fish the ramapo river 15 min from home for trout but drive to peaquest, and pike (think they are pike ) fish 10 min from home but never even tried it knowing guys get em huge in there.
So funny how we percieve somewhere else is always better but we never settle on what we have so close to home.