Ultralight spin vs. Fly Fishing for NJ trout....

[Chrisper4694]

New episode last week debated ultra light spin fishing vs fly fishing for NJ trout... I've firmly settled in on ultra light spin being way more effective in NJ for trout, but fly fishermen will argue the opposite.

Here's the episode link:

https://youtu.be/1hilUZJi3_Y?si=Uvw89WdgKX1vwZeh

We plan on doing a massive experiment to test the effectiveness of each method on NJ trout over the course of many months and rivers.

[Capt. Lou]

Spin much more effective for trout in NJ streams ! 95 % of NJ trout are stocked they are more apt not rely on bugs for their major food .
They may not be in a given river long enough to develop those skills . However they can and do overtime , especially if good hatches are present .
I’ve witnessed stocked cos taking bugs after a few days in a stream !
The cavieat is the big girls . They prefer a meal and probably shift over to minnows overtime .
A fly guy and I’m one of them finds it tougher to cover water as effectively to take consistently and seldom have the ability to excite a fish into the strike .
While if you work lures and bait properly you can elicit reactionary strikes !
Also the fly guy usually works less water on a given day than a good lure fishermen!
Most trout fishermen fish over the fish with spin gear but the guy who knows how to read and present lure properly will out fish a fly guy alm the time !
I’ve caught numerous big trout in water that very difficult to cover with a fly .
When you understand how to catch big trout with spin gear the average fly angler cannot compete .
I’ve taken numerous big fish in NJ hardest pressed waters up to 10#’s would have never done it with a fly rod !

[Broad Bill]

It's like trying to compare chunking for tuna to trolling and or jigging them. Each technique has a time and place. But for anyone who hasn't experienced it, being on the water with trout rising on a hatch and figuring out the pattern, well let's just say you have to experience it to realize how satisfying and rewarding it is watching a trout rise on your fly especially if you tie your own. Or even fishing sub surface wet flies, nymphs or streamers. Indescribable!

I also agree with Capt. Lou in general although there's a lot of very large savvy trout that fall to flies fished properly, in the right conditions and especially when it comes to large browns at night. Just check out legendary Joe Humphrey's Pa. 34" state record brown trout on a fly and story in the attached link. Picture is about three quarters of the way down the article.

Lot of monster browns in the Delaware that wash in from stocked tributaries in NJ and Pa. Big water, big profile flies and late night fishing and don't be surprised hooking one of the giants in that system. Big browns will lie in the cooler deep water holes during the day and feed almost exclusively at night.

http://www.52weekseason.com/home/2017/2/24/joe-humphreys

[AndyS]

Very few bug hatches in NJ compared with NY and Pa.

[bigfishy]

Very few bug hatches in NJ compared with NY and Pa.

True statement!! This is one of the reasons that i rarely fly fish Jersey

[Broad Bill]

The Brodhead, Cherry Creek, Lehigh, Musky and Flat Brook are just a few of the tributaries flowing into the Delaware in NJ / Pa. in our area. They all have brown trout, with significant amounts of sizeable natural browns. I completely agree there's substantially more hatches the further north you go but the big browns in the Delaware in our area are primarily nocturnal feeders and the larger fish are focused on larger presentations.

[bulletbob]

Even when there are hatches, bait or the right lure will take trout in streams, unless the hatch is one of those events where there is just so much food available that all the fish in the stream are keying on it and nothing else

Very few trout when hungry will pass up a live worm or minnow, crayfish,Hellgramite, etcz, unless they are 100% keyed on one food source alone to the exclusion of everything else.. I have seen this a few times over the years, but in my particular experience, its not all the common.. Natural bait, or good convincing artificials are at least as effective as a good fly presentation in most eastern streams most of the time... bob

[drjjpdc]

Lou,
Here is the operative phrase and use.

"While if you work lures and bait properly you can elicit reactionary strikes! Also the fly guy usually works less water on a given day than a good lure fishermen!"

The key word is works. When I am fishing with my fly rod it's never work. :)

[Drossi]

Even when there are hatches, bait or the right lure will take trout in streams, unless the hatch is one of those events where there is just so much food available that all the fish in the stream are keying on it and nothing else

Very few trout when hungry will pass up a live worm or minnow, crayfish,Hellgramite, etcz, unless they are 100% keyed on one food source alone to the exclusion of everything else.. I have seen this a few times over the years, but in my particular experience, its not all the common.. Natural bait, or good convincing artificials are at least as effective as a good fly presentation in most eastern streams most of the time... bob

A good bait fisherman will outfish flies and lures pretty much every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

[Drossi]

While if you work lures and bait properly you can elicit reactionary strikes !
Also the fly guy usually works less water on a given day than a good lure fishermen!


You can both elicit predatory strikes and cover a lot of water fishing streamers, with the articulated ones geared towards moving large fish as well. Really the hardcore streamer guys pretty much fishing in the same manner as someone slinging lures. Different gear but the principles are very similar. Flyfishing isn't always for the dainty size 20's.

[bulletbob]

A good bait fisherman will outfish flies and lures pretty much every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

agreed.. For a long time, I used lures most of the time.. As I get a lot older, with LESS patience, i use bait more and more depending on what I'm fishing for.. plain old worm and bobber works as well as it ever did... bob

[Capt. Lou]

That’s very true however after putting my time in with both fly and spin I’ll still maintain that on local waters fly guys have it much tougher.
These fish are pressed more then if your fly fishing out west , Alaska or any where in the world that fish are numerous and anglers aren’t ! Even big rivers like the upper Delaware which I fished with fly rod for many years , with primarily with streamers and appropriate lines , only one big fish about 5#’s !
Caught many mostly browns 20”’s being a big one .
I owned a resort for many years up there and fished almost every day in season .

[Godrew1972]

I enjoy catching them either way but I definitely catch more NJ trout on a spinner with 4lb test. My PB NJ rainbow was on a spinner first week on january, bitter cold a few years ago. She wasn't huge but it was huge for me, 4plus lb and on 4lb test hitting a spinner in the moving water was sweet. Plus Nj has some nice spots that are pretty tight casting, sometime spinner is also more convenient.

[senkosam]

A good bait fisherman will outfish flies and lures pretty much every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

True if forced to fish one or a few spots. But lures not only cover territory, they find fish and fish patterns that bait and flies can not. Finesse lures outfish flies in my experience because of the huge variety of lure actions, shapes, sizes and lure speeds applied. Larger lures can get reaction strikes better from larger fish - trout not being much different than most freshwaterbullies.

Convincing fish of this or that or fishing for hungry fish seems second thought when the only thing important is how irritable or active the fish is when it senses your lure. For all I know it just ate and has a full belly.

In the sense of suspended school fish minding their own business, here comes a lure one gets hooked on and BAM! more are caught one after another. A fly may get the response, though doubtful in my experience with other freshwater species.

JMHO and 50 yrs. experience

[Drossi]

True if forced to fish one or a few spots. But lures not only cover territory, they find fish and fish patterns that bait and flies can not. Finesse lures outfish flies in my experience because of the huge variety of lure actions, shapes, sizes and lure speeds applied. Larger lures can get reaction strikes better from larger fish - trout not being much different than most freshwaterbullies.

Convincing fish of this or that or fishing for hungry fish seems second thought when the only thing important is how irritable or active the fish is when it senses your lure. For all I know it just ate and has a full belly.

In the sense of suspended school fish minding their own business, here comes a lure one gets hooked on and BAM! more are caught one after another. A fly may get the response, though doubtful in my experience with other freshwater species.

JMHO and 50 yrs. experience

IMHO and 45 years experience (you got me by 5). One can accomplish both depending upon fly selection. A good streamer guy will cover just as much water as a lure fisherman at pretty much the same pace. It's really just gear preference the methods and tactics are kindred spirits. Wet fly fishing can be similar in scope and tactic as well.

Do you consider hair jigs flies or lures? They will certainly get attention of multiple species, same for buggers and articulated streamers. Not all flies are dainty, match the hatch, size 20's. :)

BTW - when I fished bait I covered a good amount of territory :) No moss grows on a rolling stone.