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View Full Version : WINTER FLOUNDER MORE LOST$$$$$please read


Capt Sal
01-31-2010, 10:11 AM
with the bag limit of 2 flounder this spring we will not flounder fish.this will be the first time in 50 years that i will not fish raritan bay for one of my favorite fish .they are close and it is something that was done from boats 14ft.to large party boats.just one more fish taken away from us!!!!my dad who passed away 5 years ago taught me how to catch them at the early age of 5years.dad if you can hear me we are trying to get our fishery back from the big bad government.i am trying everything i know to change the MSA.there are a lot of good people working hard to protect our fishing rights.

dad i hate to give you more bad news but your favorite fish in the world the weakfish has a bag limit of 1 per day.i know it is incredible but we are trying hard to change things.fact is we need more help.we are going to march on washington on feb.24 to appeal to our elected government officials for help.

dad i remember a lot of things you taught me when i was a young man.if you belong to an organization or fishing club and do not go the meeting,don't bitch.what i can't understand is the people who make there living fishing here in new jersey are not ''all' on board.many tackle shops where you bought your bait are not going.i hope every charter and party boat will. be represented.dad you were right when you told me family comes first.if you have to work feb24 it is your obligation.dad i hope your great grandson NICO has the opportunity to catch some fish with me.dad thank you and all of the veterans for fighting in the wars to keep our country free.i guess the ball is in our court now.mom is ok and i will carry on the tradition as long as i breath.:mad:

RBC67
01-31-2010, 10:33 AM
So very true,I was reminiscing just the other day similar thoughts to my dad.

1captainron
01-31-2010, 11:07 AM
Capt.Sal,
When my dad first started in business, the spring flounder run was the kick off to the season. Back then most of the fishing was done in the Shrewsbury and Navesink rivers, as far back as Ocean port and almost to Red Bank for those who braved the shallow water.
Local steamers, (piss clams as we called them) that had been broken during harvest and couldn't be sold for food were saved for us as bait and chum.
Worms were inexpensive and we supplied them ALL DAY!!
Double headers were the norm and it wasn't uncommon to fill a 5 gallon bucket with those tasty suckers.
At that time there was no commercial pressure on the fish as they were considered "MUD BACKS" or "BLACK BACKS" and the fact that the Whiting were abundant kept the Flounder off the radar.
The big slap in the face is the fact that they just didn't close it, but think they are throwing you a bone by letting a fisherman keep two fish!! What an insult...who the hell is gonna pay to catch 2 Flounder, who is gonna fish off the dock or the beach for them?
What once was the official start of the season has now gone the way of everything else, gone and probably soon to be forgotten, kinda like us.

We don't have an endless supply of SOMETHING ELSE to fish for...The pressure on the Striper's will only end that fishery now that the flounder are done. Rest assured also, now that the Weakfish are down to 1 fish....Raritan Bay will explode this fall!!!!!!
From the way I figure, if you stand to loose 20-25 charters for Flounder and 25 or more charters for weakfish, you may just very well be out of business!!!
Sad to say but I know your Dad and my Grandfather are turning over in their graves!!!!! See you on the 24th. Capt.Ron

Capt. Lou
01-31-2010, 01:03 PM
I loved fishing for those winter flounder, my uncle took me back in the fifties bulkhead fishing @ SR. Even from shore in late February, March you could ctach a dozen or so easily.
Later on, boat fishing like Capt Ron related to in the rivers you could load up in short order. I always kicked off the flounder season arround mid March, we don't have to worry about that any more! From filling a cooler with fish to zero, great fisheries mgmt. In fact fron Barneget Bay north all sustained decent flounder runs, now alloed two fish, what a joke & it's on us for allowing this to happen, remaining silent!
How the hell did we all let this happen? I hope it isn't too late for all of us!!
See ya' on the 24th!!!

Tin Squid
01-31-2010, 01:12 PM
Having a "bag limit" of 2 fish is a crock and an outright insult. I can remember putting 50 + flounders in our boat in the Navesink in the mid 1970's in just about 2.5 hrs. Unfortunately "night dragging" in Raritan Bay in the early 1990's contributed significantly to a decline in the flounder population.

What a shame that yet another valuable resource is being lifted from rod-n-reel folks. :mad:

MartyS
01-31-2010, 01:34 PM
Having a "bag limit" of 2 fish is a crock and an outright insult. I can remember putting 50 + flounders in our boat in the Navesink in the mid 1970's in just about 2.5 hrs. Unfortunately "night dragging" in Raritan Bay in the early 1990's contributed significantly to a decline in the flounder population.

What a shame that yet another valuable resource is being lifted from rod-n-reel folks. :mad:
That bag limit of two fish is just about right to discourage most people from fishing. They are effectively closing the season without actually doing so.

We used to have great catches of flounder in the bays and channels of the south shore of LI when I was a kid. Those days are gone.

frugalfisherman
01-31-2010, 07:25 PM
Laws were made to be broken.

Solemate
01-31-2010, 07:43 PM
Fish for whatever you want to. Tell them there are plenty of fish and that you keep none. There are not enough police to stop us.

Leif
01-31-2010, 09:42 PM
Having a "bag limit" of 2 fish is a crock and an outright insult. I can remember putting 50 + flounders in our boat in the Navesink in the mid 1970's in just about 2.5 hrs. Unfortunately "night dragging" in Raritan Bay in the early 1990's contributed significantly to a decline in the flounder population.

What a shame that yet another valuable resource is being lifted from rod-n-reel folks. :mad:

There is the real problem. Those pricks ruined it for us and we have been paying.

Leif

TurboDan
02-01-2010, 01:40 AM
I'm only in my 20s and every year (including 2009) my Dad and I would always kick off our season fishing for winter flounder. Some years it was warm, other years we were freezing. Ironically, our best catch ever was probably '08 under the Mantoloking Bridge out with a local charter capt. who has since moved out of NJ.

While I'm never a fan of ANY fishing being taken away, they had to do something about winter flounder. Unfortunately they can't do it regionally within the state in order to leave more northerly locations in Monmouth County open. But below northern Barnegat Bay they have been decimated. The aforementioned Mantoloking Bridge is about all she wrote the past few years. Forked River will produce some, but not in the numbers that really make it a sustainable fishery in that area. When I was really little, we'd even catch them at the LBI Causeway Bridge!

Reel Class
02-01-2010, 06:30 AM
They still catch flounder at the causeway and at points south - problem is nobody fishes for them. One of the deckhands that will work for me on a part-time basis this summer has a house on LBI and he had a very good spring last year fishing from behind LBI all the way S towards BHI.

We used to fill five gallon buckets in a tide or two of flounders in the early 80's fishing off the abutments of the 35 bridge inside of will's hole BEFORE the "Kingsbridge" Marina (I think it was a Donzi dealership when it first opened) and its docks were built. The canal used to be the same.

This is a slap in the face to the recs - in the case of winter flounder fyke nets, draggers (NON-Rec pressure) has decimated a specie that used to be as thick as flies on poop in most of our inshore waters in the spring.

Every year I could depend on a dozen flounder trips to start out the year - no more. The only thing that's going to bring this resource back is to close the commercials to fishing for them - NOT US.

Capt Sal
02-01-2010, 09:30 AM
capt. allen you are so right.this post was put up for a number of reasons.i hoped it would get more tackle shops on board for the24 in was.each year they take away a little piece of our fishery.10 charters here 10there and before you know it you can't make a years pay.i love being a charter capt but i still need to make money.we need every single angler to be involved in changing the way noaa does things.if not guys like you and i will out of here.

Capt. Jerry P
02-01-2010, 02:48 PM
Real Shame!!! Loved Winter flounder fishing season.... Worked deck starting mar 1 every year on the Miss Point, then Nk 2 until i had my license and started running afternoon trips.... Was a great way to get out of the house and end the winter a little early!!! Some of the funniest trips meet a lot of great people.

I was against when they closed the Fall fishery (once ya lose it ya tend to not see much back and only face further closures)... Despite what most think... fishing was good in the fall right up to the closure.

plenty of winter flounder in the ocean at times were getting scooped up net and fike nets in the river... i guess all adds up over time.

but....

Even though the fishery isnt what it was... there was still enough of them to target and put a good catch together within reasonable bag limits... 2 fish is an insult... Most will not charter a boat for that... tackle shop also take a big hit that used to be the jump start of their season.

Flounder trips were a big hit last year on the Fish Monger... Letting our customers end their winter a little early come out and catch a few fish for the table. We sailed almost every fishable day for em. Not any more!!!

See ya in Washington!!!

joefish4
02-01-2010, 03:14 PM
where and how can i get information to attend these meetings and for this march... i would like to get more involved!!! thanks for any information you can provide..

1captainron
02-01-2010, 03:23 PM
joefish....

www.ssfff.net All the info you need.....
Thanks for the enthusiasm!! Hope to see you on the 24th.

Blackfish Doug
02-01-2010, 03:28 PM
I will still fish for them if anybody targets them. I only need 2 anyway 1 for me & 1 for the Mrs. I will cull my fish for the nicest size fish. All you need now is half day boat for them unless you mix up a Striper trip to go with it.

Capt Sal
02-01-2010, 06:49 PM
I will still fish for them if anybody targets them. I only need 2 anyway 1 for me & 1 for the Mrs. I will cull my fish for the nicest size fish. All you need now is half day boat for them unless you mix up a Striper trip to go with it.
sounds like a good idea doug.problem is it will never happen.if you are bass fishing and put out a dead stick you might get 1 or 2.that won't work on a head boat,it will create tangles.it would eliminate you from the pool for using 2 rods also.raritan bay also has a fall flounder run.when the ocean is rough we could hide in the west end of the bay and catch some nice flatties.all gone!!a little bit each year.we will probably have a monster run of weakfish this summer.who will go on a head boat or charter for 1 fish.all gone!!what is next?everyone posted about the great blackfishing when the limit was 1 fish.the season should be open in october!i can remember catching black fish on shrewsbury rocks in oct.long before sandy hook reef was even thought of.black fish are not a catch and release fish.they are a catch and fillet and eat fish!when the blackfish are 5 min. from my dock the bag limit is 1.when they open it to 6 the fish are gone.

MartyS
02-01-2010, 06:53 PM
when the blackfish are 5 min. from my dock the bag limit is 1.when they open it to 6 the fish are gone.
And you probably thought NOAA didn't know what they were doing.

Blackfish Doug
02-02-2010, 06:45 AM
I agree with you about the party boat thing. I would not try to fish with 2 rods anyway while Bass fishing. I like most my age fished for winter flounder all my life & will still go out at least 1 time this year for them. It's a way to kick start my season it's not always about how much you put in the bucket. It's about being out for the day talking about the great fishing of the past & fishing with some of the great fisherman from this board. I know quite a few on this board that feel the same way as I do. I hate these regulations just like everybody else does but it does have 1 upside the rod is bending more than it did in the past. Almost all of us want to remember the good trips what about the bad ones. Does anybody here remember a boat load of fisherman fishing & not 1 single fish being caught I do & it happened to me more than once. And this was not attributed to bad weather on those days either. Ever since since the regulations were put into place I have not seen this happen once. Lets just hope next year the regulation numbers will increase favorably. To me the most important thing about fishing is getting home safe. I want to thank all the party boat & charter captains for doing that enough does not said about this. Keep up the faith you put up that Flounder sign & I will still come & I'm sure others will as well.

shresearchdude
02-02-2010, 09:09 AM
Good Post Doug.

sea nymph
02-02-2010, 09:58 AM
Right on Doug!
Even know the limit is 2, it's still a time to get out, wet the line and enjoy the camaraderie. I probably won't take my boat out, but if my favorite charter captain sails, I'll be on board!
I may only catch 2, but I'll be supporting "my" Captain because I know they work hard everytime and go the extra mile! Plus, I'll just need to get out of the house and you can't put a price on a good time!

TurboDan
02-02-2010, 10:40 AM
I would think this will likely affect the charter captains most, as few people will pay the premium to have their pick of two fish. Also, these things are not overly difficult to catch (with potent chum and the correct bait) and keepers are not hard to find, meaning the full-day trip you paid for could be over in an hour or less since limiting out will be relatively easy.

The party boats may be able to do alright still, since they're a cheaper option and 1/2 day.

TurboDan
02-02-2010, 10:47 AM
FWIW, the netters' limits were also cut this year. I believe they're down to 38 fish landed per day. In the past, it also didn't help that the fyke netters would take winter flounder from Nov. 1 to Feb. 20, reducing the local population before recs even got a shot at it.

MartyS
02-02-2010, 11:13 AM
In the early spring, I'd rather go after ling and blackfish; definitely the case this year.

Last season, even with a reasonable bag limit, I didn't go out for flounder because the reports were so poor. There isn't much doubt that this fishery needs to rebuild.

I really don't mind leaving the flounder alone for a while, as long as the commercials have been constrained as well.

Topeka Boy
02-02-2010, 11:52 AM
I agree with Martys I also rather fish for ling and blackfish. Maybe some of the captains could throw in a couple of hours of winter flounder before ling and blackfish. All of our recreational fisherman are going to find different ways to catch fish WE ARE NOT GOING TO STOP!!!:(

Life's A Beach
02-02-2010, 12:55 PM
I'll still fish for them. Cost is ridiculous when you could keep 10; now it's gonna be crazy. But it's fun and tradition. And you rarely gut hook them so the ones you throw back will live.

Capt. Jerry P
02-02-2010, 01:08 PM
Good posts by everyone!!!

But even though Blackfish Doug, Brian Sea nymph, and others feel this way(which i am happy to hear) there is still a majority of other anglers who dont...

Its not all about what the angler take home, but most atleast want a chance to put a catch together to eat under reasonable limits... Flounder is a table fish.

I can tell just from our bookings (and other charter boats i talk to from here to ny) which now is mostly Bottomfishing (Blackfish ling cod) for april last year mostly flounder. A Bunch of Groups that fished for flounder last year opted for a bottom fish trip latter in the year. I cant fault them.

We love floundering and we will still sail a few flounder trips... some of our regular still wanna go and if the wind blows its better than sitting home... but with that said it will still only be prob be about 1/4 the amount of trip normal.

Again I agree flounder fishing is not what it once was... But we dont fish at all in the fall... lost 23 days on the spring end... then a bag limit (which i though was good) and now 2 fish...5 fish would have atleast gave us a shot a season

Anyone who knows us knows we give a long day and fish hard... We love to mix it up... never mind trying for another specie even if we already had a great day on another... Its tough times i want our customers $ to go a long way for them.

With that said it wont be easy trying to mix bag Blackfish out in the ocean and still have enough time in the day to flounder fish in the bay at least in our area. Time tides worms chum etc... Not saying it wont or cant be done but for boats in our area it prob wont be an easy task.

i think the point the other capts or atleast my point is it will another regulation that will cut right into the pockets of the partyboats, charterboats, and tackle shops.

Add that to Losing a couple days of fluking, seabass cloure, no weakfish....less porgies etc.
Less days to fish, Less to fish for etc:mad:

Stripers and Blackfish will be next because it will all we will be able to target putting alot of added pressure on them.

Washington....Washington!!!

jmurr711
02-02-2010, 01:13 PM
one thing i worry about is how much added pressure will this put on the spawning tog in the spring :(

Capt Sal
02-02-2010, 02:01 PM
In the early spring, I'd rather go after ling and blackfish; definitely the case this year.

Last season, even with a reasonable bag limit, I didn't go out for flounder because the reports were so poor. There isn't much doubt that this fishery needs to rebuild.

I really don't mind leaving the flounder alone for a while, as long as the commercials have been constrained as well.
i do!!it cost me money and raritan still has a run.a few of you guys say would go on a charter even with a 2 fish limit.i believe you.now try to convince 5 of your friends to come and fill the charter.it ain't going to happen.the bait and chum for flounder is expensive,i don't think you will see to many private boats flounder fishing either.going to hurt everyone including tackle shops.i wonder how many tackle shops are not going to be involved feb.24 march on washington.i made some calls and it made me puke.if they don't show don't buy any bait from them all year.i know for a fact they are not working on that day!!!!!! not many worms will be sold this spring.or for weakfish !!!

Bucktail
02-02-2010, 02:37 PM
[QUOTE=jmurr711]one thing i worry about is how much added pressure will this put on the spawning tog in the spring :(
Forget about the blackfish, the bass dont have a chance. We have bin destroying those stocks before all of this BS Regulations an now they are done. 1 bass per person entire coast an F the bonus tag would be nice.

Reel Class
02-02-2010, 03:04 PM
I might do a few too only with FAMILY charters who can take home a bag of fillets that would be enough to feed a family. I'm not sure OB trips will work - if there's interest I will do a couple of trips. I will put it in my next newsletter for February just to throw it out there, if it looks good, we'll do a few.

GDubya07
02-02-2010, 03:15 PM
Capt. Allen can vouch for me I love flounder fishing and it is my favorite for fishing and eating

As far as chartering this year maybe 1 trip or 2 not going all out because of the limit but still interested in the Family Charters

G -

Capt Sal
02-02-2010, 05:35 PM
[QUOTE=jmurr711]one thing i worry about is how much added pressure will this put on the spawning tog in the spring :(
Forget about the blackfish, the bass dont have a chance. We have bin destroying those stocks before all of this BS Regulations an now they are done. 1 bass per person entire coast an F the bonus tag would be nice.


that is your opinion are yours only.you are giving in to what we are fighting for!!!1 bass is a disaster for the for hire boats on the whole east coast.join stripers forever tree hugging a holes and leave to rest to people that really care.it has nothing to do with this post and i take exception to it.i hope i made my self clear.!!!!!!!!!are you on the bus feb 24????

dales529
02-02-2010, 05:56 PM
Forget about the blackfish, the bass dont have a chance. We have bin destroying those stocks before all of this BS Regulations an now they are done. 1 bass per person entire coast an F the bonus tag would be nice.

Bucktail
Please clarify who "we" are that have been destroying bass stocks, why you feel that way and what documentation you have to back up that "we" are actually doing so. The reason for going to Washington is to fight opinion vs science and fact.
Thanks

MartyS
02-02-2010, 06:08 PM
Bucktail
Please clarify who "we" are that have been destroying bass stocks, why you feel that way and what documentation you have to back up that "we" are actually doing so. The reason for going to Washington is to fight opinion vs science and fact.
Thanks
To add to what Dale said, several charter boat captains on this website have been self-regulating. They have been releasing larger bass to help preserve the fishery.

Reel Class
02-02-2010, 06:09 PM
2 bass limit is fine, having a bonus fish is better.

WE are not destroying the bass stocks. That's a very enviro-friendly/elitist claim to say something like that. More bass are NOT caught or are put back alive and in good shape by boat fishermen, jetty fishermen, and surf fishermen alike than they kill in a given year. To think that rod&reel guys are decimating the bass population is ridiculous.

The major reason why the MAJOR decline of the late 70's and the early 80's had everything to do with commercial fishing; gill netters, hook/line comm's, etc.

I usually keep my mouth shut with stuff like this, but that comment regarding a 1 bass limit is ridiculous and its very limited regarding the scope of everything that is going on.

TurboDan
02-02-2010, 07:51 PM
Capt. Allen: Keep us updated on flounder trips. If you ever do anything in the realm of open boat or shared charter I'd definitely be interested, my Dad would too. Maybe something like an 8am - Noon trip since the limits are so low?

Blackfish Doug
02-02-2010, 08:10 PM
Why don't somebody put up a voting poll just to see the interest. I would do it but I'm not sure how to do it. I think you would be surprised by the amount of interest. Picture was for a group of 3 fisherman

Reel Class
02-02-2010, 09:13 PM
I will do that on my email list with my guys Doug, but if someone here wants to post it on the board they certainly can. I'm not sure I have either one of you guys on my new email list so email me if you like.

As I said, if there's interest, I will probably do a few trips.

Reel Class
02-02-2010, 09:15 PM
Capt. Allen: Keep us updated on flounder trips. If you ever do anything in the realm of open boat or shared charter I'd definitely be interested, my Dad would too. Maybe something like an 8am - Noon trip since the limits are so low?

1/2 day trips work with flounders only if you're fishing the right tide; its not always a guarantee they're gonna bite on one as opposed to the other

Capt. Jerry P
02-02-2010, 09:19 PM
Thats great that there is still some interest... Like i said in previous posts we will still sail some trips for them for those who dont mind the smaller bag limit. Some of our regulars still wanna get out atleast one trip(rather than a Bunch)

Boat is available starting The day after the big liberal opener(Which we are chartered) for anyone who would like to round up 6 guys or the family for a charter.

will post open boat info and dates as we get closer add dates as interest warrants it!!!

but from the read i got and bookings thus far are leaning more towards bottomfishing... look like we will be doing a lot more blackfishing this April... Hope the ocean is kind to us!!!