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  #21  
Old 09-07-2010, 11:38 AM
CaptTB CaptTB is offline
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Default Re: Is it just me...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bunker dunker
i love the "goverment won't get a dime" thing.they get a cut on everything and
unless you are gonna follow that money yourself{and please don't show me on
paper because print don't mean sh*t.its just another tax.
Wrong. I love how you add the "don't show me on paper" so no matter what any says or shows you your fantasy conspiracy theory can remain intact.

If you automatically refuse to see or hear or read any evidence to the contrary then you can never be wrong and no one can ever burst your bubble.

The simple fact is that the law does not even allow them to receive any of the money. Unless the law is changed that cannot change. So, for at least the moment you are 100% incorrect.
  #22  
Old 09-07-2010, 11:48 AM
CaptTB CaptTB is offline
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Default Re: Is it just me...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by captbogan
.... If $$ can extend a fluke season why not give the average rec fisherman a chance ..let say a research stamp for $30 for 3 weeks??
Please Bob, you know the answer to that. You have been involved in this long enough to know that it is a specific amount of pounds that must be accounted for to the pound. Every vessel must call in, have certified scales, etc. etc. Once the pounds are caught it is done or when 1/1/11 comes it is done regardless of how many pounds were caught.

You know from past experience that when we have tried to do things differently with regulations enforcement is always a major stumbling block.

In this case, exactly how are they supposed to enforce potentially thousands of boats catching these pounds? You cannot do it like MRFSS does the recreational harvest, this is commercial and recreational pounds and must be calculated to the pound.

Quote:
This is what I am talking about. "It's a trap", as someone else put it.

Willing to put up $30 for 3 extra weeks? Wait till the bean counters get wind of that. Holy crap! a new way to shake down the public!
Yawn, another conspiracy theory that have been around for a decade and yet has NEVER come true. A) you do not have to buy it, B) it will simply be caught commercially as it has been for the past decade, C) the idea of catch shares was around long before the RSA program.

Nice try, but not even close.

Quote:
Tony, the govt isn't getting any $ now but once they see we are willing to pay to fish....! Again, I do not blame any who paid --but this isn't good. I've been going to fisheries meeting since the 80s. I remember the first time someone suggested a 17 inch fluke and the public went nuts --ready to tear the building down. But just 10 years later we stuck with an 18" fluke --and we are lucky compared to NY.
Yeah Bob, I was there too remember? I was in Philly when they first instituted the 10 fish bluefish limit and have been going ever since.

If the gov't could get $$ they certainly would. Fortunately as a result of the efforts of many people over the years, they currently cannot. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. That means we keep our eyes open and stop the things from happening or change what happened.

It does not mean we stick our heads in the sand and do nothing so nothing else can happen.

If we are all so afraid of what "might" happen then sell your friggin boat and go hide in a closet somewhere. That way, you will never have to worry about someone trying to change the law so they can charge you and you won't have to fight to keep it from happening.

Tghe simple fact of the matter is this is NOT NEW. Do you think the gov't hasn't figured out over the past decade that if they could charge they would?

Do you think it just occurred to them this week?

I notice you did not comment on the fact about the slot limit study done on your very boat (and which you received money for by the way) and the other studies that were bought and paid for with RSA $$.

See, if we leave the benefits and science out of it then it sounds scarier
  #23  
Old 09-07-2010, 11:51 AM
bunker dunker bunker dunker is offline
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Default Re: Is it just me...?

that is just the way i see it.this state is broke and they will do everything they can to get money.i do belive what people say or wright as long as its from the right people.i don't mean to offend,its just that our goverment lets to much ILLEGAL this go on and come in to this country.we have had poor eco
times and no one ever tried for a sw licence.
  #24  
Old 09-07-2010, 11:54 AM
CaptTB CaptTB is offline
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Default Re: Is it just me...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonDevin
I wonder if the program didn't exist, would there be a larger poundage allocated to all? If not, then what happened is that the total available catch is reduced to allow for this program. That's a tax in my book, no matter how you feel about how those funds are used.

Then again, I find this all very confusing and may be completely wrong in what I just wrote.
As I said previously, it would add a couple days to our season, depending on when you added it. It is 3% of the TAL, taken off the top (sorry, but I have already explained this several times) before any allocation.

And, it is not 3%, it is NO MORE THAN 3%. It has been less. Any unused or unallocated amount goes back into the TAL, as has happened before also.

That is why I said if people do not want the research to be funded then go to the MAFMC meeting and tell them you want your lousy three more days of fishing and I'll stop wasting my time fighting for all this shit.

The simple fact of the matter is that the fishermen, not the government, worked with the MAFMC to come up with a way to fund science and research that would otherwise not get done. Since we only have fish to work with, we used fish (I say 'we', I did not create this program)

Someone made the intelligent post more than once that "it is all about money" or something to that effect.

Well duh! of course it is about money. What else do you think pays for the research? Collectively commercial and recreational fishermen got together and took a small portion of the allowable harvest each year and agreed to have it auctioned off. Those buying it would have the potential for a bonus (that is assuming they can get more money than they paid for it...ask PF how that worked one year for him) and all the money would fund research that no money existed for.

As proud as I am to have been involved with SSFFF and all we have accomplished, do you realize that the three years of painstaking work we all did and the HUGE investment in time and personal financial loss taken by all of us involved raised less money in three years than one fraction of one year of the RSA program raises?

And guess what, it all goes to the research regardless of what the paranoid might believe.

Last edited by CaptTB; 09-07-2010 at 12:00 PM..
  #25  
Old 09-07-2010, 12:01 PM
CaptTB CaptTB is offline
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Default Re: Is it just me...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bunker dunker
that is just the way i see it.this state is broke and they will do everything they can to get money.i do belive what people say or wright as long as its from the right people.i don't mean to offend,its just that our goverment lets to much ILLEGAL this go on and come in to this country.we have had poor eco
times and no one ever tried for a sw licence.
The state? The state does not even have anything to do with this program!!

Have you even read anything that was posted?
  #26  
Old 09-07-2010, 12:17 PM
bunker dunker bunker dunker is offline
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Default Re: Is it just me...?

as i said before,thats the way i see it.as for state or country,their both broke.
and you can't tell me that if we{state or country} didn't spend so much on
the wrong things that we would even be having this conversation.
  #27  
Old 09-07-2010, 12:28 PM
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missbelmar missbelmar is offline
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Default Re: Is it just me...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptTB
Please Bob, you know the answer to that. You have been involved in this long enough to know that it is a specific amount of pounds that must be accounted for to the pound. Every vessel must call in, have certified scales, etc. etc. Once the pounds are caught it is done or when 1/1/11 comes it is done regardless of how many pounds were caught.

You know from past experience that when we have tried to do things differently with regulations enforcement is always a major stumbling block.

In this case, exactly how are they supposed to enforce potentially thousands of boats catching these pounds? You cannot do it like MRFSS does the recreational harvest, this is commercial and recreational pounds and must be calculated to the pound.


Yawn, another conspiracy theory that have been around for a decade and yet has NEVER come true. A) you do not have to buy it, B) it will simply be caught commercially as it has been for the past decade, C) the idea of catch shares was around long before the RSA program.

Nice try, but not even close.


Yeah Bob, I was there too remember? I was in Philly when they first instituted the 10 fish bluefish limit and have been going ever since.

If the gov't could get $$ they certainly would. Fortunately as a result of the efforts of many people over the years, they currently cannot. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. That means we keep our eyes open and stop the things from happening or change what happened.

It does not mean we stick our heads in the sand and do nothing so nothing else can happen.

If we are all so afraid of what "might" happen then sell your friggin boat and go hide in a closet somewhere. That way, you will never have to worry about someone trying to change the law so they can charge you and you won't have to fight to keep it from happening.

Tghe simple fact of the matter is this is NOT NEW. Do you think the gov't hasn't figured out over the past decade that if they could charge they would?

Do you think it just occurred to them this week?

I notice you did not comment on the fact about the slot limit study done on your very boat (and which you received money for by the way) and the other studies that were bought and paid for with RSA $$.

See, if we leave the benefits and science out of it then it sounds scarier

Actually Tony what alot of fishermen dont realize is alot of RSA programs are "Goverment Funded" Yes free. It doesnt come easy you have to do a little digging , some Googling and some time invested if you want to start an organization to be funded for a new program .If someone has the initiative they could try to start a new Funded Program or Piggy back off of someone or research center who already has a Grant . I'm not gonna get into it here seeing that the voice of reason & logic has been taken over by those who are burnt over the current system and those who believe Hoffa is still buried under Giant stadium.


I know it must get tiring Tony .
See Ya Around Town

Jimmy
  #28  
Old 09-07-2010, 12:48 PM
CaptTB CaptTB is offline
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Default Re: Is it just me...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by missbelmar
Actually Tony what alot of fishermen dont realize is alot of RSA programs are "Goverment Funded" Yes free. It doesnt come easy you have to do a little digging , some Googling and some time invested if you want to start an organization to be funded for a new program .If someone has the initiative they could try to start a new Funded Program or Piggy back off of someone or research center who already has a Grant . I'm not gonna get into it here seeing that the voice of reason & logic has been taken over by those who are burnt over the current system and those who believe Hoffa is still buried under Giant stadium.


I know it must get tiring Tony .
See Ya Around Town

Jimmy
I appreciate it Jim. I did not even bother going into any more detail because the naysayers will find some excuse not to believe it anyway!
  #29  
Old 09-07-2010, 12:52 PM
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Ol Pedro Ol Pedro is offline
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Default Re: Is it just me...?

Tony , I'm glad that you are on our side . I'm just an old man on his way out and I don't claim to know a lot but we are on the same team here. I don't know any Bogans that haven't stepped up and fought for Boat Owners and Fishermens Rights . I can't blame Bob for being suspicious as I am too . Thank you for the insight but I'll stand with caution . Now since I'm the designated thread killer lets bury this one .
  #30  
Old 09-07-2010, 12:55 PM
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JonDevin JonDevin is offline
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Default Re: Is it just me...?

I guess my ultimate gripe is that money has to move from me to someone else to prove that it's ok for me to fish. It just sucks, and if it's necessary, then I'd like to move that money myself by donating directly to programs like SSFFF and others.

Imagine if everything worked that way. For example, let's say the government decided that there was not enough oil, so they put a limit on how much oil we could consume. But then let's say we beileved there was enough oil. So an organization pops up to prove to the government that there's enough oil. But they need funding, so they offer bus and trucking companies the ability to purchase additional oil and then use the proceeds to fund their program.

I dunno, it all just seems crazy.

But I do get that it is how it is, and that not enough people will pony up funds to support themselves, and the bottom line is we need to fund data.... because without the data, we don't have a solid argument.

Thanks CaptTB for your hard work and input.
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