Wind farms shut down

[hammer4reel]

Be nice if it stays that way .

Almost all of the bases are set at empire wind .
Hope they now just remain as fish holding structures and are never used for anything else

[AndyS]

From what I understand the Coast Guard had a problem with them.

[Ol Pedro]

I read that President Trump suspended work due to national security concerns. He also said that 1 natural gas pipeline would supply more power than all those projects combined.

[Gerry Zagorski]

They are showing up on the Navionics/Garmin Boating app charts.

You'll see here they're around 22 nautical miles off of Sandy Hook, just east of the Cholera Banks and the 3 Sisters Wreck and are in 90 feet of water.

[AndyS]

I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the president of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God

[dales529]

I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the president of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God

Except when the orders of the president of the United States contradict the Constitution of the United States so help me God!

[hammer4reel]

Except when the orders of the president of the United States contradict the Constitution of the United States so help me God!

Guess you’re talking about all of the illegal stuff the Biden Administration pulled .

[dales529]

Guess you’re talking about all of the illegal stuff the Biden Administration pulled .

It ALL matters. wish there wasn't so much division and the people took back the government and held ALL accountable. Tit for Tat is all anyone talks about and ignores the real issues at hand. Founding Fathers are rolling over in their graves and regretting not putting in more restrictions on idiots running the democracy they fought so hard to bring forward.

[bulletbob]

'running the democracy'

correction-constitutional republic. or if you wish,the term
representative republic is also applicable.. The US has never in its history been a democracy.

[dales529]

'running the democracy'

correction-constitutional republic. or if you wish,the term
representative republic is also applicable.. The US has never in its history been a democracy.

Splitting hairs there a republic is a representative democracy with some barriers like the electoral vote etc. So yes the US is a republic founded on democracy in principle. Doesn't change anything from my original post.

[NoLimit]

Splitting hairs there a republic is a representative democracy with some barriers like the electoral vote etc.

You might want to stop digging that hole. Windmills are a waste of taxpayer dollars and unlike natural gas, they kill over 30 million animals a year. Our channels get dredged every year and digging a bit more for a gas line is not going to kill anything except maybe sand worms when the fish come in to feed on them

[frugalfisherman]

They shut down fossil fuel and nuclear plants because the windmills will replace the energy generated and then shut down the windmills. See your electric bills?

[Ol Pedro]

They shut down fossil fuel and nuclear plants because the windmills will replace the energy generated and then shut down the windmills. See your electric bills?

The wind farms are supposed to replace them but can't deliver what was promised. With the media hyping it and covering the flaws and those in power profiting from it the fix was in. Now common sense tells us to stop before it gets worse. My electric bill was lower before this wind for energy stuff started. Natural gas heating and cooking has kept my electricity bill lower. It is a huge step up from oil heat .

[hammer4reel]

They shut down fossil fuel and nuclear plants because the windmills will replace the energy generated and then shut down the windmills. See your electric bills?

The projects shut down had nothing to do with NJ energy production.

The NJ projects that were shut down were done by the lease holders themselves

Reason your rates are so high is in areas where generating stations were shut down , your now buying power from out of state . And paying the highest rate to get it .

Wind turbines aren’t magic , they are one of the worst ways to produce electricity, and while they want to tell you the wind is free . The costs associated with using them is way higher than using fossil fuels .
And their hazards are ten fold .

Nuclear energy is by far safer , more efficient , and cheaper .operates in a much smaller footprint .

[bulletbob]

The wind farms are supposed to replace them but can't deliver what was promised. With the media hyping it and covering the flaws and those in power profiting from it the fix was in. Now common sense tells us to stop before it gets worse. My electric bill was lower before this wind for energy stuff started. Natural gas heating and cooking has kept my electricity bill lower. It is a huge step up from oil heat .

can't argue with this logic....

[bulletbob]

[QUOTE=hammer4reel;591879]The projects shut down had nothing to do with NJ energy production.

The NJ projects that were shut down were done by the lease holders themselves

Reason your rates are so high is in areas where generating stations were shut down , your now buying power from out of state . And paying the highest rate to get it .
can't argue with this either... We have huge solar farms and windmills all over the place here in upstate.. They have turned a lush green landscape of dairy farms and rolling hills into a horrible eyesore with farm families cashing in and either selling their land,or leasing it for vast solar farms, cell towers, or windmills in some places.. I have a friend whose family leases their hilltop land out to a cell phone co. He told me him and his entire family never have to worry about money again.. Its always about money. I had mixed feelings about the offshore wind farms.. While I hate the concept in general, I do think they would have created huge fishing opportunities, IF recreational fishermen had access.

[AndyS]

An offshore "ocean windmill" (wind turbine) uses significant amounts of synthetic lube oil, with modern, large turbines holding 80 to 300 gallons (300-1100 liters) of oil in their gearboxes, requiring periodic changes every 9-16 months, while some specialized designs might need hundreds of gallons of oil and fluids for various systems like hydraulics and cooling. The exact amount varies by turbine size, age, and design, with larger offshore models often holding more.
Oil Quantity & Types
Gearbox Oil: A single large turbine can hold 80 to over 200 gallons of synthetic oil (PAO) for its gearbox, with estimates ranging up to 300 gallons.
Hydraulic Oil: In addition to gearbox oil, turbines use hydraulic oil for pitch control, potentially adding another 40 gallons or more.
Other Fluids: Some offshore setups also involve dielectric fluid for transformers and glycol for cooling systems, adding to the total fluid requirement.
Maintenance & Usage
Oil Changes: Oil needs replacement periodically, typically every 9 to 16 months, though advanced monitoring can extend intervals.
High-Quality Oil: Due to extreme conditions (salt, wind, vibration), high-performance synthetic oils are used, which are costly.
Example Breakdown for an Offshore Turbine (Specific Project)
A breakdown from one source listed:
Gear oil: 106 gallons
Hydraulic oil: 40 gallons
Dielectric fluid: 1,585 gallons
Glycols (Propylene & Ethylene): Hundreds of gallons
Grease: ~187 gallons (used less frequently).

[hammer4reel]

An offshore "ocean windmill" (wind turbine) uses significant amounts of synthetic lube oil, with modern, large turbines holding 80 to 300 gallons (300-1100 liters) of oil in their gearboxes, requiring periodic changes every 9-16 months, while some specialized designs might need hundreds of gallons of oil and fluids for various systems like hydraulics and cooling. The exact amount varies by turbine size, age, and design, with larger offshore models often holding more.
Oil Quantity & Types
Gearbox Oil: A single large turbine can hold 80 to over 200 gallons of synthetic oil (PAO) for its gearbox, with estimates ranging up to 300 gallons.
Hydraulic Oil: In addition to gearbox oil, turbines use hydraulic oil for pitch control, potentially adding another 40 gallons or more.
Other Fluids: Some offshore setups also involve dielectric fluid for transformers and glycol for cooling systems, adding to the total fluid requirement.
Maintenance & Usage
Oil Changes: Oil needs replacement periodically, typically every 9 to 16 months, though advanced monitoring can extend intervals.
High-Quality Oil: Due to extreme conditions (salt, wind, vibration), high-performance synthetic oils are used, which are costly.
Example Breakdown for an Offshore Turbine (Specific Project)
A breakdown from one source listed:
Gear oil: 106 gallons
Hydraulic oil: 40 gallons
Dielectric fluid: 1,585 gallons
Glycols (Propylene & Ethylene): Hundreds of gallons
Grease: ~187 gallons (used less frequently).

Yep , great way to poison o ne of our greatest food sources .
And the turbine blades are already in landfills all over the place and they are considered hazardous materials

Just as solar has . Many aren’t aware but after a field is used for solar , it’s not allowed to be reused for 100 years for either animal or human food crops .

Sadly the Term GREEN
Is only about the money

[hammer4reel]

Bullet Bob ,
How would you like 150 of these turbines to be put into Lake Cayuga ?

Be fish holding structure there too . Power Aurelius and surrounding towns .
And it will only raise your current electricity rates by an additional 50%

But you need to put up with the eye sore , higher monthly electric bills for the possibility they hold some extra lake trout , and small mouth bass .

AND you can’t fish the lake for the next five years during their construction.

.

[bulletbob]

dan.. personally, it would not bother me a bit.. the Finger Lakes were ruined long ago anyway,, Rampant development, tourism, runaway agricultural development wineries covering every hillside.. These lakes are now open sewers that turn glowing, pulsating chartreuse each summer with massive algae blooms due to too much shit being poured into these once pristine glacial lakes.. Cayuga gamefish don't relate much to structure,, They mindlessly suspend near the massive schools of alewives, that is their home.. Do I WANT windmills ?... No, not really, unless a local farmer wants one to help run his dairy operation.. We see some of that, but solar is the much larger problem here. Farmers here can't wait to sell their land [or part of it] to cash in.. I can't blame them I suppose.. So I get where you guys are coming from.. Everytime I see 50 acres of green covered in Chinese made solar panels, I get disgusted, and since the Atlantic is the back yard for much of NJ, I would not want them there either.. I still say those supports would be great habitat for structure oriented salt water fish.. Is it worth it?.... I dunno, answer to that is above my pay grade... bob

[Ol Pedro]

Guess that I will have to repaint my tuna chick poppers. Those bird choppers are great chunking machines. My Plover lead heads may still work on Tog. Was going to do gunless duck hunts. Set out a big spread to lure the ducks in, call and hope they can hear it above the blade whirr , and just scoop up the whacked ducks.
Why is it that it's ok to kill protected species while building and running these killing machines? It's not ok for the rest of us ! Why not make them shutdown the choppers that are left during bird migration? Or tear them all down as ecological hazards? We had to keep below 10kt going north out of our inlet last time we were out Striper fishing. Double standard. Destroy the environment to save it. Why isn't Greta (He man) Therberg protesting this?

[Capt Sal]

Except when the orders of the president of the United States contradict the Constitution of the United States so help me God!

Guess your smarter than everyone.He is the president of all of us.TDS Has got y ou
Only an ANTI America would post a nasty comment like this
Merry Chrisymas

[reason162]

Guess your smarter than everyone.He is the president of all of us.TDS Has got y ou
Only an ANTI America would post a nasty comment like this
Merry Chrisymas

Ah yes - criticism of the Dear Leader = anti America. Not sure if Dale is smarter than "everyone" but he's almost certainly smarter than you.

Happy new year!

[Capt Sal]

Ah yes - criticism of the Dear Leader = anti America. Not sure if Dale is smarter than "everyone" but he's almost certainly smarter than you.

Happy new year!

Your opinion does not count among the real people that post on here.As far as mocking THE POTS ON A FISHING SITE SUCKS.I read your posts and they are know it all BS
SCREW THE WIND FARMS .Happy Holidays.

[hammer4reel]

Ah yes - criticism of the Dear Leader = anti America. Not sure if Dale is smarter than "everyone" but he's almost certainly smarter than you.

Happy new year!

It’s sad how bad the Democrats go out of their way to try and make the other side fail . And waste trillions of dollars doing so .
Instead of representing the entire nation the divide has wrecked this great country .

The only people politicians are working for are other politicians. None are working for America anymore .
And it’s bullshit how much money the tax payers are paying for all this waste

[Tuna Tales]

Agreed...politics always come into play on issues like these. For better or for worse.

Whatever side of the isle you are on from my end:

1. Climate Change is REAL.

2. Too many whales and other mammals were killed. Unreal how many people just looked away or stayed quiet. The booth attendees representing the Wind Farm companies at the NJ Saltwater Show acted dumb...like I was wrong. Shit happens etc. Pretty F'ed up. If you now lost your job oh well. Shit happens.

3. By not doing anything - where are we headed? Miami is slowly sinking - NC homes are being washed away. We see fish from Florida here in NJ now.

4. Agree with Dan -- I follow MA and RI Facebook feeds and posts. Their energy bills tripled in the past 2 years. I saw $400 to $600 per month electric bill statements. Unreal. These states have the Wind Farms -- why are these bills not lowered?

Rhode Island energy bill example info:

Rhode Island Energy only controls 1/3 of the bill. That covers the cost to deliver power to your home. This also includes a modest regulated return that allows us to raise low-cost capital to fund improvements. Any profits keep RIE viable, allowing us to deliver safe, reliable energy while covering costs, supporting employees and their families in Rhode Island, and enabling investors to fund infrastructure and innovation.


2/3 of the bill is not controlled by RIE factoring supply costs, policy mandates, and taxes.


5. I don't think Wind Farms are the answer - however perhaps build them on top of the mountains - lots of wind in High Point NJ. I would think less environmental impact.

6. Jobs being taken away with these Wind Farms being paused -- where was the outcry when Biden stopped the Keystone XL? Loss of jobs.

7. What is the problem with Natural Gas? Why can't we use more?

Joe T.

[reason162]

It’s sad how bad the Democrats go out of their way to try and make the other side fail . And waste trillions of dollars doing so .
Instead of representing the entire nation the divide has wrecked this great country .

The only people politicians are working for are other politicians. None are working for America anymore .
And it’s bullshit how much money the tax payers are paying for all this waste

This is so interesting. You have someone in the WH who in the first year made over 2.5 billion dollars via meme coins, having technofascist c*nts in the oval presenting him with gold plaques, deciding tariff rates based on personal gain, letting his business partner run diplomacy in the ME and Europe, letting Nvidia sell their most advanced chips to China after starting a pointless trade war with them (which we lost, btw)...

and you're bitching about democrats and wasteful spending. It's like you're living in the 90s.

Btw, the one NJ politician who just bucked his own party machine in Trenton is Andy Kim, and he's a democrat. I know it's easy to say "all politicians are corrupt" but sometimes it pays to pay a little attention. At this point if you still see everything through a partisan lens you're part of the problem. I'll happily vote for moderate, technocratic republicans, hell I'll vote for any republican with a spine at this point. If Liz Cheney ever runs for anything I can vote for, I am voting for her, and I fcking HATE her politics. But at least she's a patriot.

[hammer4reel]

This is so interesting. You have someone in the WH who in the first year made over 2.5 billion dollars via meme coins, having technofascist c*nts in the oval presenting him with gold plaques, deciding tariff rates based on personal gain, letting his business partner run diplomacy in the ME and Europe, letting Nvidia sell their most advanced chips to China after starting a pointless trade war with them (which we lost, btw)...

and you're bitching about democrats and wasteful spending. It's like you're living in the 90s.

Btw, the one NJ politician who just bucked his own party machine in Trenton is Andy Kim, and he's a democrat. I know it's easy to say "all politicians are corrupt" but sometimes it pays to pay a little attention. At this point if you still see everything through a partisan lens you're part of the problem. I'll happily vote for moderate, technocratic republicans, hell I'll vote for any republican with a spine at this point. If Liz Cheney ever runs for anything I can vote for, I am voting for her, and I fcking HATE her politics. But at least she's a patriot.

We’re definitely not in the 90’s. Instead of wasting millions they are wasting trillions . All paid for by those of us that actually worked for a living .

Constantly bringing frivolous lawsuits because we’re paying the fees , with no accountability. Most times knowing they will lose in court .

Liz Cheney a patriot , far from it .
She sells her soul to the highest bidder , has Zero care for the United States .


This country needs a middle ground party , which will never happen . One that totally works for us .
Instead both parties work against common ground , and the ones that try get pushed out .


The only way America becomes a better place for everyone is when both parties keep each other in check . AND work together .

But takes one look at the news to see if a cure was found for cancer while the Republicans hold office , the Democrats would burn the files , destroy the cure and make sure no one ever was saved .

Just look how bad they are fighting to save garbage in our foods , that other countries outlawed 40 years ago .
Another place to just follow the money .

[june181901]

Your opinion does not count among the real people that post on here.As far as mocking THE POTS ON A FISHING SITE SUCKS.I read your posts and they are know it all BS
SCREW THE WIND FARMS .Happy Holidays.

Is there a chance you might further define 'real people'? THX

[dales529]

We’re definitely not in the 90’s. Instead of wasting millions they are wasting trillions . All paid for by those of us that actually worked for a living .

Constantly bringing frivolous lawsuits because we’re paying the fees , with no accountability. Most times knowing they will lose in court .

Liz Cheney a patriot , far from it .
She sells her soul to the highest bidder , has Zero care for the United States .


This country needs a middle ground party , which will never happen . One that totally works for us .
Instead both parties work against common ground , and the ones that try get pushed out .


The only way America becomes a better place for everyone is when both parties keep each other in check . AND work together .

But takes one look at the news to see if a cure was found for cancer while the Republicans hold office , the Democrats would burn the files , destroy the cure and make sure no one ever was saved .

Just look how bad they are fighting to save garbage in our foods , that other countries outlawed 40 years ago .
Another place to just follow the money .

LOL you cant be serious. How can you possibly post this? Follow the money LMFAO . RFK JR just brought measles and whooping cough back to the USA which was erradicated decades ago by canceling medical research including pediactrics for Kids . WTF

Wasting "trillions" LOL

Hosting Saudis on our soil and in the WH who funded the 9/11 attack and calls them good people while getting a golf course and hotels deal for yeah sure his "kids" business!

Wasted Doge BS which EM left because he knew it was BS but cost many jobs?

Abuse of our Military which POTUS called "suckers" and didnt have the decency to attend the funeral of National Guard Sarah Beckstrom who he put in harms way for no reason. NG Only in his abstract vision an lies on crime.

Constant Lies on economy and inflation as he fired those that do the statistics

POTUS golf trips with security every weekend costs? Tax payer dollars!

Pardons for crypto king Zhoa that sent POTUS son 2 billion day after his release to World Liberty ? Rule of Law Party LOL

Pardon for Hernandez known drug Lord but "tough on drugs" and got more in Trump empire? Tough on crime I think NOT.

Pardon for criminals that damaged our / the peoples Capital on Jan 6 under the guise of election fraud LOL , Only fraud when they lose!

I could go on and on but this POTUS is for one thing ONLY himself . America First left the building for Foreign Gain day One .

[reason162]

I could go on and on...

and we're not even through year 1.

The kind of corruption we're seeing from this administration is so unprecedented that I don't think Americans even recognize it for what it is because we don't have any rubric to judge it by - the sheer scale of it throws off your focus...and that's just the corruption out in the open. The money changing hands in the shadows would be inconceivable - amounts that would buy and sell entire nations.

and that's on top of everything else - the way these people have debased our culture, cut basic research, pushed blood and soil nationalism, empowered lunatics and conspiracy theorists so that clowns like Laura Loomer gets to fire national security staff with deep, irreplaceable expertise - I mean Kash Patel is running the FBI ffs...the whole thing is absurd. You wouldn't believe it if you read it in a novel or saw it in a movie.

Yet people like Dan would cheer this on, while the damage being done to our society/democracy/institutions is probably irrevocable. I have never been more glad I don't have kids to worry about. This goes so far beyond Democrats and Republicans, we're literally throwing away 80 years of post-war order that we created to stroke one man's ego and enrich his family.

[hammer4reel]

LOL you cant be serious. How can you possibly post this? Follow the money LMFAO . RFK JR just brought measles and whooping cough back to the USA which was erradicated decades ago by canceling medical research including pediactrics for Kids . WTF

Wasting "trillions" LOL

Hosting Saudis on our soil and in the WH who funded the 9/11 attack and calls them good people while getting a golf course and hotels deal for yeah sure his "kids" business!

Wasted Doge BS which EM left because he knew it was BS but cost many jobs?

Abuse of our Military which POTUS called "suckers" and didnt have the decency to attend the funeral of National Guard Sarah Beckstrom who he put in harms way for no reason. NG Only in his abstract vision an lies on crime.

Constant Lies on economy and inflation as he fired those that do the statistics

POTUS golf trips with security every weekend costs? Tax payer dollars!

Pardons for crypto king Zhoa that sent POTUS son 2 billion day after his release to World Liberty ? Rule of Law Party LOL

Pardon for Hernandez known drug Lord but "tough on drugs" and got more in Trump empire? Tough on crime I think NOT.

Pardon for criminals that damaged our / the peoples Capital on Jan 6 under the guise of election fraud LOL , Only fraud when they lose!

I could go on and on but this POTUS is for one thing ONLY himself . America First left the building for Foreign Gain day One .

Sure the last president was kept in a basement closet .
Guess they had to when he started seeing and talking to ghosts for the world to see .
And the levels if corruption will never reach what was done in Bidens 4 years
Hell he just about gave this country to China on a platter .

If you think this administration is selling out the country more than the last you honestly have swallowed WAY too much koolaid
If you honestly think we are in a worse spot than we were just a year ago , you’re blind
Investments show how much better the actual economy is . Real easy to see if you follow your accounts .

Guess you think the withdrawal from Afghanistan was ok , when Biden NEVER acknowledged all the deaths and loss created there by his incompetence.

How about them actually trying to have Biden run AGAIN saying he was competent ?
Then installing an idiot , who if voting part lines you were forced to vote for .instead of running some one who could actually do the job .

[Gumada]

and we're not even through year 1.

The kind of corruption we're seeing from this administration is so unprecedented that I don't think Americans even recognize it for what it is because we don't have any rubric to judge it by - the sheer scale of it throws off your focus...and that's just the corruption out in the open. The money changing hands in the shadows would be inconceivable - amounts that would buy and sell entire nations.

and that's on top of everything else - the way these people have debased our culture, cut basic research, pushed blood and soil nationalism, empowered lunatics and conspiracy theorists so that clowns like Laura Loomer gets to fire national security staff with deep, irreplaceable expertise - I mean Kash Patel is running the FBI ffs...the whole thing is absurd. You wouldn't believe it if you read it in a novel or saw it in a movie.

Yet people like Dan would cheer this on, while the damage being done to our society/democracy/institutions is probably irrevocable. I have never been more glad I don't have kids to worry about. This goes so far beyond Democrats and Republicans, we're literally throwing away 80 years of post-war order that we created to stroke one man's ego and enrich his family.

You can’t be serious ! Uncovering corruption and graft is not corrupt. Who was in office when USAID was funding NGO’s to the tune of 100’s of billions ? Who pushed 60 billion out the door in his last month in office ? Who was running the auto pen ? Who was guilty but deemed too demented to stand trial. There is something seriously wrong with you and your unfounded hatred. Seek help !

[dales529]

Sure the last president was kept in a basement closet .
Guess they had to when he started seeing and talking to ghosts for the world to see .
And the levels if corruption will never reach what was done in Bidens 4 years
Hell he just about gave this country to China on a platter .

If you think this administration is selling out the country more than the last you honestly have swallowed WAY too much koolaid
If you honestly think we are in a worse spot than we were just a year ago , you’re blind
Investments show how much better the actual economy is . Real easy to see if you follow your accounts .

Guess you think the withdrawal from Afghanistan was ok , when Biden NEVER acknowledged all the deaths and loss created there by his incompetence.

How about them actually trying to have Biden run AGAIN saying he was competent ?
Then installing an idiot , who if voting part lines you were forced to vote for .instead of running some one who could actually do the job .

Okay so your answer is always Tit for Tat. Instead of any reasonable rebuttal to my points its always "well uh duh Biden was worse" Not sure I like Koolaid, good selling drink but didn't like it even as a kid!

Can you imagine if Biden accepted da plane da plane? 300 million (tax payer dollars) to scrub it for national security and he will be out of office before its done so it will say Trump on it when completed so he can fly to his middle east golf courses on your /our dime. That's if he leaves or circumvents the constitution again to stay.

He turned the peoples White House into looking like one of his bankrupt casinos with the tin /gold plated trinkets from the New Years Eve aisle in Walmart. All foreign leaders have to do is swing by Home Goods or Walmart to present him a gift LOL.

Investments are always good given the history of the markets but everyone (at least most) KNOW that presidents have very little to do with the success and /or failure of the markets as its speculative and run by people who are too smart to run for office! Current economy is hidden because as I stated he fired anyone who didnt give him the numbers he wanted and now doing it with the FED!

Trump Tariff Tax on the American consumer and small business: Didn't get there in my last post but has opened China to trade with more nations outside the USA than ever before and has put them way ahead in AI and rare earth minerals. I own a successful Tech / Automation business and pay these tariffs on almost every invoice wether I buy USA (which I try mostly) but some products even listed USA come from China out of anyone's control .
Trump bragged about the 12 billion bailout (taxpayer dollars) to American farmers but left out his Tariffs caused it in the first place! Soy beans.
Time will tell if these tariffs gain ground so open to see the results but not so much yet.
Add cuts to education and again this admin gives China another win!

As far as the Afghan withdrawal. Look War is War and while every single life matters there were 21 deaths in 2019 Trump / 22 in 2020 Trump / Biden and 13 in 2021 on Biden. Sucks but not crazy numbers given the situation. Compare that to Iraq 149 2009 / Bush plus 114 2010/11 / Obama withdrawals and Vietnam Saigon 502 / Nixon and Ford. War sucks and no easy way out.

Not going to answer your last statements as again its just if Trump is wrong than its Bidens fault. Last I checked the captain runs the ship and the current captain is your guy. Grab your life jackets (oh thats right he cut the budget on those) sink or swim / If you sink its Bidens fault LOL

[Gerry Zagorski]

Let this go on longer then I should have so shutting it down.