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  #11  
Old 01-23-2012, 12:31 AM
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VdubFishinJC VdubFishinJC is offline
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Default Re: Fishermans Rally; Wash DC March 21, 2012

idk.. fighing a loosing battle... everyone needs to really rally together this time!!!
  #12  
Old 01-23-2012, 10:24 AM
HutchJr HutchJr is offline
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Default Re: Fishermans Rally; Wash DC March 21, 2012

>> I'm probably going to get some flack for this responce but think about it before you comment its time to say its "us against the commercial guys" think of all the money and jobs recreational fisherman bring to N.J.!!

Jigman, thatís precisely the direction the California sportfishing community took in the 90ís when environmental groups assured a handful of leaders that no-take, no human access, marine reserves were going to shut out the commercial guy but protect the recreational fishermen. So, these leaders support the enviroís in their efforts to shut down the ocean, only to find later that they were excluded from using those areas as well.

Read this for more on that - http://www.thefreelibrary.com/FL,+CA.....-a0269433745

Itís a leap year, and for 365 days out of 2012, we can disagree with the commercial sector on allocation of fish and gear use Ė it makes us all more powerful in the fight against anti-fishing groups if we can use that extra day of the year to unite in opposition to the real enemy, those who would prefer to kick us all off the ocean!

The ongoing debate in New Jersey about pots on the artificial reefs has become a political football on gear, which could easily be settled by the Department of Environmental Protection and the Division of Fish and Wildlife by making a regulation to eliminate pots. The state originally invited commercial pots on at the inception of the program, they allowed the issue to grow exponentially over a couple of decades, and now they have no idea how many pots are actually even deployed in coastal waters. Itís a travesty and we need to continue to fight this restrictive gear issue. But thatís a gear issue, one small part of a much bigger issue!

In terms of reduction boats, they no longer operate in state waters. This is a destructive process taking place by Virginia boats operating in Virginia waters and outside of the 3 mile limit in federal waters, but I donít see it (personally) as a commercial problem but instead a corporate, ethical issue. Omega Protein is a publicly traded company that is truly raping our seas, and I hope all anglers have ensured that none of their own personal money is tied up in this disgusting practice. But this is one part of a bigger allocation argument, where reduction boats from Virginia control probably 90% of the annual bunker harvest where local bait boats are fishing on the rest.

Now, letís get beyond the gear and allocation issue for a moment, and understand that the rally in DC is about open access, under the law, to rebuilding and often times rebuilt coastal fish stocks. If you make the commercial FISHERMAN an enemy on everything, you will lessen your ability to fight a real enemy which includes (A) radical anti-fishing organizations, and (B) corporate behemoths would enjoy seeing a privatized public resource to allocate through public auction and retail sale.

On March 20 and March 22, we can go back to beating the crap out of one another over the bunker harvest, the unfair allocation of fluke and scup, and the issue of denied access at our local snags due to the proliferation of commercial fish pots (most probably unlicensed and unregulated), but on the extra day of the year and the first day of spring, I believe that uniting under the one common bond we both have as FISHERMEN is the ideal upon which we should remain focused.

In stealing the words of pastor/activist Martin Niemoller who wrote about the heavy burden of guilt felt by many Germans after the holocaust, allow me to offer thisÖ

When they came for the commercial fishermen,
I remained silent;
I was not a commercial fisherman.

When they locked up shares of red snapper,
I remained silent;
I was not a red snapper fisherman.

When they went after the party & charter boat operators,
I did not speak out;
I was not a for-hire captain.

When they closed off Pacific waters, Stellwagen & Biscayne Bay,
I remained silent;
I didnít fish there.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out


On 3-21-12, we're all fishermen...united we can stand, divided we fall.
  #13  
Old 01-23-2012, 11:42 AM
sportfishingusa sportfishingusa is offline
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Default Re: Fishermans Rally; Wash DC March 21, 2012

How is occupy wall street and occupy every single city going? absolutely no where.


Sorry to say, i feel strongly for everyone in the position to take it in the rear end when the government and the crooked MSA continues to crunch down on your businesses, trust me, i have a heart and i really do give a shit about it, the problem i see, is that no matter who you talk to, no matter how much you do or donate, you seem to take 4 steps foward and then just jump 6 steps back.

I have personally read and looked over all newsletters, all the associations we are asked to throw money into ,the sad thing i continue to not see is any results.

Everything is based on science and the amount of harvest, until we can get flawless science (which we will probably never see) we are not going to see any change.

I also get a crap load of nasty pms and remarks for my outlook on things, but from my perspective (and my opinion) making this march is not going to accomplish very much, if it does i give mad props to everyone who does it, but just like last year nothing has changed. People continue to dump tons of money in different associations (not throwing names because i dont want to hear the bitchy crying), but it has also seen no results.

maybe i just turn my head and look the other way for my own reasons, but until someone can show me something that has actually been accomplished, then i will keep my quarters in my pocket, if you can show me a few steps in the right direction, prove to me that some of this donating and walking, and giving money to all different places is making a difference, then i will become a big contributor, but until then i just can not justify it by any means.
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  #14  
Old 01-23-2012, 11:59 AM
CaptTB CaptTB is offline
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Default Re: Fishermans Rally; Wash DC March 21, 2012

Hutch, thanks for taking the time to point out the facts and the logic that is completely missing from jigman's comments.

I respect his right to both have and express his opinions, as I respect everyone's right to have and express an opinion. That does not, however, make his comments any less ignorant of the facts and the real situation.

Having dealt with fisheries issues all of my adult life (and part of my youth) and knowing that his excuses for not getting more involved are just that, EXCUSES, makes me say to him what I say to others that post equally nonsensical comments.

Whatever let's you sleep at night knowing you did nothing to fix the problem.

No more pleasantries, the time for ignorance has passed my friends (and non-friends as well)

Some will say "you catch more flies with sugar..." "don't alienate people from the cause...." Yadda yadda yadda. I cannot alienate someone that is NOT interested in getting involved and is NOT going to help me solve the problem we ALL are facing. One need only read the comments about "pots off the reefs" and "cape may nj" to realize that HE JUST DOES NOT GET IT!

What is the point in arguing over who kills what and who catches what and where we can fish and what our size limit is and "recreational only" nonsense IF WE CANNOT FISH AT ALL???

Jigman, please understand, IF THE LAWS STOP US FROM FISHING AT ALL IT DOES NOT MATTER IF YOU ARE A RECREATIONAL OR A COMMERCIAL FISHERMAN!!!

No fishing allowed means NO FISHING ALLOWED.

We all know (or should) that not every commercial fisherman "rapes" the ocean or "catches all the fish"or any other such nonsense. If someone truly believes that then they should not bother being at the rally for sure.

However, the reality of the situation is that NO ONE will be able to fish for the species they love, be it stripers or fluke or sea bass or porgies or whatever, if something is not done about the system that is currently in place to manage our fisheries.
Plain and simple.

Jigman, and any others who believe as he does, we need your help. You need your help. You need our help. Only together will we ALL be able to keep fishing.

You want to improve the fisheries? So do I. However, what will be the point in improving our fisheries if we cannot fish for them?

Don't believe that "once the stocks are recovered my grandkids will be able to fish.

BULLSHIT! The gov't already concedes that Fluke, Sea Bass and Porgies are rebuilt. Guess how many of those fisheries are currently open.......NONE!!!

Cure the disease, don't just treat the symptoms.

No point in arguing over how you like your eggs cooked if the government is going to take away all the eggs.
  #15  
Old 01-23-2012, 12:09 PM
CaptTB CaptTB is offline
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Default Re: Fishermans Rally; Wash DC March 21, 2012

SportfishingUSA........ I beg to differ.

SSFFF proved that the gov'ts science was WRONG on Fluke. The ONLY reason FLuke is rebuilt NOW according to the gov't is because OUR SCIENCE PROVED IT WAS CLOSER TO REBUILT THAN THEY THOUGHT IT WAS.

Otherwise, FLuke would be over 20 percent further from the rebuilding target than it is right now.

But guess what? Fluke is still CLOSED, or closed early, with assinine size limits and ridiculously short seasons because THE SYSTEM THAT MANAGES THE FISHERY IS FLAWED AS MUCH AS THE SCIENCE!!

Science is vital, no question. But, we have reached a stage where all the science in the world cannot override the LAW.

The system has reached a stage where it STIFLES THE TRUTH. It makes the facts IRRELEVANT. One need look no further than fluke, sea bass and porgies. Fisheries rebuilt ABOVE the target, but all closed.

Why? Because the SYSTEM says that is what is needed.

Cure the disease, don't just treat the symptoms. Science has not become less important than it was when SSFFF started what it started, it is still just as important today as it was yesterday.

The difference now is that fixing the system has become as or more important than fixing the science if we wish to continue fishing! The failure of the fisheries management system is now nearly complete in that we can have all the fish in the world but not be able to catch any of them. We were allowed to catch MILLIONS more fish (yes, MILLIONS) when the stocks were considered to be rebuilding, and still allow the stock to rebuild, than we can now that they are rebuilt!

Until the system is fixed all the science in the world will not stop us from being shut out of the very fisheries we helped rebuild, commercial and recreational fishermen alike.

Last edited by CaptTB; 01-23-2012 at 12:34 PM..
  #16  
Old 01-23-2012, 12:25 PM
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Ol Pedro Ol Pedro is offline
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Default Re: Fishermans Rally; Wash DC March 21, 2012

[QUOTE=sportfishingusa]How is occupy wall street and occupy every single city going? absolutely no where.


Sportie , we disagreed on the last March . That is how we met . The occupy folks don't have an agenda . We do . If we don't try we have already failed . I can't blame you for holding out but if you wait too long then there is nothing left . One day of your time hanging out with Fellow Fishermen/Women . Is that too much to ask ? If you have no BFT trip this year why not show up ? Ask Kill and the rest of the boys to show up too . You are a Big Boy and can make your own decisions . I'm just saying that if you don't lock it up soon he'll spit it .
  #17  
Old 01-23-2012, 12:44 PM
bunker dunker bunker dunker is offline
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Default Re: Fishermans Rally; Wash DC March 21, 2012

i don't understand wht we have to fight for what is already ours.i give a big thanks to all who are working and fighting.it seems to me that this war has to many fronts.1st its fluke,then sea bass now haddock were dose it end
  #18  
Old 01-23-2012, 01:25 PM
Flukinator Flukinator is offline
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Default Re: Fishermans Rally; Wash DC March 21, 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by bunker dunker
i don't understand wht we have to fight for what is already ours.i give a big thanks to all who are working and fighting.it seems to me that this war has to many fronts.1st its fluke,then sea bass now haddock were dose it end
That's why Capt TB and Hutch are telling you this isn't about a lot of different little fronts. Look past them. Some of you guys aren't seeing the forest for the trees. This is about giving fishermen a voice in our nation's capital. Our collective best interests (ALL FISHING) are being marginalized and beaten down by idiots in charge of making the regs and rules, introductions of catch shares, etc. All fishermen, rec. and comm., have a dog in this fight. I'm gonna go this year, too.

I'll say this: It shouldn't have to come to this, but perhaps if party and charter boat captains/owners did something like handed out a coupon or offered some sort of small one-time discount (or any kind of deal) to those who march with them, we might get a few more guys on board with this. Some guys really can't go for one reason or another, others can easily go, some probably can but are stubborn/mislead/ignorant, and still others (like myself) are willing to sacrifice one day off from work to show support the hobby that's been a major part of my life for all of my 27 years on this planet. I personally don't feel I'm owed anything for this, but I think it'd be a fairly easy way to get some support from guys who are "on the fence" by showing the ones who do sacrifice their day for the cause some appreciation for their efforts. A major complaint from guys who marched last time has been "nothing's been done! I got nothing out of it!"

I absolutely understand captains maybe not being able to do this, and the idea that this SHOULDN'T be necessary, but it's just an idea, and I'm just trying to help.
  #19  
Old 01-23-2012, 02:09 PM
sportfishingusa sportfishingusa is offline
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Default Re: Fishermans Rally; Wash DC March 21, 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptTB
SportfishingUSA........ I beg to differ.

SSFFF proved that the gov'ts science was WRONG on Fluke. The ONLY reason FLuke is rebuilt NOW according to the gov't is because OUR SCIENCE PROVED IT WAS CLOSER TO REBUILT THAN THEY THOUGHT IT WAS.

Otherwise, FLuke would be over 20 percent further from the rebuilding target than it is right now.

But guess what? Fluke is still CLOSED, or closed early, with assinine size limits and ridiculously short seasons because THE SYSTEM THAT MANAGES THE FISHERY IS FLAWED AS MUCH AS THE SCIENCE!!

Science is vital, no question. But, we have reached a stage where all the science in the world cannot override the LAW.

The system has reached a stage where it STIFLES THE TRUTH. It makes the facts IRRELEVANT. One need look no further than fluke, sea bass and porgies. Fisheries rebuilt ABOVE the target, but all closed.

Why? Because the SYSTEM says that is what is needed.

Cure the disease, don't just treat the symptoms. Science has not become less important than it was when SSFFF started what it started, it is still just as important today as it was yesterday.

The difference now is that fixing the system has become as or more important than fixing the science if we wish to continue fishing! The failure of the fisheries management system is now nearly complete in that we can have all the fish in the world but not be able to catch any of them. We were allowed to catch MILLIONS more fish (yes, MILLIONS) when the stocks were considered to be rebuilding, and still allow the stock to rebuild, than we can now that they are rebuilt!

Until the system is fixed all the science in the world will not stop us from being shut out of the very fisheries we helped rebuild, commercial and recreational fishermen alike.

iI am with you and realize this, everything you say is 100% correct, but is going to washington and walking in circles with signs and speaking in front of the house really going to do anything other then put a bunch of people in one spot?

If you can give me 10 high powered elected officials that could promise results, i would be willing to provide my money to that sector.


SSFFF has been good, i cant disagree with that, they did make noise and they did get something good and some results, but thats the only real results i have seen.
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  #20  
Old 01-23-2012, 02:12 PM
sportfishingusa sportfishingusa is offline
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Default Re: Fishermans Rally; Wash DC March 21, 2012

[QUOTE=Ol Pedro]
Quote:
Originally Posted by sportfishingusa
How is occupy wall street and occupy every single city going? absolutely no where.


Sportie , we disagreed on the last March . That is how we met . The occupy folks don't have an agenda . We do . If we don't try we have already failed . I can't blame you for holding out but if you wait too long then there is nothing left . One day of your time hanging out with Fellow Fishermen/Women . Is that too much to ask ? If you have no BFT trip this year why not show up ? Ask Kill and the rest of the boys to show up too . You are a Big Boy and can make your own decisions . I'm just saying that if you don't lock it up soon he'll spit it .

You right pedro, but i think there are bigger and better things that someone could figure out to do other then spend the day marching. I dont have the ability to take the day and go down there, to many other things on my plate right now, i commend the guys that take that time and fight for their rights, but i just think that it is a losing battle and if the battle is to be fought or won, there is much for realistic routes to be taken and some are already in action, but there has to be someone with some better ideas ( i know i dont have any because i am not very saavy when it comes to politics and the other nonsense) but guys like tony bogan, adam (karen ann) and people like this, they need a good plan and the support in the right areas, but i dont know how it would get done or when it would get done.
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