Another dead whale today …..

[shrimpman steve]

Sierra club denies sonar testing for wind farms is the cause

HOW THE F*** CAN THEY MAKE THAT STATEMENT.

[AndrewT]

Money is how

[bulletbob]

Sierra club denies sonar testing for wind farms is the cause

HOW THE F*** CAN THEY MAKE THAT STATEMENT.

The Sierra Club decades ago was a legit, caring environmental organization without any political agenda,, they wanted to protect the environment. Conservatives, liberals worked side by side. At some point, they became more and more a radical leftist entity, totally PC and woke that denies any wrongdoing by government, as long as the government is democrat/leftist.

The whales are dying because ""green energy"" has been deemed the savior of all mankind, and is the darling love child of the socialist left.. So the Sierra Club, WILL defend that cause to the death... The whales and whatever sea life that is destroyed is totally inconsequential, as long as the radical environmentalist agenda is achieved.
Where's Greenpeace as well??.. again, highjacked by the environmental leftist whack jobs.. They make NO noise, as long as the far left agenda is being upheld, and pushed forward.... bob

[bulletbob]

...

[cukes]

The Sierra Club decades ago was a legit, caring environmental organization without any political agenda,, they wanted to protect the environment. Conservatives, liberals worked side by side. At some point, they became more and more a radical leftist entity, totally PC and woke that denies any wrongdoing by government, as long as the government is democrat/leftist.

The whales are dying because ""green energy"" has been deemed the savior of all mankind, and is the darling love child of the socialist left.. So the Sierra Club, WILL defend that cause to the death... The whales and whatever sea life that is destroyed is totally inconsequential, as long as the radical environmentalist agenda is achieved.
Where's Greenpeace as well??.. again, highjacked by the environmental leftist whack jobs.. They make NO noise, as long as the far left agenda is being upheld, and pushed forward.... bob well said and true, love makes the world go round but it's money that greases the wheels

[bulletbob]

I hate the fact that these once reputable environmental watchdog organizations that wielded real power and influence have fallen to radical leftist "progressive" causes, and all is well as long as the woke agenda is pushed through... Green energy trumps all else at this time, no matter what the consequences to the environment are... btw, before anyone labels me a right wing fascist "hater", let me say I personally was all for the offshore wind farms.
Eventually they will provide spectacular fishing, there's no doubt in my mind...
However, to say that all these poor whales turning up dead and the geographical sonar surveys are a coincidence???.. Yeah, I don't buy that for one second.. bob

[Blind Squirrel]

The whales and whatever sea life that is destroyed is totally inconsequential, as long as the radical environmentalist agenda is achieved.
Where's Greenpeace as well??.. again, highjacked by the environmental leftist whack jobs.. They make NO noise, as long as the far left agenda is being upheld, and pushed forward.... bob
If a "radical environmentalist agenda" even exists, it most likely doesn't include dead whales and other destroyed sea life, regardless of whatever cause or causes are assigned to the recent whale deaths by Big Oil & Tucker Carlson. Most environmental groups are supportive of scientific investigation, not profit-driven industry gaslighting, and have found no evidence that offshore wind turbine surveying & construction are nearly as harmful to marine life as similar activities related to offshore drilling. Let's give rationality a chance, not have another "Jewish space laser" moment while global climate change continues to make our planet increasingly less habitable.

[bulletbob]

Look I won't argue, but the woke left is behind the "green energy" push thats filling the hillsides, mountaintops, and waterways with thousands of monstrous wind generators.. Killing birds of every stripe on land and sea, and now killing Cetaceans en masse'... Its not conservative environmentalists that are perpetrating this fiasco.

Those soundings ARE killing these wonderful creatures created by God, despite what the PC environuts say... You have your belief system, I have mine.. I won't convince you that they are being killed due to the geo sounding for these generators, and you will never convince me they aren't.. We simply agree to disagree.... bob

[Blind Squirrel]

I won't convince you that they are being killed due to the geo sounding for these generators, and you will never convince me they aren't.. We simply agree to disagree.... bob
My belief system's based on facts & evidence, little to none of which exists so far connecting the relatively non-intrusive sonic mapping by the wind turbine industry to the recent increase in whale carcasses on NY & NJ beaches. Rest assured that "the environmental leftist whack jobs" & "PC environuts" you love to disparage will be your staunchest allies if new discovery warrants it. In the meantime, please feel free to pay some attention to the devastating effects of global climate change on those wonderful creatures you care so much about.

[bulletbob]

Yeah, good luck with that opinion here..... bob

[AndrewT]

My belief system's based on facts & evidence

Sounds familiar. “Trust the science”

[reason162]

Sounds familiar. “Trust the science”

Shouldn't trust anything blindly, but what's your alternative way of knowing about the world - revelation? "doing your own research"? throwing tea leaves into the wind?

[reason162]

Yeah, good luck with that opinion here..... bob

Meaning what - most people here agree with you? 1) that would be depressing, and 2) who cares?

[Blind Squirrel]

Sounds familiar. “Trust the science”
Sounds familiar. “Trust the fossil fuel industry and its right-wing media shills”:(

[bulletbob]

Sounds familiar. “Trust the fossil fuel industry and its right-wing media shills”:(

Oh , do you mean the ""fossil fuel industry"" that makes it possible for you to spool your reel with new line?.. Provide the fuel for the intense heat required to forge your hooks? Or maybe the fossil fuel industry that allows you to haul your ass out to where the fish are...

Oh, maybe you are "green minded" and fish out of a yak ... Oh but wait,, aren't yaks made of plastic??. Isn't yak plastic made from oats or something??.. Or is it petroleum???.. I forget.... Meanwhile the great whales are dying ALL OF a SUDDEN, in the areas where the geo sounding is occurring.. Just coincidence I'm sure...

[hammer4reel]

My belief system's based on facts & evidence, little to none of which exists so far connecting the relatively non-intrusive sonic mapping by the wind turbine industry to the recent increase in whale carcasses on NY & NJ beaches. Rest assured that "the environmental leftist whack jobs" & "PC environuts" you love to disparage will be your staunchest allies if new discovery warrants it. In the meantime, please feel free to pay some attention to the devastating effects of global climate change on those wonderful creatures you care so much about.

Average whale death until the sonar started was 1 whale every 3 years
In the last month the amount of whales that died would have been 24 years worth .
So you would think with an increase of approx 300 percent more whales dying should start to be asked hard questions

[Blind Squirrel]

Oh , do you mean the ""fossil fuel industry"" that makes it possible for you to spool your reel with new line?.. Provide the fuel for the intense heat required to forge your hooks? Or maybe the fossil fuel industry that allows you to haul your ass out to where the fish are...

Oh, maybe you are "green minded" and fish out of a yak ... Oh but wait,, aren't yaks made of plastic??. Isn't yak plastic made from oats or something??.. Or is it petroleum???.. I forget.... Meanwhile the great whales are dying ALL OF a SUDDEN, in the areas where the geo sounding is occurring.. Just coincidence I'm sure...
I mean the fossil fuel industry that can do no wrong, and whose explanations of new phenomena should never be questioned b/c we're so dependent on them. Any alternative technology that threatens them is bad. :)

[Skolmann]

Average whale death until the sonar started was 1 whale every 3 years
In the last month the amount of whales that died would have been 24 years worth .
So you would think with an increase of approx 300 percent more whales dying should start to be asked hard questions

Please do not dispute an emotional, unsubstantiated rant with facts and logic.

Thank you for your cooperation-The Management.

[Blind Squirrel]

Average whale death until the sonar started was 1 whale every 3 years
In the last month the amount of whales that died would have been 24 years worth .
So you would think with an increase of approx 300 percent more whales dying should start to be asked hard questions
There's no shortage of hard questions re: unexplained whale deaths. (https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Begging-the-Question)

[Blind Squirrel]

Please do not dispute an emotional, unsubstantiated rant with facts and logic.

Thank you for your cooperation-The Management.

Please do not confuse sophistry and deception with facts and logic.
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/01/29/whale-deaths-new-jersey-offshore-wind-00079462

[AndrewT]

Sounds familiar. “Trust the fossil fuel industry and its right-wing media shills”:(

Don’t get me wrong, both sides skew science, data, etc. I’m not a fan of politicians. But what is the harm with shutting down the project for awhile to do more studies?. If a republican governor green lighted a fracking project and abnormally high wildlife deaths were occurring at the same time , would you be ok with the project continuing?

[bulletbob]

Look, I don't want to pile up on any of our forum mates..
Its just that the argument doesn't hold water..

These animals entire lives are based around sonar.. They use it to find each other, to find food,, to navigate, to avoid obstructions etc...

I would imagine that anything that disrupts the functionality of their natural sonar capability might cause MAJOR problems,,, To the point where they might beach themselves, lose the ability to know how deep they are , possibly drown, run into one another... I dunno, the possibilities are pretty substantial...
NO correlation????... yeah, having a tough time with that concept.... bob

[bulletbob]

btw, Just to be clear, their "natural sonar", is not actually sonar.. Its called echolocation, and its a well documented fact that it is disrupted badly by sonar..

[bulletbob]

Research has recently shown that beaked and blue whales are sensitive to mid-frequency active sonar and move rapidly away from the source of the sonar, a response that disrupts their feeding and can cause mass strandings. [2] Some marine animals, such as whales and dolphins, use echolocation or "biosonar" systems to locate predators and prey.
Marine mammals and sonar - Wikipedia


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_mammals_and_sonar

[Blind Squirrel]

Look, I don't want to pile up on any of our forum mates..
Its just that the argument doesn't hold water..

These animals entire lives are based around sonar.. They use it to find each other, to find food,, to navigate, to avoid obstructions etc...

I would imagine that anything that disrupts the functionality of their natural sonar capability might cause MAJOR problems,,, To the point where they might beach themselves, lose the ability to know how deep they are , possibly drown, run into one another... I dunno, the possibilities are pretty substantial...
NO correlation????... yeah, having a tough time with that concept.... bob
No correlation has been scientifically established, at least yet. It's unlikely that sonic mapping by the wind industry is doing something that years of similar and more intense activity related to offshore drilling failed to do. Stayed tuned...

[Blind Squirrel]

Don’t get me wrong, both sides skew science, data, etc. I’m not a fan of politicians. But what is the harm with shutting down the project for awhile to do more studies?. If a republican governor green lighted a fracking project and abnormally high wildlife deaths were occurring at the same time , would you be ok with the project continuing?
What is the harm with shutting down new offshore drilling projects for a while to do more studies? The harmful effects of sonar on marine life have been known for decades.

[bulletbob]

What is the harm with shutting down new offshore drilling projects for a while to do more studies? The harmful effects of sonar on marine life have been known for decades.

yeah, tell that to the locals and the charter captains that enjoy some of the most spectacular fishing in the world around those horrible oil platforms in the Gulf... They are loaded with marine life... As will the offshore wind farms one day I suppose...

[AndrewT]

The harmful effects of sonar on marine life have been known for decades.

So then just state you’re ok with whales dying at high numbers for the sake of wind farms.

If this was a oil project instead of wind and the same thing was happening, I would absolutely want it shut down while looking for solutions.

[Blind Squirrel]

yeah, tell that to the locals and the charter captains that enjoy some of the most spectacular fishing in the world around those horrible oil platforms in the Gulf... They are loaded with marine life... As will the offshore wind farms one day I suppose...
Neither industry's existing platforms require new mapping, and they're not credibly linked to the recent NY/NJ whale deaths.

[Blind Squirrel]

So then just state you’re ok with whales dying at high numbers for the sake of wind farms.

If this was a oil project instead of wind and the same thing was happening, I would absolutely want it shut down while looking for solutions.
I didn't say I'm ok with whales dying in high numbers for any reason.

[NoLimit]

Average whale death until the sonar started was 1 whale every 3 years
In the last month the amount of whales that died would have been 24 years worth .
So you would think with an increase of approx 300 percent more whales dying should start to be asked hard questions

Is this too much for coincidence - the govt passing a speed limit law and blaming recreational boats for dead whales. Did they foresee this happening and needed a scape goat?

[bulletbob]

Is this too much for coincidence - the govt passing a speed limit law and blaming recreational boats for dead whales. Did they foresee this happening and needed a scape goat?

Perfectly valid and probable observation.
However many of our friends and neighbors think the government doesn't lie, doesn't threaten or coerce its citizens, and wants what best for the country.

I think the ""speeding boats are killing whales, and we need it to stop"" nonsense could very well have been a preemptive strike for the media to run with... We elected the very people that are oppressing us.... bob

[Blind Squirrel]

Perfectly valid and probable observation.
However many of our friends and neighbors think the government doesn't lie, doesn't threaten or coerce its citizens, and wants what best for the country.

I think the ""speeding boats are killing whales, and we need it to stop"" nonsense could very well have been a preemptive strike for the media to run with... We elected the very people that are oppressing us.... bob
I think ""speeding boats are killing whales, and we need it to stop"" is an expression of concern that speeding boats are/were killing whales, but there could very well be other takes on it (https://zapatopi.net/afdb/).

[Blind Squirrel]

Perfectly valid and probable observation.
However many of our friends and neighbors think the government doesn't lie, doesn't threaten or coerce its citizens, and wants what best for the country.

I think the ""speeding boats are killing whales, and we need it to stop"" nonsense could very well have been a preemptive strike for the media to run with... We elected the very people that are oppressing us.... bob
8th dead whale to wash up around N.J. likely killed by a vessel, preliminary exam shows (https://www.nj.com/news/2023/02/8th-dead-whale-to-wash-up-around-nj-likely-killed-by-a-vessel-preliminary-exam-shows.html)

[tautog]

Yup, nothing to do with all the sonar testing, just an unprecedented amount of boat strikes during a period of decreased boat traffic. Makes perfect sense. Just ignore all that research about naval sonar and whale injuries over the last 30 years.

[hammer4reel]

8th dead whale to wash up around N.J. likely killed by a vessel, preliminary exam shows (https://www.nj.com/news/2023/02/8th-dead-whale-to-wash-up-around-nj-likely-killed-by-a-vessel-preliminary-exam-shows.html)

You been on the ocean the last few months ?
I have been every weekend , it’s a ghost town out there.
Very little ship traffic , let alone boat traffic .
But they will play that card because there are hundreds of billions of dollars riding on this project .
And it’s the worst thing we could ever allow off our coastline .
Every pilot project has failed miserably , yet they want to think a project 100 times larger will work better .
.

[Blind Squirrel]

You been on the ocean the last few months ?
I have been every weekend , it’s a ghost town out there.
Very little ship traffic , let alone boat traffic .
But they will play that card because there are hundreds of billions of dollars riding on this project .
And it’s the worst thing we could ever allow off our coastline .
Every pilot project has failed miserably , yet they want to think a project 100 times larger will work better .
.
Maybe the dead whale was a crisis actor? :eek:

[Blind Squirrel]

Yup, nothing to do with all the sonar testing, just an unprecedented amount of boat strikes during a period of decreased boat traffic. Makes perfect sense. Just ignore all that research about naval sonar and whale injuries over the last 30 years.

"Just ignore all that research about naval sonar and whale injuries over the last 30 years" and blame it on wind turbine projects started in the last couple of years. :confused:

[Blind Squirrel]

Every pilot project has failed miserably , yet they want to think a project 100 times larger will work better .
.

Profiling the top five countries with the highest wind energy capacity
From offshore China to onshore Spain, wind power capacity is growing rapidly around the world as the clean energy transition accelerates
https://www.nsenergybusiness.com/features/top-countries-wind-energy-capacity/

[hammer4reel]

Profiling the top five countries with the highest wind energy capacity
From offshore China to onshore Spain, wind power capacity is growing rapidly around the world as the clean energy transition accelerates
https://www.nsenergybusiness.com/features/top-countries-wind-energy-capacity/

Research it a little more . Half the companies are showing billion dollar loses .
Pilot projects here in the US didn’t last 5 years .


They also don’t produce electricity over 10 knots , and go into free spin , just creating wear and tear on the equipment .

Only thing green about them is the money that’s being stolen .

HUGE difference in on shore VS offshore applications .


.

[AndrewT]

Guys, you’re not going to change Blind Faith’s, I mean Blind Sheep’s, sorry * Blind Squirrel’s* mind no matter how much sense you make

[Blind Squirrel]

Research it a little more . Half the companies are showing billion dollar loses .
Pilot projects here in the US didn’t last 5 years .
They also don’t produce electricity over 10 knots , and go into free spin , just creating wear and tear on the equipment .
Only thing green about them is the money that’s being stolen .
HUGE difference in on shore VS offshore applications .
.
Single-industry startup companies that show billion-dollar losses don't stay in business very long, and the wind turbine industry's here to stay. There's nothing green about deadly heat waves and droughts, massive year-'round wildfires, more frequent tornadoes, inland & coastal flooding, warming oceans, more powerful hurricanes, and most other consequences of human-induced climate change, but disappearing ice cover does lead to new plant growth at a cost.
No technology starts out perfect, but green energy from more than one source is already very effectively addressing our worsening climate crisis in nations worldwide...
11 COUNTRIES LEADING THE CHARGE ON RENEWABLE ENERGY (https://www.climatecouncil.org.au/11-countries-leading-the-charge-on-renewable-energy/)

[Blind Squirrel]

Guys, you’re not going to change Blind Faith’s, I mean Blind Sheep’s, sorry * Blind Squirrel’s* mind no matter how much sense you make
"Even a Blind Squirrel finds a nut once in a while," but it's unreasonable to expect us to find imaginary ones. :)

[hammer4reel]

Single-industry startup companies that show billion-dollar losses don't stay in business very long, and the wind turbine industry's here to stay. There's nothing green about deadly heat waves and droughts, massive year-'round wildfires, more frequent tornadoes, inland & coastal flooding, warming oceans, more powerful hurricanes, and most other consequences of human-induced climate change, but disappearing ice cover does lead to new plant growth at a cost.
No technology starts out perfect, but green energy from more than one source is already very effectively addressing our climate crisis in nations worldwide...
11 COUNTRIES LEADING THE CHARGE ON RENEWABLE ENERGY (https://www.climatecouncil.org.au/11-countries-leading-the-charge-on-renewable-energy/)

Do you also understand how bad the effects of solar energy is ?
They no longer can put them in existing farm use fields as they have done for the last 2 decades .
The amount if radiation that comes off the panels into the soil makes those fields unusable for food for a 100 years .
That run off is just as bad as burying chemical barrels there that eventually get into the entire ground water system .
They now have to cut down mature woods to make solar fields . Without the trees the air quality goes to shit .
All these supposed green energy prospects have serious downfalls.. .

.

[Blind Squirrel]

Do you also understand how bad the effects of solar energy is ?
.
Do you also understand how bad the effects of human-caused global climate change are? I wasn't around when the first horseless carriages hit the dirt roads, but I hear there were few to no gas stations, mechanics, or other supporting infrastructure.
NASA's first trips into space didn't all go perfectly either...
How Do We Know Climate Change Is Real?
There is unequivocal evidence that Earth is warming at an unprecedented rate. Human activity is the principal cause.
https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

[hammer4reel]

Do you also understand how bad the effects of human-caused global climate change are? I wasn't around when the first horseless carriages hit the dirt roads, but I hear there were few to no gas stations, mechanics, or other supporting infrastructure.
NASA's first trips into space didn't all go perfectly either...
How Do We Know Climate Change Is Real?
There is unequivocal evidence that Earth is warming at an unprecedented rate. Human activity is the principal cause.
https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

All those things don’t make the new green stuff better .

And as far as all this electric generation goes . I don’t need to read articles .

I have built it in every phase and style .

We have built billions of dollars of CUP , generation stations, cogens, solar fields etc .
Solar and offshore wind are two of the worst .

.

[Exit135]

What does this topic have to do with saltwater fishing in New Jersey?

[frugalfisherman]

I've got the solution. Whale blubber fueled generators.

[hammer4reel]

What does this topic have to do with saltwater fishing in New Jersey?


There is a ton of info how this is all going to affect our fishery here , in huge ways .
A little research you will see how drastic it will be

[bulletbob]

What does this topic have to do with saltwater fishing in New Jersey?

an awful lot...
1- the windmills will be in NJ IN the ocean where everyone here goes fishing

2- There seem to be HORRIBLE environmental consequences already.. Whales turning up dead constantly .. in NJ saltwater, where everyone here goes fishing.

3- Its a reasonable discourse on the environmental impact to the fishery in NJ saltwater.. where everyone here goes fishing...

I was one that was all for those huge towers going up, and felt[still do] that a few years down the road, they would nurture spectacular fishing never seen before in NJ, for not only bottom species, but for pelagics/sharks etc..

Like what the anglers in the Gulf experience around the oil rigs..

My opinion was based around the structure of the towers once installed of course, and the massive influx of life any large structure in the ocean typically provides... Right now, I am kind of in the middle.. I see exactly why the opponents of the wind farms are concerned about.. I have the same concerns and feel that the echo soundings ARE killing those whales.. No doubt in my mind... Also who knows whats happening to the sea life on bottom, that doesn't wash up on beaches.. Might be utter destruction down there for all we know... Still, once up, I feel those towers will provide spectacular fishing, IF anglers have proper access.. Lately, I am not sure what to think, but for now, just surveying is killing a lot of marine life.... bob

[hammer4reel]

an awful lot...
1- the windmills will be in NJ IN the ocean where everyone here goes fishing

2- There seem to be HORRIBLE environmental consequences already.. Whales turning up dead constantly .. in NJ saltwater, where everyone here goes fishing.

3- Its a reasonable discourse on the environmental impact to the fishery in NJ saltwater.. where everyone here goes fishing...

I was one that was all for those huge towers going up, and felt[still do] that a few years down the road, they would nurture spectacular fishing never seen before in NJ, for not only bottom species, but for pelagics/sharks etc..

Like what the anglers in the Gulf experience around the oil rigs..

My opinion was based around the structure of the towers once installed of course, and the massive influx of life any large structure in the ocean typically provides... Right now, I am kind of in the middle.. I see exactly why the opponents of the wind farms are concerned about.. I have the same concerns and feel that the echo soundings ARE killing those whales.. No doubt in my mind... Also who knows whats happening to the sea life on bottom, that doesn't wash up on beaches.. Might be utter destruction down there for all we know... Still, once up, I feel those towers will provide spectacular fishing, IF anglers have proper access.. Lately, I am not sure what to think, but for now, just surveying is killing a lot of marine life.... bob

Some species will thrive on the structure .

More than likely will put the last nail in the coffin for fluke.
Fish close to the bottom have been found to entirely avoid the areas of the transmission lines .

Being its Nj , we may not ever be allowed to fish them .
During construction they have set a 5 year secure zone .
The extra distance to go around these fields to head out to mid shore and off shore grounds look to be a PIA .
But worst part is They are going in what currently are the best fishing areas we have .
.

[Capt Sal]

If a "radical environmentalist agenda" even exists, it most likely doesn't include dead whales and other destroyed sea life, regardless of whatever cause or causes are assigned to the recent whale deaths by Big Oil & Tucker Carlson. Most environmental groups are supportive of scientific investigation, not profit-driven industry gaslighting, and have found no evidence that offshore wind turbine surveying & construction are nearly as harmful to marine life as similar activities related to offshore drilling. Let's give rationality a chance, not have another "Jewish space laser" moment while global climate change continues to make our planet increasingly less habitable.

Your post should be taken down. Thank God we don't have more like you.

[Blind Squirrel]

All those things don’t make the new green stuff better .
And as far as all this electric generation goes . I don’t need to read articles .
I have built it in every phase and style .
We have built billions of dollars of CUP , generation stations, cogens, solar fields etc .
Solar and offshore wind are two of the worst .
.
I've built chemistry labs & executive suites for pharmaceutical companies in PA & NJ, and came no closer to being a research chemist by building the chem labs than I did by providing offices & conference rooms for execs. Reciting and exaggerating the negatives in green energy production without sufficient context does not present a clear picture of what we're doing to our planet and the relative merits of various efforts to slow or stop it. Reading objective scientific literature would undoubtedly help.

[Blind Squirrel]

Your post should be taken down. Thank God we don't have more like you.
Thanks for sharing, Capt Sal. That was really fact-filled... :rolleyes:

[bulletbob]

Some species will thrive on the structure .

More than likely will put the last nail in the coffin for fluke.
Fish close to the bottom have been found to entirely avoid the areas of the transmission lines .

Being its Nj , we may not ever be allowed to fish them .
During construction they have set a 5 year secure zone .
The extra distance to go around these fields to head out to mid shore and off shore grounds look to be a PIA .
But worst part is They are going in what currently are the best fishing areas we have .
.

I am not well versed enough to dispute, or agree with your claims.. I base my opinion on what has happened up at Block Island thus far... Fishing for bottom fish has been really good up there close to the towers.. They catch fluke there as well, not sure how close they get to the actual transmission lines.. Still an awful lot of unknowns.. A LOT depends on how much access is allowed.. If none, then its nothing short of tragic for NY Bight fishermen.. i guess we'll find out soon enough.... bob

[reelfitter]

Research what it costs to build one of these wind turbines! The cost far exceeds the return. They're find that out now. They're a total GREEN joke.

[Gumada]

Offshore wind turbines are only profitable as long as the subsidies last. That’s a proven fact ! Once the subsidies run out they will be abandoned and left to rust and fall into the sea where they will become an ecological disaster and require tax payer funding to clean up (superfund sites). In the mean time, while they research and plot where and how they will be built they will kill untold amounts of marine creatures. The wind industry has permits from NOAA to kill up to 400 marine mammals during the projects on the east coast. That tells anyone with common sense that they KNOW they will be killing marine mammals and so does the government. It’s all a money grab, right out of our pockets.

NOAA declared an unusual mortality event for marine mammals in 2016 along the east coast which is ongoing. Guess what year they started the offshore wind projects.....

[Duffman]

. Fishing for bottom fish has been really good up there close to the towers..

How do you know this?

[bulletbob]

How do you know this?

Mostly reading reports online, watching videos etc... Unless the guys catching the fish and posting the videos were lying for some reason.. However, they did get real close to the structures, and were catching a lot of fish.. Several videos online and on youtube, and some info in archived reports from the area.. I am NOT a first hand eyewitness, but everyone on this forum believes the reports and videos posted here without being an eyewitness.. I don't see why anyone would report falsely, plus they were right close to those giant yellow supports, and showed themselves getting ever closer to the windmills on the way out... bob

[Blind Squirrel]

Research what it costs to build one of these wind turbines! The cost far exceeds the return. They're find that out now. They're a total GREEN joke.
Research the ROI of one of those wind turbines! Government tax credits for new construction expire after 10 years, while fossil fuel subsidies continue indefinitely.

[bulletbob]

One of the vids is by John Skinner who is well regarded here... Fishing looked pretty damn good to me, Lots of fluke mixed in with the Porgies, Sea Bass and Blues.... Like I said, I don't know what to think.. Half of me thinks it a horrible thing, but the other side knows what happens when this sort of structure is introduced into the marine environment... In a few years, they will teem with life... At this point, its going to happen , and I for one hope its a boon to sport fishing, and not a disaster... Time will tell.... bob

[blindalfred]

Your post should be taken down. Thank God we don't have more like you.

There is, at least, one more like him. More facts, actual examples, rather than speculation would be helpful. shresearchdude is a voice of sanity on this board. Actual citations rather than opinions.

[Gumada]

Here you go...


The total subsidy burden on the consumer will only fall as the 20 year support duration ends for individual sites and they cease to be subsidised. There are six live offshore wind farm sites subsidised via Contracts for Difference as at the end of 2020.



https://www.ref.org.uk/ref-blog/370-offshore-wind-subsidies-per-mwh-generated-continue-to-rise

[Blind Squirrel]

Offshore wind turbines are only profitable as long as the subsidies last. That’s a proven fact ! Once the subsidies run out they will be abandoned and left to rust and fall into the sea where they will become an ecological disaster and require tax payer funding to clean up (superfund sites). In the mean time, while they research and plot where and how they will be built they will kill untold amounts of marine creatures. The wind industry has permits from NOAA to kill up to 400 marine mammals during the projects on the east coast. That tells anyone with common sense that they KNOW they will be killing marine mammals and so does the government. It’s all a money grab, right out of our pockets.

NOAA declared an unusual mortality event for marine mammals in 2016 along the east coast which is ongoing. Guess what year they started the offshore wind projects.....
Offshore wind turbines are profitable as long as they continue to generate electricity, and have an estimated working lifespan of 25 to 35 years before some of their moving parts need to be replaced. Their support structure is similar to an offshore drilling platform's, and marine life thrives around them indefinitely.
Please provide more information on the NOAA 2016 declaration you referenced. They seem to be well aware of any possible harm to marine life that might result from the installation & operation of offshore wind turbines...
Offshore Wind Energy: Protecting Marine Life (https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/topic/offshore-wind-energy/protecting-marine-life)

[Ol Pedro]

Research the ROI of one of those wind turbines! Government tax credits for new construction expire after 10 years, while fossil fuel subsidies continue indefinitely.

B.S.,on year 11 they will shut them down or lobby for more free money. If there is no profit then there is no green energy.
Why build them if they can't generate all the time when the winds blowing? (design flaw?) What about all the bird life that will be clubbed out of the sky?
Why not put them on land? If they are so important then why not put them where they can be maintained easily? Wouldn't it be cheaper to build? I guess that people don't think they are pretty so put them out of sight.(not in my back yard)
We have electric cars that catch fire that we can't put out, windmill farms that kill wildlife, and toxic solar farms. Why build more if we don't find solutions for the existing problems?
I don't think that green energy is so green. I'm just an old man ranting on a cold winter day.

[Blind Squirrel]

B.S.,on year 11 they will shut them down or lobby for more free money. If there is no profit then there is no green energy.
Why build them if they can't generate all the time when the winds blowing? (design flaw?) What about all the bird life that will be clubbed out of the sky?
Why not put them on land? If they are so important then why not put them where they can be maintained easily? Wouldn't it be cheaper to build? I guess that people don't think they are pretty so put them out of sight.(not in my back yard)
We have electric cars that catch fire that we can't put out, windmill farms that kill wildlife, and toxic solar farms. Why build more if we don't find solutions for the existing problems?
I don't think that green energy is so green. I'm just an old man ranting on a cold winter day.
If there's no profit, then there's no any kind of large-scale energy production. There's generally more wind in offshore locations, which have fewer other uses and less commercial value than land-based sites.
Wind turbines obviously don't generate electricity when the wind's not blowing, and that's hardly an argument against installing them. You're essentially saying that anything less than a perfect replacement or addition to dirtier forms of energy production is unnecessary.
I don't think fossil fuels are so green either. I'm (probably) just an older man than you ranting on a cold winter day, my friend. :p

[blindalfred]

Here you go...


The total subsidy burden on the consumer will only fall as the 20 year support duration ends for individual sites and they cease to be subsidised. There are six live offshore wind farm sites subsidised via Contracts for Difference as at the end of 2020.



https://www.ref.org.uk/ref-blog/370-offshore-wind-subsidies-per-mwh-generated-continue-to-rise

Funded by Calor. The company was formed in 1935, and is one of the UK's largest suppliers of liquefied petroleum gas (LPG). It is currently servicing around 4 million homes and businesses, supplying LPG to power gas appliances from central heating and hot water, as well as cookers, fires and barbecues. Follow the money.

[Duffman]

Mostly reading reports online, watching videos etc...

Point made

[Ol Pedro]

If there's no profit, then there's no any kind of large-scale energy production. There's generally more wind in offshore locations, which have fewer other uses and less commercial value than land-based sites.
Wind turbines obviously don't generate electricity when the wind's not blowing, and that's hardly an argument against installing them. You're essentially saying that anything less than a perfect replacement or addition to dirtier forms of energy production is unnecessary.
I don't think fossil fuels are so green either. I'm (probably) just an older man than you ranting on a cold winter day, my friend. :p

B.S., Were you born before 1955? Lesser of 2 evils just as evil? What about natural gas or hydroelectric? Can the turbines generate power at over 10 kt winds? Still old and cold my friend.

[2na]

Why are we so divided here? Both sides think they're smarter or more moral than the other. The simple truth is, you don't have to look hard to find "proof" to argue either side of this debate. "Scientists" and authors from both sides of the fence can distribute (or keep silent) whatever bias propaganda they want to establish their point. It's embarrassing society has become so gullible...

SHORTS

[bulletbob]

Point made

Like I said, do you think everyone in the videos lies??. Not sure thats a great line of thought.. I mean there ARE motion pictures of the live fishing at those towers, and it IS very good fishing... Unless of course you think they are faking the videos for some strange reason... I don't think those towers should be put up out there personally... however, to think that they aren't going to hold a lot of fish is not realistic.. They will be loaded with life in a few years after construction,, Thats just a fact, doesn't matter what anyone thinks about the towers, pro or con... They will have a lot of life around them.. It remains to be seen if NY/NJ anglers will be allowed to access it however... You can be against the towers but still acknowledge they may provide good fishing... bob

[Ol Pedro]

Why are we so divided here? Both sides think they're smarter or more moral than the other. The simple truth is, you don't have to look hard to find "proof" to argue either side of this debate. "Scientists" and authors from both sides of the fence can distribute (or keep silent) whatever bias propaganda they want to establish their point. It's embarrassing society has become so gullible...

SHORTS

Your right Shorts. I'll just go put the marinade on a tuna loin and keep my thoughts to myself.

[Blind Squirrel]

B.S., Were you born before 1955? Lesser of 2 evils just as evil? What about natural gas or hydroelectric? Can the turbines generate power at over 10 kt winds? Still old and cold my friend.
I was born in 1943, which I'm pretty sure was before 1955. What about natural gas or hydroelectric? Gas is a non-renewable pollutant, and hydroelectric works great when climate change hasn't dried up the water supply (Drought, Climate Change Threaten the Future of U.S. Hydropower).
Wind turbines add green energy to power grids from a wind speed of 6-9 mph to a wind speed of ~55 mph, and their systems store the power when output exceeds demand.
Stay warm, my young friend. :)

[hammer4reel]

I was born in 1943, which I'm pretty sure was before 1955. What about natural gas or hydroelectric? Gas is a non-renewable pollutant, and hydroelectric works great when climate change hasn't dried up the water supply (Drought, Climate Change Threaten the Future of U.S. Hydropower).
Wind turbines add green energy to power grids from a wind speed of 6-9 mph to a wind speed of ~55 mph, and their systems store the power when output exceeds demand.
Stay warm, my young friend. :)

You’re reading articles that try and make this energy sound more efficient than it is .
The wind turbine electricity starts to stack at 10 knots . MOST current transmission lines won’t allow the electricity to flow correctly above that .
Our current grids dont have the capacity or the upgrades needed to store the power . So they are pretty much an in use supplier .
All the current projects here in the US haven’t made it 5 years let alone 25 years .

It’s not only the sources of power that need to get better , it’s the grid itself .
All the rebuilds were just that . Rebuild for what’s needed today , not enough of what’s needed in the future .
.
While it all seems good on paper , real life it hasn’t been even close to being perfected .
. And while they throw out numbers of mega watts created etc it’s not even close to what’s being used here daily .
.

[tautog]

"Just ignore all that research about naval sonar and whale injuries over the last 30 years" and blame it on wind turbine projects started in the last couple of years. :confused:

Well the whales are dying where the survey boats are using similar sonar to the sonar that was proven to cause serious problems to whales and dolphins through decades of peer reviewed research. Yet we are told, without any peer reviewed research, that this sonar is perfectly fine for marine mammals. Since there has been no noticeable increase in boat traffic in the NY Bight and fairly stable whale populations, what would explain the astronomical increase in whale deaths over the last 6 weeks. Either an incredibly unlucky streak for whales or sonar testing. Barring any evidence otherwise, Occam's Razor would indicate that one cause is exponentially more likely than a massive increase in boat strikes which would require many more elements to go wrong.

[Gumada]

Offshore wind turbines are profitable as long as they continue to generate electricity, and have an estimated working lifespan of 25 to 35 years before some of their moving parts need to be replaced. Their support structure is similar to an offshore drilling platform's, and marine life thrives around them indefinitely.
Please provide more information on the NOAA 2016 declaration you referenced. They seem to be well aware of any possible harm to marine life that might result from the installation & operation of offshore wind turbines...
Offshore Wind Energy: Protecting Marine Life (https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/topic/offshore-wind-energy/protecting-marine-life)

Go on NOAAs site and search UME, there have been plenty of whales killed to pause wind projects until it’s found what is causing this UME. btw that life span is for land based turbines. What happens when they are exposed to saltwater ?

How Long Do Wind Turbines Last?
There is very little data on modern turbines reaching their life expectancy so it is largely unknown how long they will be operable. Modern wind turbines have over 8,000 parts (broken down into three major components) and blades as long as 262 feet, the same length as the wingspan of an Airbus [2]. With higher efficiency modern turbines due to additional electronic components and a more powerful and massive design, there is a higher chance of something going wrong with more potential points of failure and overall added stress and load on the structure.

Warning signs from the UK…

In 2017 alone, more than 1000 cetaceans (whales, porpoises, dolphins) washed up dead or dying on beaches around the UK.
It was an unprecedented number.
‘Baffled’ scientists pondered on the reason for this catastrophic mortality event, and theories for the demise of these magnificent creatures ranged from Royal Navy sonar noise to ship strike and plastic pollution, all of which may contribute to whale deaths - but none of which alone could satisfactorily explain the huge increase in numbers.
For many environmentalists like myself, (though not the ones caught up in the green dream machine), it seemed that there might be an obvious correlation between the rapid proliferation of wind farm construction around the British coast and the whale strandings. One that at least needed to be explored and debated. But in spite of the fact that we already know there is a link between manmade ocean noise and disorientating deafness in whales, the wind industry’s public relations machine quickly quashed rumours that they were to blame - and the UK public bought into the deceit.

AND THE SUBSIDIES NEED TO CONTINUE TO RISE TO KEEP THEM PROFITABLE.

https://www.ref.org.uk/ref-blog/370-offshore-wind-subsidies-per-mwh-generated-continue-to-rise

[Pennsy Guy]

Why are we so divided here? Both sides think they're smarter or more moral than the other. The simple truth is, you don't have to look hard to find "proof" to argue either side of this debate. "Scientists" and authors from both sides of the fence can distribute (or keep silent) whatever bias propaganda they want to establish their point. It's embarrassing society has become so gullible...

SHORTS

Yep, two sides to any problem. Just remember, no one alive in the world today need worry about the oceans boiling or the trees bursting into flame from global warming. Oh, and those wind mills will make great artificial reefs after one of our 3 day Nor'easters or cat 3-4 hurricanes puts them on the ocean floor.
Piss and moan, bitch and complain all you want BUT you're not going to stop them.
Enjoy life to the fullest; we're only here for the blink of an eye time-wise....
Oh, I'm 85 and just waiting for the Gambler's tuna schedule to post. I worry about the big stuff--how many trips going to be blown out. See you on the water...

[Blind Squirrel]

You’re reading articles that try and make this energy sound more efficient than it is .
The wind turbine electricity starts to stack at 10 knots . MOST current transmission lines won’t allow the electricity to flow correctly above that .
Our current grids dont have the capacity or the upgrades needed to store the power . So they are pretty much an in use supplier .
All the current projects here in the US haven’t made it 5 years let alone 25 years .

It’s not only the sources of power that need to get better , it’s the grid itself .
All the rebuilds were just that . Rebuild for what’s needed today , not enough of what’s needed in the future .
.
While it all seems good on paper , real life it hasn’t been even close to being perfected .
. And while they throw out numbers of mega watts created etc it’s not even close to what’s being used here daily .
.
Electricity either flows or it doesn't, and transmission lines are conductors. Generators work the same way regardless of what's driving them, and if our current grids have insufficient storage capacity, we add it. Wind is cheap, clean, & abundant, and has been used to generate electricity since the late-19th Century. It doesn't meet current demand, but is our largest source of renewable energy.
If you're reading articles that make wind power sound less efficient & practical than it is, they're most likely coming from the fossil fuel industry.
DOE Finds Record Production and Job Growth in U.S. Wind Power Sector August 16, 2022 (https://www.energy.gov/articles/doe-finds-record-production-and-job-growth-us-wind-power-sector)

[Blind Squirrel]

Go on NOAAs site and search UME, there have been plenty of whales killed to pause wind projects until it’s found what is causing this UME. btw that life span is for land based turbines. What happens when they are exposed to saltwater ?

How Long Do Wind Turbines Last?
There is very little data on modern turbines reaching their life expectancy so it is largely unknown how long they will be operable. Modern wind turbines have over 8,000 parts (broken down into three major components) and blades as long as 262 feet, the same length as the wingspan of an Airbus [2]. With higher efficiency modern turbines due to additional electronic components and a more powerful and massive design, there is a higher chance of something going wrong with more potential points of failure and overall added stress and load on the structure.

Warning signs from the UK…

In 2017 alone, more than 1000 cetaceans (whales, porpoises, dolphins) washed up dead or dying on beaches around the UK.
It was an unprecedented number.
‘Baffled’ scientists pondered on the reason for this catastrophic mortality event, and theories for the demise of these magnificent creatures ranged from Royal Navy sonar noise to ship strike and plastic pollution, all of which may contribute to whale deaths - but none of which alone could satisfactorily explain the huge increase in numbers.
For many environmentalists like myself, (though not the ones caught up in the green dream machine), it seemed that there might be an obvious correlation between the rapid proliferation of wind farm construction around the British coast and the whale strandings. One that at least needed to be explored and debated. But in spite of the fact that we already know there is a link between manmade ocean noise and disorientating deafness in whales, the wind industry’s public relations machine quickly quashed rumours that they were to blame - and the UK public bought into the deceit.
According to NOAA, the two biggest causes of UME are "undetermined" (49% of total) and biotoxins (18%), hardly a clear indictment of the wind turbine industry. Oddly enough, there's no hand-wringing from your British source (https://jasonendfield.medium.com/us-coastal-communities-push-back-against-windfarms-as-more-whales-are-found-dead-on-beaches-666718fa89a5) about the heavy toll that coal- and oil-powered electricity generation takes on wildlife, or what hi-rises, domestic cats, and window panes do to bird populations. We know what happens when offshore drilling platforms are exposed to saltwater, yet they're still being built and used. Oil spills are a clear environmental hazard, but I've yet to hear of a wind or solar spill that caused any problems.
I share your concern for our environment, my friend, and will keep a close eye on the related research.

[Blind Squirrel]

Well the whales are dying where the survey boats are using similar sonar to the sonar that was proven to cause serious problems to whales and dolphins through decades of peer reviewed research. Yet we are told, without any peer reviewed research, that this sonar is perfectly fine for marine mammals. Since there has been no noticeable increase in boat traffic in the NY Bight and fairly stable whale populations, what would explain the astronomical increase in whale deaths over the last 6 weeks. Either an incredibly unlucky streak for whales or sonar testing. Barring any evidence otherwise, Occam's Razor would indicate that one cause is exponentially more likely than a massive increase in boat strikes which would require many more elements to go wrong.
Who told you "that this sonar is perfectly fine for marine mammals"? Offshore wind turbines & sonar testing have been around for a lot longer than six weeks.

[2na]

Oh, I'm 85 and just waiting for the Gambler's tuna schedule to post. I worry about the big stuff--how many trips going to be blown out. See you on the water...[/QUOTE]


FINALLY...Something worth talking and/or worring about!!!

SHORTS

[capt74]

As long as you two save some space "NEXT TO THE DOOR" were all good. Totally agree with you, Chuck. Life is too short to worry about all the BS going on in the world today. As Capt. Bobby says " Were only here for a visit "

[tautog]

Who told you "that this sonar is perfectly fine for marine mammals"? Offshore wind turbines & sonar testing have been around for a lot longer than six weeks.

NOAA did actually

Is U.S. offshore wind development linked to any whale deaths?

No. At NOAA Fisheries, we work with our partners to analyze and understand the causes of death when we are able, following the science and data. At this point, there is no evidence to support speculation that noise resulting from wind development-related site characterization surveys could potentially cause mortality of whales

[Gumada]

According to NOAA, the two biggest causes of UME are "undetermined" (49% of total) and biotoxins (18%), hardly a clear indictment of the wind turbine industry. Oddly enough, there's no hand-wringing from your British source (https://jasonendfield.medium.com/us-coastal-communities-push-back-against-windfarms-as-more-whales-are-found-dead-on-beaches-666718fa89a5) about the heavy toll that coal- and oil-powered electricity generation takes on wildlife, or what hi-rises, domestic cats, and window panes do to bird populations. We know what happens when offshore drilling platforms are exposed to saltwater, yet they're still being built and used. Oil spills are a clear environmental hazard, but I've yet to hear of a wind or solar spill that caused any problems.
I share your concern for our environment, my friend, and will keep a close eye on the related research.



Obviously squirrel you have a preconceived notion that global climate change can be influenced by human behavior. You probably listen the news that are on board with the current narrative. That’s fine, I or you will not be alive when all this BS scam comes to a head. But I know when I’m being ����ed. This is one of those times. End of story get ur head out of your ....

[Blind Squirrel]

NOAA did actually

Is U.S. offshore wind development linked to any whale deaths?

No. At NOAA Fisheries, we work with our partners to analyze and understand the causes of death when we are able, following the science and data. At this point, there is no evidence to support speculation that noise resulting from wind development-related site characterization surveys could potentially cause mortality of whales
"At this point, there is no evidence..." =/= "...perfectly fine for marine mammals."

[Blind Squirrel]

Obviously squirrel you have a preconceived notion that global climate change can be influenced by human behavior. You probably listen the news that are on board with the current narrative. That’s fine, I or you will not be alive when all this BS scam comes to a head. But I know when I’m being ����ed. This is one of those times. End of story get ur head out of your ....
Denial isn't a river in Egypt... :(
How Do We Know Climate Change Is Real?
There is unequivocal evidence that Earth is warming at an unprecedented rate. Human activity is the principal cause.
https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/#:~:text=It%20is%20undeniable%20that%20human,cryos phere%2C%20and%20biosphere%20have%20occurred.
What Is the Evidence for Human-Caused Climate Change?
https://scienceexchange.caltech.edu/topics/sustainability/evidence-climate-change#:~:text=Carbon%20dioxide%20from%20human%20a ctivity,Warming%20ocean
The Basics of Climate Change
https://royalsociety.org/topics-policy/projects/climate-change-evidence-causes/basics-of-climate-change/

[capt74]

Squirrel, Have you hugged your trees lately?

[Blind Squirrel]

Squirrel, Have you hugged your trees lately?
Do you like breathing clean air, Cappy? :)
Why Are Trees Important to the Environment?
https://www.co2australia.com.au/why-are-trees-important-to-the-environment/

[bbfisherman]

Just remember the government that says sonar is not responsible for the whale deaths is the same government who carried out radioactive testing and psychotic drug testing on its own citizens. DDT was acceptable. Cancer causing chemicals are allowed in many products because of economic feasibility. Pharmaceutical drugs over the years approved then found dangerous. Politicians who run the government do they tell the truth? I prefer not to trust the government.

[Gumada]

Denial isn't a river in Egypt... :(
How Do We Know Climate Change Is Real?
There is unequivocal evidence that Earth is warming at an unprecedented rate. Human activity is the principal cause.
https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/#:~:text=It%20is%20undeniable%20that%20human,cryos phere%2C%20and%20biosphere%20have%20occurred.
What Is the Evidence for Human-Caused Climate Change?
https://scienceexchange.caltech.edu/topics/sustainability/evidence-climate-
change#:~:text=Carbon%20dioxide%20from%20human%20a ctivity,Warming%20ocean (https://scienceexchange.caltech.edu/topics/sustainability/evidence-climate-change#:~:text=Carbon%20dioxide%20from%20human%20a ctivity,Warming%20ocean)
The Basics of Climate Change
https://royalsociety.org/topics-policy/projects/climate-change-evidence-causes/basics-of-climate-change/


I’ve read most of these, however there are reports and ideas from scientists that don’t get grants, if you aren’t on board with the narrative you don’t get the money. Here are a few that think all this rush to change isn’t going to work and the reasons why. Including humans aren’t causing the change...

https://www.businessinsider.com/the-ten-most-important-climate-change-skeptics-2009-7


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1zrejG-WI3U

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KGn-6kGoD0c

[Blind Squirrel]

I’ve read most of these, however there are reports and ideas from scientists that don’t get grants, if you aren’t on board with the narrative you don’t get the money. Here are a few that think all this rush to change isn’t going to work and the reasons why. Including humans aren’t causing the change...
https://www.businessinsider.com/the-ten-most-important-climate-change-skeptics-2009-7
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1zrejG-WI3U
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KGn-6kGoD0c
There will always be some grandstanders & deniers, Gumpster, and as climate science progresses, they look more and more foolish. From your businessinsider.com article:
"Alan Carlin is an EPA economist who wrote a paper calling global warming a 'hoax.' It's not really important what he said or what he believed or even whether his argument makes any sense at all. What's important is that he's become a right-wing celebrity over the belief that he was censored by the EPA for being a heretic (hence getting to appear on Glenn Beck)"
Alan Carlin's an economist (& physicist), not a climate scientist, and the extent of Glenn Beck's post-secondary education is dropping out of one theology course. Ignoring overwhelming scientific evidence hardly qualifies either of them as a "skeptic." :(

[Blind Squirrel]

I’ve read most of these, however there are reports and ideas from scientists that don’t get grants, if you aren’t on board with the narrative you don’t get the money. Here are a few that think all this rush to change isn’t going to work and the reasons why. Including humans aren’t causing the change...
https://www.businessinsider.com/the-ten-most-important-climate-change-skeptics-2009-7
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1zrejG-WI3U
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KGn-6kGoD0c
I'd love to hear Glenn Beck and his "expert" try to spin this one, Gumpmeister. Stranded barges and repeated dredging are now a fact of life on major rivers worldwide...
Record low water levels on the Mississippi River in 2022 show how climate change is altering large rivers
Flash drought disrupted a vital transportation link, causing delays and raising costs for shippers, producers and consumers.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/record-low-water-levels-on-the-mississippi-river-in-2022-show-how-climate-change-is-altering-largerivers-11671654048

[Pennsy Guy]

Is it time to lock this thread? Looks like it's degenerated into shouting and finger pointing. Plus, I'm out of popcorn.

[shrimpman steve]

It’s good to know I can still stir the pot. :D

Lock it up Gerry.

[Gumada]

To the people that think they are in the right...follow the money..it will lead you to untruth...

[Blind Squirrel]

To the people that think they are in the right...follow the money..it will lead you to untruth...
Big Oil's good times set to roll on after record 2022 profits
https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/big-oils-good-times-set-roll-after-record-2022-profits-2023-01-17/
Global fossil fuel subsidies almost doubled in 2021, analysis finds
Support amid huge industry profits is a ‘roadblock’ to tackling climate crisis, says International Energy Agency
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/aug/31/fossil-fuel-subsidies-almost-doubled-in-2021-analysis-finds
Major Natural Disasters Cost U.S. $165 Billion Last Year—Here Are The Priciest Weather Events
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tylerroush/2023/01/10/major-natural-disasters-cost-us-165-billion-last-year-here-are-the-5-priciest-weather-events/?sh=2348e41e2f2f
No need to thank me... ;)