2018 Freshwater Fisheries Forums

[Dave B.]

For all the folks who had/have issues with the new regs that were just passed here's your chance to have your voices and opinions heard, not just by the Div but also by the folks who hold a differing opinion that may have had an effect on the recently adopted regs.

I attend these meetings every year and it's sad to say but I always see the same group of guys and gals there, many of whom hold to the principals that were forwarded by the recent reg changes.

From the 'other' side of the issues there are very few who attend and take the time to speak up. I know Andy attends the N. Jersey forum at Hackettestown every year, that's about the only time he and I get a chance to BS each year.

Get out there folks if you want to have your opinions heard and taken seriously by the folks who make the decision's that affect us all.

Here's the info...

Freshwater Fisheries Forums

Each year the Division of Fish and Wildlife's Bureau of Freshwater Fisheries holds three public forums to improve communication with the angling public and to solicit public input in shaping freshwater fisheries programs in the future. The forums are a perfect opportunity for all freshwater anglers to learn about existing programs and to share their views and recommendations.

Forum topics cover all aspects of freshwater management, including both warmwater and coldwater fisheries. Each year updates on specific management activities are provided, as well as open discussions on future management recommendations. Over the years various regulatory, management and stocking changes have resulted from suggestions from anglers attending the forums.

North Jersey Fisheries Forum - January 20, 2018 at 10am: Hackettstown State Fish Hatchery

South Jersey Fisheries Forum - February 24, 2018 at 10am: Batsto Village Visitor's Center

Trout Meeting - March 3, 2018 at 10am: Pequest Trout Hatchery

As always, there will be ample time for open discussion with professional staff to answer any questions or address concerns of anglers during the extended question and answer period.

Come be an integral part in the development of future programs and regulations related to New Jersey's freshwater fisheries resources.

[AndyS]

Maybe 15 people will show up like last year.

[NJSquatch]

I will be going this year...

[JDTuna]

Thanks, Dave. I will be there.

[Chrisper4694]

yeah now that we know a handful of elitist can project their will onto the entire NJ fishing community, we will have to start going to the meetings.

[Lard Almighty]

I want to contribute some additional info on the regulation changes, particularly the hot button issues of the barb/hook point restrictions and the private trout clubs fishing during the pre-opening day closure. I filed an OPRA request with the DEP and obtained many, if not all, of the public comments submitted to F&W regarding the fish code proposals. After reading through all ~160 comments I was provided, and evaluating which ones were relevant, I found the following:

Barbless Hook/3- Hook Point Restriction on C&R Trout Waters:
Comments In Favor: 71
Comments Opposed: 40

Private Clubs Fishing During Closed Season
Comments In Favor: 81
Comments Opposed: 12

*Note that "in favor" or "opposed" means the comment applied either to the proposed changes as a whole, or specifically to that issue.

[NJSquatch]

I want to contribute some additional info on the regulation changes, particularly the hot button issues of the barb/hook point restrictions and the private trout clubs fishing during the pre-opening day closure. I filed an OPRA request with the DEP and obtained many, if not all, of the public comments submitted to F&W regarding the fish code proposals. After reading through all ~160 comments I was provided, and evaluating which ones were relevant, I found the following:

Barbless Hook/3- Hook Point Restriction on C&R Trout Waters:
Comments In Favor: 71
Comments Opposed: 40

Private Clubs Fishing During Closed Season
Comments In Favor: 81
Comments Opposed: 12

*Note that "in favor" or "opposed" means the comment applied either to the proposed changes as a whole, or specifically to that issue.

Nice job Lard. 160 comments is really really sad considering there are over 120,000 resident fishing licenses and 80,000 trout stamps sold a year.

Lard how many comments were simply "I agree with all the proposed changes"?

[thmyorke1]

Private Clubs Fishing During Closed Season
Comments In Favor: 81
Comments Opposed: 12



81 club-members saying "hey yea I like that"

vs 12 people that took the time to call it out.

Honestly it's a shame more people don't leave comments. If just a fraction of NJ anglers took the time to read the changes and submit comments there wouldn't be a problem.

Clearly the majority of commenters are club-members. And obviously they are a tiny fraction of NJ anglers. Unfortunately whoever adapts the comments and proposals to actual rules doesn't realize that...

Additionally you could just look at this rule with common sense or an average level of comprehension to see that it's just a bunch of club-members getting their way. But people running our fishery seem to be lacking one of the two....

[Dave B.]

'Squatch and Tuna, glad to hear you'll be attending! I'll look forward to getting to meet you both. Hopefully a few more folks from here will make it as well!

As for the comments Lard was able to acquire, I can tell you that I was one of those opposed to the 'barbless' issue. As for the clubs being able to fish their own waters as C&R during the pre-season closure frankly I don't care either way. We are all able to do likewise on all of the TCA's, WTS's and Artificials Only waters. Some may argue that state fish will move into the private waters...ehh, so what? The nice big club fish will likewise move into public waters and be available for all anglers during the regular open season. They're fish, they swim. I've caught PLENTY of privately stocked fish in public stream sections on a lot of NJ waters over the years. Just off the top the Paulinskill, Musky, SBR, Flatbrook and Pohat come to mind.

Anyway I hope to see a bigger turnout at the forum this year. As Andy alluded to, last year was absolutely pitiful. The vast majority of attendees were affiliated with TU or private clubs. Then too there was the usual handful of outdoor writers.

Come out, listen to what our Freshwater Fisheries staff have to say and don't be hesitant to question them. They want to hear our input, ideas and concerns.

[thmyorke1]

As for the clubs being able to fish their own waters as C&R during the pre-season closure frankly I don't care either way. We are all able to do likewise on all of the TCA's, WTS's and Artificials Only waters. Some may argue that state fish will move into the private waters...ehh, so what? The nice big club fish will likewise move into public waters and be available for all anglers during the regular open season. They're fish, they swim. I've caught PLENTY of privately stocked fish in public stream sections on a lot of NJ waters over the years. Just off the top the Paulinskill, Musky, SBR, Flatbrook and Pohat come to mind.



I simply feel like it's a big exception against the rules that everyone follows just because they have the ability to make those rules.

Surely Im not affected either. I argued in previous threads that they probably already fish their clubs year-round, closure or not, because what game warden is going to stop by a club. Cant say Ive seen one anywhere.

The fact that the rule was passed was a showcase that the rule-making is pretty flawed, biased, giving exceptions to the groups that have a larger voice in the rule making and adapting process.

Surely clubs arent evil or anything, and hey I do agree it's nice that they stock fish themselves. But I dont agree that they should have any exceptions on the code every other NJ angler follows.

[NJSquatch]

As for the clubs being able to fish their own waters as C&R during the pre-season closure frankly I don't care either way. We are all able to do likewise on all of the TCA's, WTS's and Artificials Only waters. Some may argue that state fish will move into the private waters...ehh, so what? The nice big club fish will likewise move into public waters and be available for all anglers during the regular open season. They're fish, they swim. I've caught PLENTY of privately stocked fish in public stream sections on a lot of NJ waters over the years. Just off the top the Paulinskill, Musky, SBR, Flatbrook and Pohat come to mind.


Look forward to meeting you as well.

My issue with the private club exception is that it is contrary to F&W's mission statement and rewards an already privileged class of people.

Mission Statement (http://www.njfishandwildlife.com/mission.htm)
"The mission of the New Jersey Division of Fish and Wildlife is to protect and manage the State's fish and wildlife to maximize their long-term biological, recreational and economic values for all New Jerseyans."

If the club areas were open to all trout fisherman during the closed period like the TCA's than I would be all for it. Does anyone know how many private clubs there are and how many members are in each? Are we talking about a 100 or so people? Not sure about you guys but I don't think that qualifies as "all New Jerseyans."

[baetis]

The fact that the rule was passed was a showcase that the rule-making is pretty flawed, biased, giving exceptions to the groups that have a larger voice in the rule making and adapting process.

.

Private clubs and fly fisherman are a minority and do not have a larger voice. The problem is that people are lazy and/or ambivalent about the rules.

I say congratulations to them for stepping up. There will often be 40+ posts on this board congratulating someone for catching a nice fish, not including lurkers and people who don't post and yet only 12 people will take the time to write to F&G about a proposal that may affect them or they disagree with.

The way I see it, if you can get a core of 100 njfishing members together, you could have a good chance at changing/amending policy.

[thmyorke1]

Private clubs and fly fisherman are a minority and do not have a larger voice. The problem is that people are lazy and/or ambivalent about the rules.

I say congratulations to them for stepping up. There will often be 40+ posts on this board congratulating someone for catching a nice fish, not including lurkers and people who don't post and yet only 12 people will take the time to write to F&G about a proposal that may affect them or they disagree with.

The way I see it, if you can get a core of 100 njfishing members together, you could have a good chance at changing/amending policy.

100% agree

[Chrisper4694]

I want to contribute some additional info on the regulation changes, particularly the hot button issues of the barb/hook point restrictions and the private trout clubs fishing during the pre-opening day closure. I filed an OPRA request with the DEP and obtained many, if not all, of the public comments submitted to F&W regarding the fish code proposals. After reading through all ~160 comments I was provided, and evaluating which ones were relevant, I found the following:

Barbless Hook/3- Hook Point Restriction on C&R Trout Waters:
Comments In Favor: 71
Comments Opposed: 40

Private Clubs Fishing During Closed Season
Comments In Favor: 81
Comments Opposed: 12

*Note that "in favor" or "opposed" means the comment applied either to the proposed changes as a whole, or specifically to that issue.

i just want to quickly point out that the barbless and 3 point restrictions are NOT just for sections that are C&R. There are sections of river where you are allowed to keep restricted amounts of wild brown trout, etc.

so basically claiming it is all for the fishs' protection, when making the places where wild trout are thriving, all C&R only would make much more sense. On top of that, most of the best wild trout waters I know are totally unrestricted! 6 wild trout at 9" can be kept!!! those rules don't change, but now i have to modify my gear in the areas fly fishermen decide? yeah it's for the protection of the fish...

all lard's findings tell me is that there were 71 complete morons that commented!

[Dave B.]

Private clubs and fly fisherman are a minority and do not have a larger voice. The problem is that people are lazy and/or ambivalent about the rules.

I say congratulations to them for stepping up. There will often be 40+ posts on this board congratulating someone for catching a nice fish, not including lurkers and people who don't post and yet only 12 people will take the time to write to F&G about a proposal that may affect them or they disagree with.

The way I see it, if you can get a core of 100 njfishing members together, you could have a good chance at changing/amending policy.

Well said Baetis. Trying to get more folks from here to become involved in the process is a big factor in my original posting of this thread.

Bear in mind gents, since we are on a 2 year regs cycle right now is the time to begin working on any potential changes for the next cycle. The process is long and involved, and both the legal requirements the Div personal must follow as well as the internal review processes by both Freshwater Fisheries staff and in many cases the DEP legal team, not to mention the field work that must very often be done to support or refute any proposed changes, all of these things take a great deal of time. This long process was a driving force behind the Div going to the 2 year reg cycle in the first place.

Getting your/our views, ideas and opinions heard now provides the best chance for seeing results in the 2020 regs, but there has to be follow-through, not just a one-time meeting attendance.

One thing I would personally like to see happen is an issue someone posted in an earlier thread, that being the Council meetings being held on an evening or weekend to allow for more sportsmen/women to attend. The current practice of midday, mid-week meetings is certainly not conducive to allowing most of the angling and hunting public to participate in the process.

One other item, anyone who belongs to the NJ Federated Sportsmen whether through a club or as an individual, attending your county's monthly meetings can go far toward helping you stay informed of the goings on at F&W.

[NJSquatch]

Official Email Blast from F&W


Results of Round Valley Reservoir Fisheries Inventory and Hackettstown Hatchery Fish Production Top Agenda

Future of Skillful Angler Program To Be Discussed


The first of two freshwater fisheries forums in 2018 will be held Saturday, January 20, at the Hackettstown State Fish Hatchery. The forum begins at 10 a.m. and is the perfect opportunity to learn about current programs and to share views and recommendations.

There will be ample time for discussion with staff to answer questions or address concerns during the question and answer period. There is also time for one-on-one discussions with fisheries biologists following the meeting.

Pre-register (not required but appreciated) by calling 908-236-2118 or by e-mailing njfwfish@dep.nj.gov. Be sure to include name, address, phone number and the number of people attending.

Directions (http://www.njfishandwildlife.com/hackdir.htm)

[AndyS]

Chief Lisa Barno, Bureau of Freshwater Fisheries reported the Fish Code public comment period closed on December 1st. A public hearing was held on November 14th where one member of the public attended.

[Drossi]

I simply feel like it's a big exception against the rules that everyone follows just because they have the ability to make those rules.

Surely Im not affected either. I argued in previous threads that they probably already fish their clubs year-round, closure or not, because what game warden is going to stop by a club. Cant say Ive seen one anywhere.

The fact that the rule was passed was a showcase that the rule-making is pretty flawed, biased, giving exceptions to the groups that have a larger voice in the rule making and adapting process.

Surely clubs arent evil or anything, and hey I do agree it's nice that they stock fish themselves. But I dont agree that they should have any exceptions on the code every other NJ angler follows.

Who gives a rats azz that club members can fish club waters during the "closed" season. Geez the "closed" season is barely 3 weeks, not even 3 full weekends. Jealousy is cancer. Give up. Let go.

[thmyorke1]

Who gives a rats azz that club members can fish club waters during the "closed" season. Geez the "closed" season is barely 3 weeks, not even 3 full weekends. Jealousy is cancer. Give up. Let go.

As I stated I'm not bothered by the rule. I explained that previously in another comment. It does no real harm, doesn't affect me, and clubs probably still fish the closed season anyway.

I'm just not digging the fact that the official rules are throwing exceptions to a select group.

Continue with that mindset that this group gets a priority and eventually there will be rules that are downright problematic and unfair.

[NJSquatch]

As I stated I'm not bothered by the rule. I explained that previously in another comment. It does no real harm, doesn't affect me, and clubs probably still fish the closed season anyway.

I'm just not digging the fact that the official rules are throwing exceptions to a select group.

Continue with that mindset that this group gets a priority and eventually there will be rules that are downright problematic and unfair.

Well said!

[NJSquatch]

Chief Lisa Barno, Bureau of Freshwater Fisheries reported the Fish Code public comment period closed on December 1st. A public hearing was held on November 14th where one member of the public attended.

Held in south jersey!

[FASTEDDIE29]

Held in south jersey!

And on a Tuesday!!! Pretty convenient,,,,, for nobody!!! Haha!!!

[Chrisper4694]

yeah, south jersey on a tuesday morning, but you better go or a handful of guys are going to make new rules for everybody that not only don't make sense, but are contradictory to the state's own findings....

[Dave B.]

Held in south jersey!

Umm, for the record the Assunpink WMA is actually quite centrally located in N.J. I live in south Jersey, there's another 50 miles of state further south of me and it takes me a good hour to drive north to the Assunpink WMA. The office is almost dead center between the northern and southern reaches of the state as well as close to center on an east/west plane. Trust me, south Jersey it ain't.

[NJSquatch]

Umm, for the record the Assunpink WMA is actually quite centrally located in N.J. I live in south Jersey, there's another 50 miles of state further south of me and it takes me a good hour to drive north to the Assunpink WMA. The office is almost dead center between the northern and southern reaches of the state as well as close to center on an east/west plane. Trust me, south Jersey it ain't.

My point is that the proposed regs only affected Northern NJ

[Dave B.]

My point is that the proposed regs only affected Northern NJ

Ahh, point taken! See ya Sat!

[NJSquatch]

Aside from the Skillful Angler comments and the Brown Trout in RV does anyone have anything that they would like for me to ask F&W at tomorrow's meeting?

[Jigman13]

Walleye in spruce run!!! 😀😀😀

[Paul N Skill]

One thing I would personally like to see happen is an issue someone posted in an earlier thread, that being the Council meetings being held on an evening or weekend to allow for more sportsmen/women to attend. The current practice of midday, mid-week meetings is certainly not conducive to allowing most of the angling and hunting public to participate in the process.

One other item, anyone who belongs to the NJ Federated Sportsmen whether through a club or as an individual, attending your county's monthly meetings can go far toward helping you stay informed of the goings on at F&W.

Let me say up front that I supported the barbless hook rules

Changing the day and time of Council Meetings would not make a difference. Most of us just like to bitch but don't want to be involved in making our voices heard. I attended this morning's 2018 Freshwaters Fisheries Forum. All the folks from F&W involved with drafting the new regs were on site. Attendance was pitiful. Only one individual spoke out against the new barbless lure regs. Where were all the other sportsman/women that are opposed to the new regs. Why wasn't the place packed with those who oppose this. What's their excuse for not being able to attend a meeting on a Saturday morning.

[AndyS]

Last year the F&G people outnumbered the people who attended.

[thmyorke1]

Let me say up front that I supported the barbless hook rules

Changing the day and time of Council Meetings would not make a difference. Most of us just like to bitch but don't want to be involved in making our voices heard. I attended this morning's 2018 Freshwaters Fisheries Forum. All the folks from F&W involved with drafting the new regs were on site. Attendance was pitiful. Only one individual spoke out against the new barbless lure regs. Where were all the other sportsman/women that are opposed to the new regs. Why wasn't the place packed with those who oppose this. What's their excuse for not being able to attend a meeting on a Saturday morning.

Well Justin did a great job explaining it. There was no need to add in any other remarks from myself at least.

Unfortunately the response we got from f&w was-
basically there was no going back on the three year cycle regulations this late. And I don't blame them since there really should have been some voice agasint it much earlier in the process.

After the meeting one on one with the biologist they highly appreciated the new faces and the different opinions.

I'm glad I attended because it made me appreciate the department a lot more; they're doing their best trying to get more voices. I think they're tired of hearing from the same crowd that doesn't obviously doesn't represent the majority of NJ anglers.

[NJSquatch]

Echoing Luke's comments Justin spoke passionately and intelligently. There wasn't really much to add. Lisa shutdown any further conversation because it was a mute point until they look at the regs again in 3 years. She encouraged us to keep attending meetings to get our voice heard. Especially the trout meetings in March.

I spoke with Agust Gudmundsson, the F&W council member that represents the north, and he told me that he read ever comment submitted (less than 200 in total!) He indicated the gear restriction opposition was passionate and well informed but was severely outnumbered by people for the regulation. (He excluded comments that simply stated they were for all or none of the regulations)

Also No chance of moving the council times or locations due to OT issues with F&W staff.

I am glad I attended and plan to in the future. Seeing the 2 tanks of Atlantic salmon was worth the price of admission.

I counted over 50 people in attendance including the F&G staff.

[thmyorke1]

Echoing Luke's comments Justin spoke passionately and intelligently. There wasn't really much to add. Lisa shutdown any further conversation because it was a mute point until they look at the regs again in 3 years. She encouraged us to keep attending meetings to get our voice heard. Especially the trout meetings in March.

I spoke with Agust Gudmundsson, the F&W council member that represents the north, and he told me that he read ever comment submitted (less than 200 in total!) He indicated the gear restriction opposition was passionate and well informed but was severely outnumbered by people for the regulation. (He excluded comments that simply stated they were for all or none of the regulations)

Also No chance of moving the council times or locations due to OT issues with F&W staff.

I am glad I attended and plan to in the future. Seeing the 2 tanks of Atlantic salmon was worth the price of admission.

I counted over 50 people in attendance including the F&G staff.

Better explanation than me.

Also, I found the pike + musky tanks even more interesting... they just suspended their motionless... it was kind of freaky seeing all those sticks just sit there while the minnows just swam helplessly hoping the esox never got hungry again.

The salmon look great too. Feisty! Right when feed dropped they attacked it.

[akoop]

i just want to quickly point out that the barbless and 3 point restrictions are NOT just for sections that are C&R. There are sections of river where you are allowed to keep restricted amounts of wild brown trout, etc.

so basically claiming it is all for the fishs' protection, when making the places where wild trout are thriving, all C&R only would make much more sense. On top of that, most of the best wild trout waters I know are totally unrestricted! 6 wild trout at 9" can be kept!!! those rules don't change, but now i have to modify my gear in the areas fly fishermen decide? yeah it's for the protection of the fish...

all lard's findings tell me is that there were 71 complete morons that commented!

Is smashing down the barb enough to qualify as barbless or do I really need to purchase barbless hooks?

[thmyorke1]

Is smashing down the barb enough to qualify as barbless or do I really need to purchase barbless hooks?

At the meeting a simple crush down is good enough, said by Lisa herself.

[Chrisper4694]

At the meeting a simple crush down is good enough, said by Lisa herself.

you ever try to crush down the little tiny barbs on those small lures...huge pita. going to have to buy special pliers to save the frustration.

[thmyorke1]

you ever try to crush down the little tiny barbs on those small lures...huge pita. going to have to buy special pliers to save the frustration.

Yea for small barbs it's hard. I got needle nose pliers from Cabelas. From my experience you want to just press down on the tip if the barb, not the whole thing.

[NJSquatch]

Snapped a pic of this display at the forum that really showcases the need to practice catch and release. Those 5 pounders are over 10 years old!

https://s10.postimg.org/4d0e2igm1/IMG_0033.jpg

[Mikey topaz]

Snapped a pic of this display at the forum that really showcases the need to practice catch and release. Those 5 pounders are over 10 years old!

https://s10.postimg.org/4d0e2igm1/IMG_0033.jpg

Always loved that all those big trout especially the ones in front of peaquest let's hold them and make pets outta them and show people what they can dream of catching lollll!!! How bout you stock them fish and make some happy angler's..... And looking at this new stuff what's the deal if I take front treble hooks off a plug??? Is it legal then????

[thmyorke1]

Always loved that all those big trout especially the ones in front of peaquest let's hold them and make pets outta them and show people what they can dream of catching lollll!!! How bout you stock them fish and make some happy angler's..... And looking at this new stuff what's the deal if I take front treble hooks off a plug??? Is it legal then????

Yes but the remaining treble hook in the back must be barbless too. Crushing the barbs with pliers is sufficient to be legal.

These are only necessary for wild trout streams and Catch and Release areas (which are now classified into three categories, Native brook trout, Wild trout, and Brown Trout Enhancement) Check the Digest for what waters these apply to.

Trout Conservation Areas dont seem to be affected by the new gear restriction though.

[Wilson]

Yes but the remaining treble hook in the back must be barbless too. Crushing the barbs with pliers is sufficient to be legal.

These are only necessary for wild trout streams and Catch and Release areas (which are now classified into three categories, Native brook trout, Wild trout, and Brown Trout Enhancement) Check the Digest for what waters these apply to.

Trout Conservation Areas dont seem to be affected by the new gear restriction though.

Yet:rolleyes:

[Drossi]

No issues with pinching down the barbs, been doing it for 30 years. I feel like I get better hook sets without the barb, it makes release easier, and most important it makes it easier to get said hook out of my finger or thumb when I am (often) a klutz. :)

[Chrisper4694]

Yet:rolleyes:

oh i would love to see them try to pass more bs regulations...i want to see how many anglers i can get to sign a trout stamp boycott petition :p

[Chrisper4694]

No issues with pinching down the barbs, been doing it for 30 years. I feel like I get better hook sets without the barb, it makes release easier, and most important it makes it easier to get said hook out of my finger or thumb when I am (often) a klutz. :)

the barbs on trout lures are so small they don't do crap one way or another...not the point though.

what people are not getting here is that gear regulations took priority over c&r regulations...in other words, they claim they are putting these regulations in place to protect the trout, but all the places these restrictions effect are not catch and release except for the klg and belwitt (those are the only two c&r)

so instead of making all the great wild brown trout waters c&r, they restrict our gear...and we let them, and apparently many anglers are too naive to do the math

I just thought of something else...maybe a bunch of us should go and start complaining about a minimum hook size restriction. those tiny fly hooks are just way too small and too easily engulfed into the trouts' throats :mad: if we complain enough, they will pass it, that's how they operate.

[Mikey topaz]

[QUOTE=Chrisper4694;501559]oh i would love to see them try to pass more bs regulations...i want to see how many anglers i can get to sign a trout stamp boycott :D

[thmyorke1]

Chris from what I understand they don't want you using such gear when there's brook trout around. Because now brook trout are virtually all catch and release

Essentially if the water didn't have brook trout they'd let you use barbs and two trebles. That's why they let you take rainbows or browns but not brookies.

[Drossi]

I just thought of something else...maybe a bunch of us should go and start complaining about a minimum hook size restriction. those tiny fly hooks are just way too small and too easily engulfed into the trouts' throats .

Why you hating on my small flies???? Oh wait I can't see anything smaller than a 16 so I guess I don't use small flies.

I'll debate you on the barbs on small trout spinners, I have the thumb scars to validate. :)

Really I'm ambivalent to the gear restrictions. I don't fish the waters that most of them cover. The ones that I do, I rarely see anyone else fishing them no matter what tackle they employ. YMMV. But my standards are far from standard. :eek:

[thmyorke1]

Why you hating on my small flies???? Oh wait I can't see anything smaller than a 16 so I guess I don't use small flies.

I'll debate you on the barbs on small trout spinners, I have the thumb scars to validate. :)

Really I'm ambivalent to the gear restrictions. I don't fish the waters that most of them cover. The ones that I do, I rarely see anyone else fishing them no matter what tackle they employ. YMMV. But my standards are far from standard. :eek:

Myself I'm not affected by the gear restrictions either. But I still don't like unnecessary gear restrictions.

Banning bait is acceptable and logical.

Banning a few more hooks which inhibits some people's preferences on fishing however is debatable.

I wouldn't join any petition telling people how they can't fish; it's why I'm disappointed in the first place.

Bottom line is that any form of fishing is not going to be 100% unharmful. Heck you can ban just looking at the fish since you could argue "you're spooking them and making them stressed!"

Obviously it's a balance between what anglers want and what is best for the fish.

I think this new gear restriction is too far on the side of the fish and too illogically away from the anglers' side.

That's personally my thoughts and maybe I could convince you, since I get the feeling you're neutral about the topic.

[Drossi]

since I get the feeling you're neutral about the topic.

I am ambivalent about it. It doesn't really effect me cause I choose to fish a certain way (fly) out of preference not due to some snotty assed elite mentality. I spent a lot of years spin fishing with bait :eek: I was good at it. My dad was really good at it. Spinning gear doesn't bother me, I'll break it out when the situation warrants I was never a big lure guy though which is ironic since I am a big streamer user, which is a cousin of the lure.

[thmyorke1]

I am ambivalent about it. It doesn't really effect me cause I choose to fish a certain way (fly) out of preference not due to some snotty assed elite mentality. I spent a lot of years spin fishing with bait :eek: I was good at it. My dad was really good at it. Spinning gear doesn't bother me, I'll break it out when the situation warrants I was never a big lure guy though which is ironic since I am a big streamer user, which is a cousin of the lure.

Good to hear. Always nice to see anglers that prefer fly that also don't outright trash spinning practices.

Anyways thanks for listening to our side.

[Drossi]

Good to hear. Always nice to see anglers that prefer fly that also don't outright trash spinning practices.

Anyways thanks for listening to our side.

Could care less what their tackle of choice is. I prefer people that are fisherman and good people. If you're a jerk, the type of gear doesn't make you less or more of a jerk. Same if your cool.