Sea Bass Limits?

[Perfesser]

Commercial boats hauling in record numbers of sea bass: https://www.nj.com/news/2024/07/jersey-shore-is-seeing-a-rapid-rise-in-ocean-temps.html
But right now, we can keep ONE?

[Broad Bill]

Three great comments from the attached article.

At peak season these days, says Gus Lovgren, a fourth-generation New Jersey fisherman, fisheries can catch 3,000 to 5,000 pounds of black sea bass in just 20 minutes. Back in the early 2000s, only 500 to 1,000 pounds out of the well-known Point Pleasant’s Fishermen’s Dock Co-Op were possible.

In New Jersey, catch limits in 2015 would have forced Burcaw in Sea Isle City to cap his spring catch at 3,000 pounds of black sea bass per week. That’s more than doubled. He can now haul in 8,000 pounds. and

For black sea bass in the mid-Atlantic, extending from New England to North Carolina, the quota has increased from just 2.2 million pounds in 2015 to 6 million pounds this year.

Add insult to injury, January through July is the spawning season so another stock with no protection during their spawn.

And the recreational angler gets this in return:

May 17–June 19: 10 fish - 23 days when fish are just arriving inshore, best shot at the stock
July 1–August 31: 1 fish - 62 days of one fish which makes the winter flounder bag limit seem generous. And each permitted commercial can haul 8,000 lbs. per week.
October 1–October 31: 10 - 31 days when the fish are headed offshore and most boats have already hauled their boats for the season.
November 1–December 31: 15 fish - 61 days when only the long range party boats are able to reach the stock.

Not exactly sure how this qualifies as a "fair and equitable allocation" of the oceans resources between sectors as mandated by MSA.

Here's a quote regarding the dynamics of the stock.

50-72°F.
Black sea bass are classified as a warm water species, meaning the species is more tolerant of warmer temperatures compared to colder. More specifically, these species prefer water temperatures of 11-22°C or 50-72°F. Kind a refutes the point of the article these fish would move north to colder waters. Again, sacrifices made by the recreational sector to rebuild the stock and when it is more than rebuilt who benefits from those sacrifices?

https://allfreshseafood.com/products/fresh-black-sea-bass-fillet-2-ea-8-oz-portions-1-lb?variant=43911077888233&currency=USD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&wickedsource=google&wickedid=CjwKCAjwqf20BhBwEiwAt7dtdceGG1RRApCrB6Z1I YYwoDlw1bTghqL4-dB5iSohRwhY1XOinDbAARoCP0UQAvD_BwE&wickedid=&wcid=21016369113&wv=4&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwqf20BhBwEiwAt7dtdceGG1RRApCrB6Z1IYYw oDlw1bTghqL4-dB5iSohRwhY1XOinDbAARoCP0UQAvD_BwE

At $36.99 / lb. retail, recreational will never get their fair share of the allocation regardless of how the regulations read. For that price, I'd rather go through the McDonald's drive thru and get a quarter lb. cheeseburger and fries for $20! The recreational angler can harvest 1 fish while the stock is within reach inshore while commercial operators can harvest 8,000 lbs. per week. God help us and God help these fisheries.

[AndyS]

Just be sure to sign up for the Saltwater Registry and all will be fine.

[dales529]

Just be sure to sign up for the Saltwater Registry and all will be fine.

One day and i wont wait for it you have to explain your opposition to the SW Registry? Do you think it gives commercials or the government an upper hand?
:confused:

[AndyS]

One day and i wont wait for it you have to explain your opposition to the SW Registry? Do you think it gives commercials or the government an upper hand?
:confused:

It's not that I really oppose it, I just want to know why no one questions it.

[bunker dunker]

i'm with Andy.seems like we sign,donate and protest but never really get the
real scoops.{imo}

[Duffman]

It's not that I really oppose it, I just want to know why no one questions it.

I don’t question it because in the big picture my questioning the registry is meaningless.

The WHOLE and ONLY reason I register is I refuse to be fined for something that is free to do. I pay this state enough money. All I need is on the water fine for this meaningless registry.

[AndyS]

I remember when everyone jumped on a bus and rode to Washington.

Then they impose a Saltwater Registry and not one person asked the question "WHY"

I don't want to ask permission to go fishing in the Atlantic Ocean.

[dales529]

Basically in 2006 through the Magnason Stevens Act the Government through NOAA created a Mandatory Registry for all costal states that could be accomplished via a fee based registry $15.00 or a Salt water license (proposed around $25.00). It also left states to decide and there was an option for a free registry. With much pushback from NJ saltwater anglers on a fee based registry or a license the free registry was created in NJ I believe around 2010. Main reason for the pushback of a fee based system was NJ anglers wanted any fees going directly back into the fishery vs a "general fund" where the $$ could be used for anything state wide unlike NJ Fresh Water licenses $$. I think we all can agree on that.

Simply the registry was created to give NOAA a better data base to contact anglers about catch and effort data rather than cold calling or random dock surveys. I have to admit to never being contacted and sure most of you haven't.

It also created a "count my fish" data log at NJF&G which I believe still exists where anglers can report catch data, effort in days on the water, days off the water due to weather etc and add more data than the flawed MRIP but not many if any anglers use it. If we did there may be better data for regulations management.

Its FREE and simple but again mandatory and I personally have nothing against it but open to opinion ( I have o stake in it just never bothered me).

MANY ARTICLES AVAILABLE ONLINE AS TO THE WHY AND WHAT ITS INTENDED PURPOSE IS: JUST 1 BELOW. Google why was the NJ salt water registry created and you will find more.

https://www.nj.com/cumberland/2012/09/new_jerseys_saltwater_fishing.html

[Duffman]

Basically in 2006 through the Magnason Stevens Act the Government through NOAA created a Mandatory Registry for all costal states that could be accomplished via a fee based registry $15.00 or a Salt water license (proposed around $25.00). It also left states to decide and there was an option for a free registry. With much pushback from NJ saltwater anglers on a fee based registry or a license the free registry was created in NJ I believe around 2010. Main reason for the pushback of a fee based system was NJ anglers wanted any fees going directly back into the fishery vs a "general fund" where the $$ could be used for anything state wide unlike NJ Fresh Water licenses $$. I think we all can agree on that.

Simply the registry was created to give NOAA a better data base to contact anglers about catch and effort data rather than cold calling or random dock surveys. I have to admit to never being contacted and sure most of you haven't.

It also created a "count my fish" data log at NJF&G which I believe still exists where anglers can report catch data, effort in days on the water, days off the water due to weather etc and add more data than the flawed MRIP but not many if any anglers use it. If we did there may be better data for regulations management.

Its FREE and simple but again mandatory and I personally have nothing against it but open to opinion ( I have o stake in it just never bothered me).

MANY ARTICLES AVAILABLE ONLINE AS TO THE WHY AND WHAT ITS INTENDED PURPOSE IS: JUST 1 BELOW. Google why was the NJ salt water registry created and you will find more.

https://www.nj.com/cumberland/2012/09/new_jerseys_saltwater_fishing.html


OK Dave as you stated there was a pushback that if they did charge for the registry or a license the monies brought in wouldn’t go back into the fishery…..

So my question is……where is the money going for the fines handed out for NOT registering for the SW registry? And if those fines aren’t going back into fishery, what the hell is the difference?

[bulletbob]

sorry, I see a "free but mandatory" registration as a prelude to something a lot more ominous.. WHY does the government need to know who fishes in salt water, and where??. Whats the real reason?.. This sort of mandatory but ""free"" crap has throughout history been a prelude to a loss of rights, freedoms, and the start of fines,penalties, confiscations etc.. You gentlemen are far too trusting of government... bob

[dales529]

OK Dave as you stated there was a pushback that if they did charge for the registry or a license the monies brought in wouldn’t go back into the fishery…..

So my question is……where is the money going for the fines handed out for NOT registering for the SW registry? And if those fines aren’t going back into fishery, what the hell is the difference?

Duff
Do you know anyone who has been fined? So I would imagine any fine money would be significantly less than a couple hundred thousand NJ anglers paying $15 to $25.00 each going to a general fund . For instance say 200,000 anglers pay $15 each that is 3 million bucks into a non fishery budget and say even 50,000 get fined ( which I would assume is a very high number) = $750,000 so you lost 2,250,000.00 for the state to do whatever it wants with. ALL HYPOTHETICAL numbers. Best its a free registry in my opinion.

[dales529]

sorry, I see a "free but mandatory" registration as a prelude to something a lot more ominous.. WHY does the government need to know who fishes in salt water, and where??. Whats the real reason?.. This sort of mandatory but ""free"" crap has throughout history been a prelude to a loss of rights, freedoms, and the start of fines,penalties, confiscations etc.. You gentlemen are far too trusting of government... bob

Bob, since this has been in place for 14 years with no loss of rights, freedoms etc I dont think there is much to worry about. The WHY was simply a way to get more data from fisherman that are actually on the water. Instead because people are scared of possible implications we got MRIP which created the crap regulations we have.

[AndyS]

You can't be fined for something that is free.

If it were a LAW you could then be fined.

Why does the guy surf fishing with an 11 weight fly rod in the fall not retaining a single fish need to register ?

[dales529]

You can't be fined for something that is free.

If it were a LAW you could then be fined.

Why does the guy surf fishing with an 11 weight fly rod in the fall not retaining a single fish need to register ?

Andy while I don't disagree with you it is an NJ Administrative Order which can carry the same influence as a law. See below and read the order done by Chris Christie then Gov. and Bob Martin NJ DEP in 2011

https://dep.nj.gov/njfw/fishing/marine/saltwater-registry/

Also sorry to the original poster as the thread got a little highjacked on the registry. To that point seabass regs really suck for recreationals!!!

[Broad Bill]

Gentlemen relax you're starting to sound like me:)! And as Jack Nicolson said in Anger Management, just say Goosfraba and everything will be fine.

https://www.tiktok.com/@netflixisajoke/video/7319147661410503982?lang=en

And remember, no talk of politics on the site and be civil to one another. That was sound advice I received from a very prominent person;).

[Duffman]

Duff
Do you know anyone who has been fined? .

No I don’t. And I’ve only been asked for SW registry card 1 time in all the years it’s been in effect. And I get checked often. Not sure why.

If this SW registry is supposed too give the state an idea of how many people are fishing how accurate could it possibly be? I’m willing to bet there are 2X the people unregistered as there are registered.

[hammer4reel]

It's not that I really oppose it, I just want to know why no one questions it.

https://dep.nj.gov/njfw/fishing/marine/saltwater-registry/#:~:text=The%20registry%20is%20an%20important,and% 20reports%20recreational%20fishing%20data.

Most don’t question it because it was put in place to AVOID you needing to buy a salt water license , OR to need to pay 15 bucks to be registered in the federal program .

If you don’t want a salt water license it’s pretty stupid to NOT sign up for the free registry .

It’s their way of accounting how many are utilizing the resource , and an aid in setting bag limits so everyone gets a piece of the pie .

.

[Duffman]

https://dep.nj.gov/njfw/fishing/marine/saltwater-registry/#:~:text=The%20registry%20is%20an%20important,and% 20reports%20recreational%20fishing%20data.

Most don’t question it because it was put in place to AVOID you needing to buy a salt water license , OR to need to pay 15 bucks to be registered in the federal program .

If you don’t want a salt water license it’s pretty stupid to NOT sign up for the free registry .

It’s their way of accounting how many are utilizing the resource , and an aid in setting bag limits so everyone gets a piece of the pie .

.

Would a dedicated saltwater license that costs $15-$20-$25 or whatever yearly mean the hiring of more CO’s? If that was the case I’d be all for it.

Go ahead and kill me Bob for wanting more govt

[AndyS]

With all due respect Dan, if what you are saying is true I can get my aunts, uncles, neighbors, brothers and sisters to sign up for the FREE Saltwater Registry, then we will get an increase in bag limits and longer seasons.
I can go down to local craft bazar and get hoards of people to sign up, even though none of them go fishing.
I can even get people from Pennsylvania to sign up !!!

[dales529]

Couple of points:
1) Not everything is a conspiracy theory!
2) In its intention the registry adopted by NJ was to aid NOAA and NJ with direct feedback from NJ anglers on the water and if utilized properly without the conspiracy crap it may have educated the management councils on a more accurate fish count but more important fishing "EFFORT" which is overly inflated. Instead anglers choose to buy in to its bad and we are stuck with a faulty (admitted by NOAA) MRIP program that overestimates catch and effort ten fold which then leads to faulty regulations /increased sizes/ lower bag limits etc.
3) Accountability is required not only from management but also from anglers and there is very little from either side. Dont blame the intention but the process where neither side helps the other.

[hammer4reel]

With all due respect Dan, if what you are saying is true I can get my aunts, uncles, neighbors, brothers and sisters to sign up for the FREE Saltwater Registry, then we will get an increase in bag limits and longer seasons.
I can go down to local craft bazar and get hoards of people to sign up, even though none of them go fishing.
I can even get people from Pennsylvania to sign up !!!

It gives recreational fisherman , a bigger voice .
But not sure it would increase bag limits .
It’s a management tool .

But its purpose was because the Feds said we either gave a license or register with them for 15 bucks .

Because NJFG was told they were not going to get more revenue to hire more CO they opted for a free registry instead .
One of the few times they didn’t take your money when they could have .

I personally would rather see a paid saltwater license .
Use the resource , pay for the resource .
.
And IMO we would get way more back in funds from actual moneys spent already on the excise tax we pay on all the gear we buy .

.

[AndyS]

I have no problem buying a saltwater license. If I pay for something and get nothing in return, well that's going to be a problem.
I remember when they first implemented the free Saltwater Registry, the big "bust" for not having one was a visitor from Pennsylvania fishing with his son at the Manasquan inlet. Should people from out of state be required to sign up ???

[tautog]

Is anyone getting fined for not having the registry? I get checked at the canal several times a year, and the COs have never even asked about it.

[bunker dunker]

i gotta ask.why when folks ask questions or state their thoughts, does it always have to be a conspiracy theory. can't someone just ask a question about the
where and whats anymore??.

[Broad Bill]

i gotta ask.why when folks ask questions or state their thoughts, does it always have to be a conspiracy theory. can't someone just ask a question about the
where and whats anymore??.

BD in my opinion fisheries regulations have gotten so bad people are just fed up and even when something which appears as benign as the salt water registry comes up it becomes a powder keg. Being older, and hopefully wiser, fisheries years ago ALL were healthy year in and year out. There was never a question, you just knew every year fishing was going to be great. We lived through the ground fish debacle when our government sold our resources to Russia, decimating the cod, pollock, whiting and ling stocks. We lived through the striper fishery being destroyed by southern states being allowed to annihilated the breeders during their spawn. We lived through the toll recreational anglers and purse seiners did to the weakfish stock and then one by one every fishery seems to have gotten worse. We lived through the winter flounder fishery being handed to the commercial sector after they destroyed the summer flounder fishery and that great year in year out fishery hasn't recovered in 45 years and never will. All while our esteemed fisheries management bodies sat by and watched and in many cases caused these declines while corrective measures were nowhere to be found.

It's management's responsibility to manage current conditions, create a workable balance so both sectors benefit while the fishery sustains itself and very simply they're not. They're playing politics with public resources and this isn't just with fisheries management, it's true with our everyday lives and quality of life being more and more controlled and influenced by government. People are sick and tired of being told by politicians or figureheads who don't have their best interests at heart what they can and can't do so those same individuals can make millions while playing judge and jury or Russian roulette with our lives. This isn't as simple as vote your conscience to have representatives in office who share your individual values, our institutions in this country have become so corrupt truthfully I don't know what a path to change is anymore. Just look at what's happened in this country the last few weeks, it's an embarrassment to us all.

[bulletbob]

well done... Your words speak the heart of many I would imagine....bob

[dales529]

i gotta ask.why when folks ask questions or state their thoughts, does it always have to be a conspiracy theory. can't someone just ask a question about the
where and whats anymore??.

Agreed and exactly what I posted! Thanks