NJF&G hypocritical trout regulations...

[Chrisper4694]

I've had enough of this...we need to plaster the internet, clubs and local bait shops with this.

I've always stood behind the NJ fish and game, praising their stocking efforts making NJ one of the best places to be an angler, based not on the size of the fish, but the vast variety of species and fisheries.

That being said, if these new trout regulations pass, i'm done backing them. We all buy the same trout stamp and this crap is getting out of control.

They took a step in the right direction when they got rid of the 'fly fishing only' sections of rivers and now they're taking a step backwards and if you think this is where it's going to stop you're living in a dream world.

Here's a link to the 2017 njf&g digest where they published an article dismissing the false claims about the dangers of barbs and treble hooks to fish vs. barbless and single hooks, with scientific studies sited!

http://www.njfishandwildlife.com/pdf/2017/digfsh8-15.pdf scroll down to page 12

Now a year later they claim the opposite and want to 'nickle and dime' us with ridiculous regulations? sounds to me like special interest minority groups (fly fishing elitists) have their hand up someone's ass like a puppeteer.

I wonder how many big wild trout have died by fully engulfing and swallowing a tiny little fly and then being played to death on an extra long noodle pole just so some clown can pretend he's better than everyone else.

How about a regulation making a short 5-10 minute video and 10 question test on fish handling mandatory before purchasing a fishing license. That'd be an example of a regulation that would actually make sense if they really cared about the wild trout fishery!

All of us, out there much more frequently than these guys, catching countless more trout, are just as much conservationists as them if not more so; these new proposed regulations are based on NOTHING (proven by their own article from a year ago siting scientific studies) except maybe the special interest needs of a minority.

I'd make this post sticky and spread the word because this is another slippery slope situation. What's next? fly fishing only waters all over the place again? more expensive trout stamps to pay for wardens guarding these sections from real anglers? maybe trolling bans on certain reservoirs? who knows...don't let NJF&G hypocrites open this door!

[thmyorke1]

The proposed change for info: "Barbless Hooks and No More than Three Hook Points in Total proposed
for Catch and Release Areas and Wild Trout Streams
Due to continued angler interest in limiting hook points and barbs when
targeting wild trout and to reduce the potential for injury to fish which will be continually caught and released it is proposed to allow only barbless hooks and no more than
three hook points in total when fishing the state's two designated Catch and Release Only areas
for trout and designated Wild Trout Streams."

Barbless hooks aren't that bad
However I'm uncertain about no more than 3 hook points. When using a plug, you have the option of using single hooks or taking off one of the trebels. I've done the latter, barbless, with smallies and had success. But I can't say the same with trout. However I figure it does end up with less hookups.

Whether it's more harmful or not, I find regulating it in the first place is BS.

What determines a fish's mortality is mostly weighted upon the skill of the angler. A bad angler following the safest regulations can still end up doing more harm than a good angler using any amount of hooks and barbs.

There seems to be a lot of problems with the fish code this year

[JDTuna]

A few select portions of the article written by NJ Fish and Game:

"Overall, requiring the use of barbless hooks is not beneficial to trout populations and can reduce angler catch rates. In the end, with the lack of strong scientific support, the best option may be to let anglers continue to decide for themselves.

A majority of scientific
studies on trout, a species intolerant of any level of mishandling, have shown that mortality from either barbed or barbless hooks is not significantly different (Mongillo 1984; Schill and Scarpella 1997; Dubois and Dubielzig 2004; Dubois and Pleski
2007.)* This suggests there is scant biological basis for restricting barbed hooks.

*The data is based on two major scientific papers which reviewed multiple studies; Taylor and White (1992, review of 18 hooking studies); and a review by Mongillo (1984). Both concluded that the number of hooks did not show a statistically significant
relationship to hooking mortality. Mongillo (1984) concluded that little justification exists for gear restrictions for artificials and data even indicates that the practice of using single hooks on lures may actually cause higher mortality than treble hooks."

This is not a conservation or biological issue. In fact, some research shows barbed hooks and trebles result in less mortality than single, barbless hooks. This is about a special interest group attempting to shoehorn in regulations based on their own misconceptions regarding spin fishing, and attempting to limit another user group. Regulations are meant to conserve, sustain and enhance the resource...NOT to placate a particular user group. The reasoning behind these changes are not why gear restrictions should be implemented. These regulations are unnecessary, unfair and should be removed. Leave it at artificial and fly in those areas.

[jaybird]

Honestly ask NJ Angler on this site he has fished those wild trout streams for many yrs and id be interested in his opinion . Id agree alot more has to do with how its handled than how many hooks , and everyone can be guilty of that , right?? Not all wild trout streams are created equal , so maybe these hook regs are more to protect 5in brookies not 12in browns

[JDTuna]

Honestly ask NJ Angler on this site he has fished those wild trout streams for many yrs and id be interested in his opinion . Id agree alot more has to do with how its handled than how many hooks , and everyone can be guilty of that , right?? Not all wild trout streams are created equal , so maybe these hook regs are more to protect 5in brookies not 12in browns

I trout fish often and I can tell you unequivically that larger lures with trebles are better for these fish than small flies which can be easily swallowed and gut/gill hook fish. Larger lures are almost never swallowed and 99% result in a shallow, superficial hookset that they usually shake in the net.

As far as brookies go, I never catch them on larger lures. Ever. If i switch to a small presentation, I will catch them but never on the larger lures I use to target browns.

Just read the quotes from the article. Unnecessary regulation.

[Paul N Skill]

I hope everyone is letting F&G know how they feel. December 1 is the deadline to receive responses from the public on changes to the Fish Code. Also I would refrain for attacking the "elitist fly fisherman". It does nothing to promote your case and alienates someone such as myself who prefers that method of fishing. Excuse the pun but there are bigger fish to fry. The governor elect may try to replace retiring members of the F&G Council with folks who are not fisherman friendly. We already know he is anti-hunting. As sportsman we need to stand together to protect our sport.

[jaybird]

Unequivocally is a strong word to back up , Ive never seen a small fly gut hook a trout or get caught in its gills , Im sure it has happend,the Jets once won a superbowl too....its extremly rare . 1z5977834251567654

[JDTuna]

Unequivocally is a strong word to back up , Ive never seen a small fly gut hook a trout or get caught in its gills , Im sure it has happend,the Jets once won a superbowl too....its extremly rare . 1z5977834251567654

Of course its a strong word...thats why I used it. Im basing that off roughly 350-400 trout that I've caught in the prior year. But you don't need to take my word for it. If you read the article written by a biologist from NJFWS referened above, that was the conclusion reached by their scientific literature review.

Jets winning the superbowl was is a one time thing thus far. I have used nymphs for trout, and yes I have seen several take them deep. Not that uncommon, especially with tiny nymphs.

[baetis]

I don't like the new proposal that no brook trout be stocked at all in half the state. I wish F&G would get their act together and start with the brown and brook trout production.

[FASTEDDIE29]

It sounds like the "TU guys and FLY FISHING CLUBS"are trying to weed the spin fishermen out in every way possible! They're the groups that constantly attend the meetings with there gripes about this and that! I'm totally against this stupid rule obviously. I throw plugs all year round and catch Trout all year long. Have I ever had a Trout die from devouring a plug??? NOPE!!! Sounds like the boys and girls at "NJF&G" are being influenced by an outside entity! I will be the first one to break this rule if it passes, ohhhhhhhhh, and I'll make sure I do it in all the private fly fishing only stretches!!! I call bullshit!!!

When do Trout die from being caught? I'll tell ya when! When they're caught dead sticking Power-bait, worms, etc, etc. They also die when they come up and inhale a micro fly during certain hatches that occur during the course of the year! There's more ways they perish than what I've stated! This is just nonsense! Totally aggravated right now!!!!:mad:

[NJSquatch]

pardon the pun but there is something FiSHY with some of these proposed regulations and this process

1. F&G is proposing regulations that they themselves have concluded there is little scientific evidence to support. :confused:

2.The digest article references a 2016 online survey for which I can't find the results. They state percentage of respondents. Is this based on 100 people or 10,000? :eek:

3. There is a provision that allows private fishing clubs to fish publicly stocked rivers on their private club property when the season is closed for the rest of us. :mad:

4.The public meeting location (Assunpink WMA) for these proposed regulations was held no where near the area of the state they are going to affect. http://www.njfishing.com/forums/images/icons/icon13.gif

I appreciate the fishing diversity and opportunities that F&G give to NJ anglers but this has my spidey senses going nuts. I can't help but speculate that some of this is a hidden agenda from a well connected group.

Submit your comments to F&G.
http://www.nj.gov/dep/rules/comments/

Proposed Regulations
http://www.njfishandwildlife.com/news/2017/fishcode_proposal18.htm

[AndyS]

I think there was just an open comment public hearing on the 2018 fish code.

True, the people that attend meetings in force are TU groups and the like.

Best bet is start by going to your local county Federated Sportsmens meeting.
A lot of the ideas go to these people first before even becoming a thought.

ALL TU meetings are open to the public, just about every county has one.

Every spring F&G has a meeting open to the public so you can voice your opinion, last year at least 20 people went, very sad.

[AndyS]

hyp·o·crit·i·cal

/ˌhipəˈkridək(ə)l
adjective
adjective: hypocritical
behaving in a way that suggests one has higher standards or more noble beliefs than is the case.

How far do you want to go down the rabbit hole ??

It is my understanding that the State stocks some lakes with trout AND Muskellunge.

Trout Unlimited has TIC (Trout in the Classroom) where students raise trout and learn the importance of clean cold running water. The State stocks scum hole duck ponds.

Ken Lockwood Gorge a "no kill" stretch of water receives the same amount of trout as any other waters, just wrong.

8 years of zero returns on Sea Run Brown Trout, the program was supposed to be halted, never stopped them to continue past practices.

I could go on and on...................

[Chrisper4694]

The facts are all clear as day and every single angler that isnt a full time, narrow minded, fly fisherman should be very worried about where this is going.

[Mikey topaz]

Hahaha I think Eddie's last few sentences we're pretty spot on. In the spring when they are caught with powerbait and worms etc. Myself I fly fish just about all winter long in these artificial only stretches and I can say in the years past they used to be good very rare u would see a spinning guy in the fly stretches..... I remember some days I wanted to cover alot of water quick or running short on time I would use my spinning rod guys fly fishing at the gorge and peaquest mostly would actually give me shit walking by me harassing me about fishing with a spinning rod and plugs so if I had to guess I would say the same someone kissing someone s azz.... U gotta remember too Shannon's throws bubba in and just about every year bubba's caught on a spinning rod that's gotta piss the flys guys off haha not that I care,but same thing with the trout they stock..... Ps fish and game has needed to get their shit together for awhile now!!! U wanna save some trout how bout stop stocking these stupid scummy duck ponds with trout!

[Chrisper4694]

Hahaha I think Eddie's last few sentences we're pretty spot on. In the spring when they are caught with powerbait and worms etc. Myself I fly fish just about all winter long in these artificial only stretches and I can say in the years past they used to be good very rare u would see a spinning guy in the fly stretches..... I remember some days I wanted to cover alot of water quick or running short on time I would use my spinning rod guys fly fishing at the gorge and peaquest mostly would actually give me shit walking by me harassing me about fishing with a spinning rod and plugs so if I had to guess I would say the same someone kissing someone s azz.... U gotta remember too Shannon's throws bubba in and just about every year bubba's caught on a spinning rod that's gotta piss the flys guys off haha not that I care,but same thing with the trout they stock..... Ps fish and game has needed to get their shit together for awhile now!!! U wanna save some trout how bout stop stocking these stupid scummy duck ponds with trout!

exactly...i don't have anything against fly fishing. I do it occasionally too. The point is that there is no where else this could have been started!

How does a minority like this get these kind of regulations on the table and at this point most likely passed!!!

That's the scary part! it's not even the actual regulations, that are contradictory to their own published scientific article from just last year; it's the fact that this is coming from a few privileged fly fishing elitists....and every single angler here, whether you fish for trout or not, should be very worried about THAT FACT!

click the link: http://www.nj.gov/dep/rules/comments/

let them know how disgusted you are, because i can promise you we drastically outnumber the few that want these regulations and we can make them regret even trying this!

[thmyorke1]

Just like with the regulation involving spring-stocked waters to be opened for private clubs, I have submitted my opposition to the rule.

I wasnt able to go to that meeting November 14th. How did that meeting go?

[Super]

It’s somewhat disturbing to me how much misinformation is here. Perhaps you should speak directly with the biologists. They’re always happy to come out to your club meetings.

[thmyorke1]

It’s somewhat disturbing to me how much misinformation is here. Perhaps you should speak directly with the biologists. They’re always happy to come out to your club meetings.

Misinformation in the proposed rules or in the thread? Sorry to ask but can you please clarify.

Otherwise, if you think some of the opinions posted in the thread are wrong, argue against them here.

[JDTuna]

It’s somewhat disturbing to me how much misinformation is here. Perhaps you should speak directly with the biologists. They’re always happy to come out to your club meetings.

Please specify. Btw, I did speak directly with the biologists. They echoed the same information that was concluded from the article, which was based on a literature review of the scientific studies researching hook mortality in trout. That consensus was the following:

"Overall, requiring the use of barbless hooks is not beneficial to trout populations and can reduce angler catch rates."

"The data is based on two major scientific papers which reviewed multiple studies; Taylor and White (1992, review of 18 hooking studies); and a review by Mongillo (1984). Both concluded that the number of hooks did not show a statistically significant relationship to hooking mortality. Mongillo (1984) concluded that little justification exists for gear restrictions for artificials and data even indicates that the practice of using single hooks on lures may actually cause higher mortality than treble hooks."

There is the science. The biologist I spoke with said the impetus for the reg changes was based on a survey, and an attempt to simplify the regs. Not science or sustainability of the fishery. Opinions of anglers who completed a survey that many were not even aware existed. Fisheries management should be based on the needs of the fish populations, with the goal of sustainability. Creating regulations that are based on the misconceptions of whoever took the survey (I highly doubt it was representative of all NJ anglers) is wrong, and is against the principles of proper management. I know this because I worked as a fisheries biologist tasked with management.

So please specify...what misinformation?

[Chrisper4694]

Just like with the regulation involving spring-stocked waters to be opened for private clubs, I have submitted my opposition to the rule.

I wasnt able to go to that meeting November 14th. How did that meeting go?

apparently this meeting was held in south jersey...far away from the trout waters and anglers that the regulations will effect...hmmm keeps stinking more and more...

And lets think about this survey...anyone here get to take a trout survey? I was asked to take warm water and saltwater surveys...never saw a trout survey...anyone else?

[Paul N Skill]

[QUOTE=Chrisper4694;498032]apparently this meeting was held in south jersey...far away from the trout waters and anglers that the regulations will effect...hmmm keeps stinking more and more...

The F&G council always meets monthly at their Central Region office in Robbinsville which is the same place as where the November 14 hearing took place. To suggest something underhanded occurred is stretching it in my opinion.

I agree that the proposed regs are contradictory in what we have been lead to believe about barbless lures. And strongly object to the "private waters" exemption. And I told F&W that by submitting comments online which you can still do until Dec 1. Also the F&W council holds their monthly meeting on December 12 in Robbinsville where they take public comments that are published in the minutes.

[NJSquatch]

Looks like the Council will reviewing our comments and be voting to adopt these proposed rules at the 12/12 meeting. Get those comments in!

From Page 5 of the 10/17 minutes (http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/pdf/2017/minutes/fgc10-17-17.pdf)

Chief Lisa Barno, Bureau of Freshwater Fisheries reported the Fish Code went out for comment on October 2nd and have received 20 comments so far. At least 17 of them had to do with drinking water rules because the drinking water rules and the Fish Code rules docket numbers were one digit off. The public hearing is scheduled for November 14th at 7:00 pm at the Assunpink Office conference room and on December 12th, public comments will be reviewed and a vote to adopt the Fish Code will take place.

I would be interested in reading the minutes for the 11/14 meeting but don't think they will be published before the 12/1 deadline.

http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/cnclminutes.htm

-

[NJSquatch]

The F&G council always meets monthly at their Central Region office in Robbinsville which is the same place as where the November 14 hearing took place. To suggest something underhanded occurred is stretching it in my opinion.

The Council meeting was at 1pm... the public meeting on the proposed regulations was at 7pm.....

If they truly were interested in engaging the fishing community you would think that the public meeting would have been held somewhere within the Northwestern part of the state which is going to affected by these rules.

Council Meeting Schedule
http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/fgcnclmtg.htm

Public Meeting Announcement
http://www.njfishandwildlife.com/news/2017/fishcode_proposal18.htm

[EJS]

Everyone has a the right to speak their mind and voice their opinion, thank god for the United States of America and those who defend her!

For those who don't know me, I am a conservationist, a TU member, and a NJWCC member. I volunteer well over 100 hours a year to multiple efforts from stream clean ups & restoration to trout stocking.

Yes, I give up time fishing to pull cars, tires, wood burning stoves, TV's, hot water heaters... out of a river, because I want to have cleaner streams and better fishing! I give up days on the river to go stock Trout so that others can enjoy a day on the water. So that the next generation understands a good day of fishing is better than any day in the office!

I've been fishing with crushed or filed barbs for 10 years. I can honestly say I see no difference in the ratio of fish landed vs lost, but I do see less tissue damage with barbless hooks, w/ obvious less damage when using single hook vs treble hook.

Everyone here wants a better fishery, they want to be able to fish and catch year round, but some want to make no sacrifices(time, effort or money) for that happen! Very Interesting

[JDTuna]

Everyone here wants a better fishery, they want to be able to fish and catch year round, but some want to make no sacrifices(time, effort or money) for that happen! Very Interesting

First and foremost, thank you for your dedication to keeping NJ waters clean.

The point here is that the proposed gear restricts (barbless hooks and three hook points per lure) are in direct contrast with the best available scientific data. The data shows that the mortality rates with barbed hooks/trebles are not significantly different than barbless/singles. Some studies suggest barbless singles can be worse because they penetrate deeper and can be swallowed/gut hook fish. Fishery regulations need to be based on the best available science and whats best for fish populations, not the misinformed opinions of a particular group of anglers. These regulations are contrary to the science, and should not be adopted.

[Chrisper4694]

Everyone has a the right to speak their mind and voice their opinion, thank god for the United States of America and those who defend her!

For those who don't know me, I am a conservationist, a TU member, and a NJWCC member. I volunteer well over 100 hours a year to multiple efforts from stream clean ups & restoration to trout stocking.

Yes, I give up time fishing to pull cars, tires, wood burning stoves, TV's, hot water heaters... out of a river, because I want to have cleaner streams and better fishing! I give up days on the river to go stock Trout so that others can enjoy a day on the water. So that the next generation understands a good day of fishing is better than any day in the office!

I've been fishing with crushed or filed barbs for 10 years. I can honestly say I see no difference in the ratio of fish landed vs lost, but I do see less tissue damage with barbless hooks, w/ obvious less damage when using single hook vs treble hook.

Everyone here wants a better fishery, they want to be able to fish and catch year round, but some want to make no sacrifices(time, effort or money) for that happen! Very Interesting

Well you personally see one thing and i personally see the opposite...njf&g digest agrees with me with a science backed article.

[Chrisper4694]

Just a reminder to all the real anglers, get your comments in by the end of THIS MONTH.

http://www.nj.gov/dep/rules/comments/

Even if you don't trout fish, know that letting them do this is a dangerous precedence; let them know it's not OK!

They are trying to pass regulations based on the opinions of a small community of fly fishermen, contradictory to their own scientific findings.

[acabtp]

reminder: get your comments submitted by this Friday, 12/1 or they will not be considered

There is still time to submit comment on proposed amendments to the 2018-2019 Fish Code. The Fish and Game Council and NJDEP Division of Fish and Wildlife are proposing important changes to trout regulations as well as to general fishing regulations. For information on the proposed changes, a link to the full proposal and how to submit written comment visit http://www.njfishandwildlife.com/news/2017/fishcode_proposal18.htm on the Division's website. Comments may be submitted electronically or in hard copy by December 1.

[Chrisper4694]

reminder: get your comments submitted by this Friday, 12/1 or they will not be considered

I hope everyone is submitting their disgust with these proposed regulations. Spread the word, there is still time. Dont let this door get opened! Regulations passed based on the opinions of special interest groups and contradictory to scientific findings is a dangerous precedence for all of us, not just trout anglers!

http://www.nj.gov/dep/rules/comments/

[BT67]

There is whole thread on another site about this issue. A few negative comments about the gang here at NJ fishing were there, which is totally without merit. I have very seldom have ever heard about guys eating fish from this site, even though it is their state licensed right to do so, but to say that we are "hook em and cook em" types is way off base.

[FASTEDDIE29]

There is whole thread on another site about this issue. A few negative comments about the gang here at NJ fishing were there, which is totally without merit. I have very seldom have ever heard about guys eating fish from this site, even though it is their state licensed right to do so, but to say that we are "hook em and cook em" types is way off base.

Hahahahaha!!! Really? I know there’s been a few issues in the past with these other sites! I think they’re just jealous! Feel free to PM me what site so I can login and have some fun on a Friday night. LOL!!😬

[FASTEDDIE29]

Ahhhhhhhh!!!!! Lol!!!!

Gardenstatetrout.com sucks anyway! Pansies!!!

[NJSquatch]

I still question how rusty spinner aka Brian cowden has information on the fact that there has been very little positive feedback on the proposed regs. Stinky stinky.

It is nice to see some of those board members call out the treble hook and private club rules as bs.

The funny thing is that it is the most active thread on that message board. How does the saying go. If people are talking about it you are doing something right. Hahahaha.

https://s7.postimg.org/ethfza13v/IMG_0011.png

[FASTEDDIE29]

I still question how rusty spinner aka Brian cowden has information on the fact that there has been very little positive feedback on the proposed regs. Stinky stinky.

It is nice to see some of those board members call out the treble hook and private club rules as bs.

The funny thing is that it is the most active thread on that message board. How does the saying go. If people are talking about it you are doing something right. Hahahaha.

https://s7.postimg.org/ethfza13v/IMG_0011.png

Hahahahaha!!! Exactly Squatch!!!👍👍👍

[thmyorke1]

"TU members have done a very poor job at commenting in support..."

When you have to address your fellow community into supporting something you want...

Hey maybe it's because they don't think the rule is supportable?

[JDTuna]

There is whole thread on another site about this issue. A few negative comments about the gang here at NJ fishing were there, which is totally without merit. I have very seldom have ever heard about guys eating fish from this site, even though it is their state licensed right to do so, but to say that we are "hook em and cook em" types is way off base.

PM me the site please

[NJSquatch]

PM me the site please

Highest active thread on their elitist forum

http://gardenstatetrout.com/forum/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=1&sid=65fb3e6511d9615ed8eab04da39d5fc8

[NJSquatch]

Anyone going to the council meeting next Tuesday where they are going to vote on the proposed regs?

There are a couple of public comment periods on the agenda.

See the agenda
http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/fgcnclmtg.htm

[Paul N Skill]

Anyone going to the council meeting next Tuesday where they are going to vote on the proposed regs?

There are a couple of public comment periods on the agenda.

See the agenda
http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/fgcnclmtg.htm

Can't make it myself . Let us know how you make out.

[EJS]

First and foremost, thank you for your dedication to keeping NJ waters clean.

The point here is that the proposed gear restricts (barbless hooks and three hook points per lure) are in direct contrast with the best available scientific data. The data shows that the mortality rates with barbed hooks/trebles are not significantly different than barbless/singles. Some studies suggest barbless singles can be worse because they penetrate deeper and can be swallowed/gut hook fish. Fishery regulations need to be based on the best available science and whats best for fish populations, not the misinformed opinions of a particular group of anglers. These regulations are contrary to the science, and should not be adopted.

"Scientific studies" are easily skewed and misunderstood, depending on which side of the fence you find yourself standing!

http://www.akleg.gov/basis/get_documents.asp?session=28&docid=1945

Mortality rates of even low percentages have lasting affects that multiply for years.

I think people are looking at this from a "You are taking away my rights, you're a bully" vs. "We all want a better fishery and maybe this is a way to have it". If we had a fishery that was Montana, Wyoming, Oregon, or Colorado class, I think we would all be as happy as a fat kid in a Burger King!

Now how do we get that fishery? We obviously can't continue with the same methodology and expect different results, the definition to stupidity. How we get that fishery in NJ is by using responsible wildlife management, everyone has stewardship in the resource.

[thmyorke1]

"Scientific studies" are easily skewed and misunderstood, depending on which side of the fence you find yourself standing!

http://www.akleg.gov/basis/get_documents.asp?session=28&docid=1945

Mortality rates of even low percentages have lasting affects that multiply for years.

I think people are looking at this from a "You are taking away my rights, you're a bully" vs. "We all want a better fishery and maybe this is a way to have it". If we had a fishery that was Montana, Wyoming, Oregon, or Colorado class, I think we would all be as happy as a fat kid in a Burger King!

Now how do we get that fishery? We obviously can't continue with the same methodology and expect different results, the definition to stupidity. How we get that fishery in NJ is by using responsible wildlife management, everyone has stewardship in the resource.

Something I'd like to say is that the slight increase in mortality with a single barbless hook compared to a pair of barbed trebles isn't worth taking away the rights from anglers that prefer using plugs.

There are MANY ways that NJ can help its fishery. I find it kind of strange how this rule is a priority despite other problems that cause much more of a problem to the fishery.

I'm not the one to start listing those problems. But I am one to acknowledge that this regulation is a weak and conflicting compared to the other solutions NJ can take if they truely want a better fishery.

[Chrisper4694]

Something I'd like to say is that the slight increase in mortality with a single barbless hook compared to a pair of barbed trebles isn't worth taking away the rights from anglers that prefer using plugs.

There are MANY ways that NJ can help its fishery. I find it kind of strange how this rule is a priority despite other problems that cause much more of a problem to the fishery.

I'm not the one to start listing those problems. But I am one to acknowledge that this regulation is a weak and conflicting compared to the other solutions NJ can take if they truely want a better fishery.

I can tell everyone from personal experience that the trout populations are doing GREAT and if treble and barbed hooks damaged the populations that wouldn't be the case. between myself and just the few people i know that trout fish with regular lures hundreds and hundreds of trout have been caught over the past two years and this year is better than last year!

If this truly was about the trout protection, guess what... ALL the wild trout areas would be catch and release ONLY, but they are not!

This is a sneaky step back towards 'fly fishing only' sections of public rivers that we all buy the same license and stamp to fish

[JDTuna]

"Scientific studies" are easily skewed and misunderstood, depending on which side of the fence you find yourself standing!

http://www.akleg.gov/basis/get_documents.asp?session=28&docid=1945

Mortality rates of even low percentages have lasting affects that multiply for years.

I think people are looking at this from a "You are taking away my rights, you're a bully" vs. "We all want a better fishery and maybe this is a way to have it". If we had a fishery that was Montana, Wyoming, Oregon, or Colorado class, I think we would all be as happy as a fat kid in a Burger King!

Now how do we get that fishery? We obviously can't continue with the same methodology and expect different results, the definition to stupidity. How we get that fishery in NJ is by using responsible wildlife management, everyone has stewardship in the resource.

If you believe the results of peer reviewed scientific studies can be skewed in this case, you are wrong and you don't understand peer reviewed science. The literature review done by NJFWS had clear results. And this decision is going against the best available science.

You also are kidding yourself if you believe NJ has the potential to have trout fisheries like Montana/Oregon/Wyoming. That has to do with habitat, water temps over the year, etc. In fact, that assertion is so ludicrous it is laughable. Try to compare a creek like the Musky to any of those rivers. It is not large enough to support numbers of fish like the western rivers.

For what we have, we have great wild trout fisheries and there is no evidence that there is any need for additional restrictions. By their own admission, these regulations are "political," and came from a survey. And they arent about conservation. If they were concerned about conservation, they would make wild brook/browns catch and release only. This is nothing more than a push by a special interest group to influence regulation to conform with their own misconceptions. Its against the mission statement of the agency.

Btw, the biggest threats to NJ wild trout is habitat loss and water quality. Those should be addressed.

[AndyS]

Brian Cowden-"NJ Fish & Game Council voted unanimously today to adopt the proposed freshwater fishing regulations. This will give NJ the lead in native brook trout protection hands down in the 17 states where brook trout are native. There was a lot of discussions around barbless hooks which were put forth by angler's demands and not by science, but in the end, that too passed. Good news for all NJ wild trout, and not just our native brookies."

[FASTEDDIE29]

Lololololol!!!!! Happy pluggin’ to all in 2018! These people can kiss my ass!!! Ever see the damage half a nite crawler on a plain hook can do??? Hehehehe!!!����������

[NJSquatch]

another win for the special interest groups...sigh

[Jigman13]

And those fruity cups on gardenstatetrout are ripping njf. They think we're all fish killers. I'm gonna kill every trout I catch now regardless of where it's caught, or put a 7/0 thru it's back and use it for bait...Just to fit their stereotype. Lol

[Paul N Skill]

And those fruity cups on gardenstatetrout are ripping njf. They think we're all fish killers. I'm gonna kill every trout I catch now regardless of where it's caught, or put a 7/0 thru it's back and use it for bait...Just to fit their stereotype. Lol

That's acting like an adult.

[trouterspace]

And those fruity cups on gardenstatetrout are ripping njf. They think we're all fish killers. I'm gonna kill every trout I catch now regardless of where it's caught, or put a 7/0 thru it's back and use it for bait...Just to fit their stereotype. Lol

Wow. That's brilliant. Way to stick it to the man.👊

[thmyorke1]

"There was a lot of discussions around barbless hooks which were put forth by angler's demands and not by science"

As a new angler, my respect for NJ F+G continues to lessen.

The fact that they had a majority of comments against the regulation and chose to ignore them let's me know that they just don't care about what anglers have to say.

Hopefully F+G enact more rules in the future that make a better difference, like improving water quality, if they're actually worried about their trout populations.

When do the new rules get posted officially?

[Jigman13]

Clearly you guys don't know me. I'm insanely conservation minded. I'm also extremely well educated and mindful of all things political in NJ as a resident, tax payer and fisherman. I wrote that purely out of sarcasm and as a mockery of the unanimous decision they ruled on. It's purely bat shit and clearly driven by special interest. The salt water guys have been taking it on the chin with shitty data and negatively impactful size and creel limits. Now it appears as if it's rearing its ugly head into the sweet water putting forth regs such as these. Quite a few members here fish these trout waters sans fly gear. They're some of the most conservation minded people I've fished with personally. Limiting the tactics they like to use has a negative impact economically on NJ. People will stop buying stamps, will buy less of the lures they prefer which impacts local businesses and may opt to fish out of state altogether. Regs like this are an infection. Untreated, they'll spread and abscess. Further untreated they'll grow worse, leading to the further amputation of what many of us enjoy doing.

If you think gut hooking trout on pinhead sized flies is any safer than a lip hooked fish that crushed a plug you're clearly delusional. It's setting a bad precedent--altering regs and rules based off of the input of very few with special interests and bad data. JDTuna cites habitat loss and pollution as more concerning to wild trout pops in NJ. I think that's where the focus needs to be--not on guys tossing plugs for trout. It's impossible for NJ to have western USA trout waters for MANY reasons stated in this thread. This doesn't address ANY of those reasons.

I'm done acting like an adult and apparently submitting our comments against this ruling was a bullshit tactic for opposition to express our democratic opinions on something that was clearly decided before said comments were likely reviewed.

[FASTEDDIE29]

We have some very well educated anglers here. I think we win the debate easily! Unfortunately the elitists won this battle!:confused:

[Chrisper4694]

Every real angler here needs to understand that this isn't about the trout AT ALL! These guys have been on the bitch wagon ever since they took away the ridiculously unfair and prejudice 'fly fishing only' sections of rivers and opened them to all anglers.

These regs (barbless, 4 hook points) are for one purpose and one purpose ONLY...to keep non-fly fisherman out of these spots, that they falsely believe is their right above everyone else's. They're hoping real anglers won't take the time to modify their lures to meet the new regulations and, instead, will just go fishing elsewhere. It's one step backwards, towards fly fishing only sections of river.

What we need to do now is send a message that basically says FU because that's the only card we have now to play. I urge everyone to fish these sections of wild trout waters, that the fly fishing elitist they think they have more of a right to than you, as often as possible.

I personally, will show no common courtesy to any fly fisherman i come across, and will fish right through their little drift spots as i efficiently trout fish with my plugs.

I also want to point out that roughly 75% of the wild trout my friends and I catch are OUTSIDE of the designated wild trout waters inaccurately identified by the state....which means I can legally use unmodified plugs AND keep 6 wild trout at only 9 inches!!!! And the other 25% of the fish are still not even in fully catch and release sections...i can eat 1 beautiful 15" wild brown trout every time i go fishing from these spots!!!

And they want you to believe this is for trout protection...the facts are right here, they must think we're stupid. These regulations barely effect my trout fishing habits, but i sure as hell won't be sitting back letting them get away with this.

I'm with Jigman, since i can legally keep 6 wild trout at 9", I guess i'll just fish all their spots out from the boundary lines before they become fly fishing only again...and then i'll grab my fly fishing stuff and keep catching all their fish, just cause i'm a vindictive prick :)