Small Boat - Hudson Canyon
 

I am looking to try my 1st canyon run this Friday in my small boat. I have been to the Chicken and Glory several times. I was caught at the glory once and took a beating on the ride in.

24 ft center with twin 135 Optis.
radar
C120 nav
handheld nav backup
life raft
offshore jackets
2 radios + a handheld
sat phone
210 gallons fuel
7 rods 50s & 30s
I plan on trolling daisys and spreaders
I plan on leaving Monmonth Cove around 3:30 A.M. with a planed return around 6:00 P.M.
any advice? Numbers? what to troll and where? What com channel out there?
Thanks all

Bryan

Re: Small Boat - Hudson Canyon
 

Good Luck man, If I had twins on my boat and the fuel range I would be going too.

Re: Small Boat - Hudson Canyon
 

I wouldn't go that far in a 24 ft'r but, thats your choice.

Anything can happen and in a boat of that size you are going to be exposed.

Good Luck.

Re: Small Boat - Hudson Canyon
 

That's ballsy. Good luck, and stay safe. Didn't those couple NFL guys die in Florida that were in a boat that small and tried to go off shore with it?

Re: Small Boat - Hudson Canyon
 

I would add an epirb to your arsenal. Also, several gallons of fresh water tied to a float. File a float plan and leave it with someone reliable. You can usually hear some chatter on 65 - God forbid you have to put out a mayday put it out on the channel you have been talking on. If you put it out on 16 it may not be heard. If you have a boat to run out with it always makes you feel safer. It looks like a nice 3 day window so you should be good. Watch the weather closely and if it looks iffy don't go. Best of luck and catch em up.

Re: Small Boat - Hudson Canyon
 

I would bring more gas.
Then again, I wouldn't go out to the canyon ina 24' boat. to begin with.

For what it will cost you in gas and bait, just go on a 24 hour charter on a 50+' and have a good time.

Re: Small Boat - Hudson Canyon
 

Anything can happen in a boat of any size. if he has the necessary safety equipment and the fuel range plus a 1/3 spare the size of the boat doesn't mean he will not make it back. Is your cockpit self-bailing? He has two engines, Yes he might take it a little harder on the knees, but his boat will not sink any quicker than the big sportfisher's. In fact his might not even sink at all if it is a model with enought floatation foam. It seems like the guy has his plan in place and has more than a lot of the bigger boats have as far as safety gear. I know a lot of boats that run to the poor mans etc from OCMD that are his size or smaller multiple times a season without a single problem.

Just go over your engines and make sure you have as many spare parts as you can replace easily on the water.

A lot of good suggestions I would bring plenty of water etc, but word of advice just freeze some sealed jugs of water or bottles and you can use that for ice for your drinks and then as they thaw they can be reserve water.

Good luck and go catch them up. If you ever need another crazy F to run with you let me know.

Re: Small Boat - Hudson Canyon
 

I would try and borrow at least 2 more 50 setups. If you run across a pack of bigeye those 30's might be toast and if you get spooled your down a rod or two. That plus an epirb and your all set. I plan to do at least one hudson overnighter out there in my 26' this year too! good luck.

Re: Small Boat - Hudson Canyon
 

All great advice. Even boats running out to the Mudhole and Glory Hole should consider getting Epirbs. There's no such thing as too much safety equipment and reserve water, etc. Good luck! Let us know how you do! I'm looking for a ride out there on a bigger center console this weekend.

Also, have at least one or 2 skirted ballyhoo in the spread.

Re: Small Boat - Hudson Canyon
 

no offense with this comment, but if you plan to run to the hudson and troll just spreaders and daisy chains you might want to re think your aresenal..

Although a ton of fish come on those lures you talk about, you are going to want to add some others to your spread and not just spreader bars all around.


The fish you are looking to catch are not walking around the 100 line. Some guys have been fishing in 500-1000 fathoms and i dont think your boat is going to hold enough fuel to get you there.


24ft boat and 200 gallons of fuel, if you get good mileage on the boat and say you get 1.5 miles to the gallon, you are getting 300 miles to the tank.

You are looking from up in MI, The hook, 80+ miles to the edge, plus another 10 or so depending on what water you want to take on. you run to the 100square your talking even further.

In my opinion, you either need to charter a boat, find a friend with a bigger boat, or just stay at the dock and enjoy the reports.

We have gone out and started trolling in a lake like setting, all of a sudden the wind comes up and we are getting blasted 30-40kts in our face. granted it doesnt happen all the time and depends on the weather being called for, but you NEVER KNOW out there.. it is you and mother nature, so being an owner of a 24 center console with twin 150 and knowing what i have been through on smaller boats as well as 50-100fters and it is not a place to yahoo around and thats why any experiences captain looks for great weather windows.

Re: Small Boat - Hudson Canyon
 

and if your leaving in the dark from that area of monmouth cove, you better fine tune that radar, because plowing through those mudhole pots in the dark is nothing but a pain in the bizzles!! almost easier to run around them.. but if you are running through and across make sure you have it all set up and run that baby at 1/8 mile to make sure you can pick something up.

I would also recommend a good pair of nightvision binoculars.. going through that area in the dark is a complete crap shoot!

Re: Small Boat - Hudson Canyon
 

Bryan???? If you are who I think you are, give me a call and I can lend you what you need.

Sport makes a great point about the distance needed to get to the fish. 100 sq is adding on another 24 miles to your trip... not to mention trolling all day.

Keep in mind that it can blow up quickly out there and you WILL have a rough ride home if it does. Even if it doesn't, on your way home in the afternoon.... the last 20 miles to the beach can get pretty snotty.

I would make sure to run with a buddy boat at least the first time you try, to make sure of your range. I am scheduled to do a canyon run on 7/11 and am going to try to get out there one time before that...just not this weekend :mad:

Ted

Re: Small Boat - Hudson Canyon
 

If you take a 10' wave over the bow, it fills your cockpit and you lose power, its really not going to help you if your cockpit is self bailing. You are suddenly in extremis.

Re: Small Boat - Hudson Canyon
 

Why not just tell hime HE WILL DIE!

Gez all this crap can go wrong in the Mudhole too. And freak 40 knot summer storms(aka squalls) can happen in Raritan Bay too.

Enough gas/2 stoke oil. And an EPIRB(VHF's are out of range w/o a relay) are all great advice. And Sea Tow insurance in case.

Then have enough ice, water, enough bait, spare parts for every single piece of the engine, spare props, clothes for all four seasons, scuba mask, turkey for thanksgiving dinner, spare bottom paint, christmas cards, etc. COMMON SENSE.

You've fished offshore and should already know 99% of this right?

Sorry NOT to piss on your parade.

Re: Small Boat - Hudson Canyon
 

Buddy boat is the best thing to have, ask around.

Add to the list:

nurf football (plugs holes well)
use some frozen water bottles as ice (could drink if needed)
Chemical stick lights (fishing and if you need em underwater)
Mask
Bolt Cutters (ever suck a trap into a prop?)
Beer

Re: Small Boat - Hudson Canyon
 

So the Gist of what your trying to say? lol

Re: Small Boat - Hudson Canyon
 

Bryan,

It's Tom on the S.T. Barb (26 Grady Express) it looks like you will be running in the dark a bit, when you get about 2 miles outside of SH channel you will run through an area loaded with fish pots that have low lying markers and rarely show up on anything under an open array radar so run with caution. The area should be shown on your chart plotter if its fairly up to date... its between the BA and SH channel. Other then that you will not run into any obstacles until you can see again so it should be a safe ride, I've done plenty of day troll trips but rare do anymore, we overnight instead, a lot more fish time, especially since most of the better tuna bite has been early AM right now. Have 2 guys by the helm, one running the boat the other watching radar for you, it makes life a lot easier and keeps you from taking your eyes off whats ahead. As far as Fri, its the worst day out of the weekend so far, its runnable but I've seen days with 10-15 2-4 become a lot worse so keep any eye on the report and ALWAYS check the weather bouy before departing. Watch the swell height and period as well as the wind wave height and period, a swell under 9-10 seconds can make your run really crappy if its the wrong direction so watch that carefully. You want your first trip to the edge to be safe and successful. We were planning to run the hudson Fri/Sat for an overnighter... tile fish and troll 2-3 hrs Fri pm drift for a sword over night and troll til noon Sat but we opted against it, weather report from my experience has too many inconsistencies and keeps changing and the reports are mixed...water at the Hudson was greenish in many areas the last I heard, but that can change very fast. The 100 sq was giving up some big eyes earlier in the week, but hard to target on a smaller boat and I would assume there will be a fleet on them if they stay there. The tip isnt a bad place to start, or the bombs, especially for smaller boats that cannot always run the 100sq right away. The W wall has given up scattered shots at yft and typically is a good place to troll. The elbows can be productive as well as the 050/150 area. Typically I troll the W wall and chunk the E unless I see something worthwhile on the opposite side like a temp break or change in water quality. The W wall also give you a chance to tilefish and save the day before running home.
As far as lures, rainbow green machines and green machines are giving up nice catches and running some ballyhoo is good as well. Typically we pull 3 bars in our spread, a bird with a green machine behind it, a jet somewhere in the spread, a feather somewhere in the spread and a daisy chain with a ballyhoo behind it and another ballyhoo. We mix up the colors a bit until we find what works. As far as ballyhoo, I prefer moldcraft lil hookers or ilander trackers blue/white or pink/white are good, early and late i like black/purple or black/ green colors. Try and keep the spread looking uniform as far as spreader bars go, it does make a difference when the fish are finicky. If you do get into an area with big eyes around, bring the spread in tight to the boat to increase your chances of hooking up.

As far as making the run, set fuel numbers in your head, whats the MAX your willing to burn on the way out...if you hit this number nomatter where you are you start trolling unless your willing to cut into your troll time. I have set numbers for me. I stop running at 80gal, allow 40 for trolling which is 10+hrs of trolling, and 80 for the ride in, this puts me at 200gal with 50 in reserve. You need 1/5 of a tank min as backup incase it gets nasty out there. also, use good judegment, if it gets nasty and your burning more then you need to aim for manasquan its closer and running up the beach is a lot safer then being beat up offshore.

As far as running the first time, I always recommend having a buddy boat to run with, not necessarily side by side but leaving similar times and in radio contact in case something goes wrong. I always run out knowing other boats heading to the edge. It also helps for locating fish.
I would highly recommend having an epirb with you guys, its one of the most important things to have when heading offshore. The handheld vhf is good, but you need to have a handheld gps to make it effective in rescue. A life rafts great but it only keeps you afloat and out of the water, it does not notify authorities. Sat phones are nice, but you'd have to call home for help which takes time and slows the process up, an epirb is the only way to be safe, plb's are another alternative which are good but not as good as an epirb, but a lot better then nothing.

Have a safe ride and do not be afraid to cancel the trip if your not comfortable with the sea conditions or if something doesn't feel right. We rushed the first year to get offshore and looking back it wasn't worth risking our lives...all went well and we came home with fish but safety is really important and comes first.

As far as channels offshore, I always use 65, but 68 isnt bad either...it really depends mostly on where the fleet is out of each port seems to have there own channels. Whenever we have a network of boats going out we also designate a go to channel, not that its secretive, but it allows us to talk on a channel with less clutter.

Be safe!!

I will be down Fri gearing the boat up, were going sharking Saturday so I will see how you guys made out. If you have any questions pm me.

Re: Small Boat - Hudson Canyon
 

Cap,

The only thing I have additional is an Epirb...and I'm in the Chicken with my 24' single engine pretty frequently... but that’s only 52 miles...and your adding 30 plus miles to that..The weather window is probably the most important thing as with such a small boat you'd take a beating. As for the comment about the guys in Florida...if they had an Epirb they'd all probably still be alive as it gives out your exact location for the coast guard rescue..In fact from my memory the only thing they had were survival suits and nothing else, not even portable VHF. When are you heading out…I’m leaving Belmar tomorrow for the Chicken…At least you’d have company for most of the ride.

Andrew

Re: Small Boat - Hudson Canyon
 

Actually, if they had cut the anchor line they would prob still be alive.

Re: Small Boat - Hudson Canyon
 

good luck!! I have been out there in a 21ft cc about 3 years ago. It was 4-6s and blowin 15-20, it was not fun, but twe had 5 yellows on the troll and it made the trip well worth it. It is a hard trip with no sleeping area, but still had a good time and would do it again. As long as you have twins you can go because of the back up. But definately be careful and have fun, your time seems to fit the same time we had. Good luck, cathem up.

Re: Small Boat - Hudson Canyon
 

Thank you all for the information. I do have an Epirb on the boat. I also think I can squeeze 228 gallons of fuel if I bring all my tanks. In flat water I manage 3.3 MPG at 24kts. The opti are pretty good on fuel. The weather is everything for my little craft. If I have ant doubts i may try shark at the glory but the water will most likely be the same. but it is closer inshore.

Re: Small Boat - Hudson Canyon
 

Discretion Is The Better Part Of Valor !!!

Re: Small Boat - Hudson Canyon
 

What make 21cc and what size external tanks did you bring?

I own a 21' CC and their is no way it has enough gas to safely make it one way to the canyon from SH.

Re: Small Boat - Hudson Canyon
 

Just do me a favor and remember like most dont, if your worried about fuel, dont worry and dont go!!

There is not only more fuel consumption in a head sea, but also a head wind and side wind and not to mention the current.. when you troll you dont burn much, but turn into the wind and take it on the chin and i bet that 3.3 goes to about .5

Re: Small Boat - Hudson Canyon
 

Yeah,

"That to"...morons didn't want to lose an anchor...can you imagine

Re: Small Boat - Hudson Canyon
 

back up might sound good, but you won't have room for the needed gear for an offshore canyon trip as well as shark trip, I've done it and on my boat its tight and I refuse to do it anymore...its one or the other, and if we cant get in the intended trip as planned we probably shouldn't be going anywhere offshore and should wait until its in reach. Watch the weather, Thursdays report and Sat both got a little worse so that leaves potential for Fri to be worse then forcasted originally, bt then again it could turn back the other way just keep any eye out and be safe and like I said watch the texas tower weather bouy for actual sea conditions, thats always your best report. As soon as the water pushes closer and makes the run more worthwhile I will be making the run to the canyon regularly so if I'm heading out your more then welcome to run along side me, I cruise at 24-26kts depending on conditions so we could keep up fairly well. I also have autopilot so following me will keep you on course a lot easier. Running without ones a nightmare...especially at night...been there done that...never ever again!!

Re: Small Boat - Hudson Canyon
 

21 contenders come standard with 90 and now offer I believe 105.

Re: Small Boat - Hudson Canyon
 

Bryan, I'm on your dock across and down a few boats in the downeaster. With the storms that have been blowing up recently is enough reason alone not to go. If you have satellite weather, it still would be chancy in your boat. If you are running with another boat, then maybe at best. Being 80 - 90 miles off in your boat is very gutsy. I would call the Coast Guard and give them your plan or at least give someone else your info just in case. If you don't have a satellite phone, remember your radio isn't going to be much use that far out in an emergency unless there are other boats monitoring your distress call. Be safe, be smart and good luck if you decide to go. Penn

Re: Small Boat - Hudson Canyon
 

Used to do this on a Mako 25 with twin carbed 140's. Did it quite a few times. Leaving at 3:30 from the dock you will have time to evaluate weather at key times during the trip. If you feel good about night running leave earlier and go slower. Tackle wise bring lots of back-ups. Those big-eyes are nasty and can wipe out several rods/reels in one shot. Seen it first hand ! Bona 4 TUNA :D

Re: Small Boat - Hudson Canyon
 

I would make sure you have a great forecast for a three day window and bring the rosary beads.

Re: Small Boat - Hudson Canyon
 

Pm me if you need 2 guys anytime. Me and my dad have only tilefished before but have the balls to go to the canyon in a 24'. I will let you know if we can go. Always wanted to try tuna.

Re: Small Boat - Hudson Canyon
 

have run to the mud hole 2 dozen times, the glory 3 times and the chicken once, 24' 9'8" beam 3' draft very stable. new crusader classic 320 horse single, only one electronic part on the motor, the fuel pump and i carry a spare. not the fastest boat in the world but crusing at 24 mph without the four barrels open, 150 gallons on board. its doable but not something i would run even out of the mansquan where i am. have run plenty of canyon trips on my uncles 38 topaz and have seen plenty of good and bad weather, the only question is why, i wouldnt even try it, kudos for large balls but take a deep breath and if you have family do yourself a favor, save the money on the fuel and jump on a open boat.

Re: Small Boat - Hudson Canyon
 

Friday's forecast is mint, and you have twin screws. 24 is plenty of boat for a day troll. go fishing dude.

Re: Small Boat - Hudson Canyon
 

Which would MAYBE get you safely one way to the Canyon from MI.

Re: Small Boat - Hudson Canyon
 

You sure about that? 3.0+ mpg in nice weather (yes, you wouldn't ever take a 21 to the canyon regardless but...) 270 miles...

I fished the chicken in it, from the navesink (run all the way around the hook and back) trolled all day, etc. burned 55 gal.

Re: Small Boat - Hudson Canyon
 

Bryan, we used to run my buddy's Mako 20' from Ocean City, Md to the Baltimore and Wilmington canyons 5 or 6 trips/season. This was a single engine boat - he was fairly meticulous in ensuring the engine was perfect running order and we always took up to 20 gallons of extra fuel as well as 10 to 15 gallons of fresh water (preferably frozen). Lots of good advice on this thread including an EPIRB.

The trick was watching the weather and waiting for that day when we were sure there would be no winds greater than 5-10 kts. As long as all those criteria were satisfied, it was smooth sailing.

Good luck, the tuna are only around here for a few months!

There are Old Capt's & Bold Capt's, But Very Few Old & Bold Ones
 

Football Tuna:

As you can see there are 2 very different thoughts about your intended plan; you have received some excellent points from both camps. IMHO, just like a lot of other things in life, there are two sides to every story ... And, the truth is usually somewhere in the middle. ;)

The reason for the dichotomy in opinions is that just like when hiking or hunting, some guys go into the woods in trucks or aboard fancy ATV's loaded with all kinds of gear, supplies and equipment while others head out with only their weapon, a backpack, a tent and their boots. Without any other details, one would expect that the person with the truck or ATV would be the better prepared, since they have more things. However, the truth of the matter is that the knowledge, experience, ability, and skills of the individual in either case is going to be far more important than any items, gadgets, electronic devices, or safety gear when it comes to getting back home safely.

I personally would rather be aboard a small, well-maintained boat with a smart, cautious and experienced Skipper than be aboard a multimillion dollar sportfisher that is being piloted by someone who is reckless, inexperienced or prone to bad judgement. :eek:

There is no doubt that fishing for big fish offshore with a small boat can be a lot of fun. Showing up back at the docks with tunas, mahi, wahoo, sharks, etc. aboard a small boat gives you a sense of pride and accomplishment that you simply can't get aboard a vessel two or more times the size of yours. You also feel much more "in touch" with your surroundings when you are fishing in small boat versus fishing aboard a floating house with motors. However, when/if something unexpectedly turns bad, the fun can quickly be replaced with terror and danger.

I say go if you are supremely confident about your boat, your redundant safety gear, your abilities, and MOST IMPORTANTLY the weather. If any or all of the above have even the slightest bit of uncertainty don't even think about it!

Remember, in the event of an unexpected serious emergency, you may not only be risking the lives of yourself and your crew, but also the lives of any others that may find themselves in the unfortunate position of needing to try to help or rescue you. :(

- Gr8ful


P.S. My brother runs twin Opti 135's on his boat, so I am very familiar with that particular motor's excellent fuel economy. However, you should definitely be more conservative regarding your anticipated fuel burn as on this type of trip, you will likely be carrying more fuel, ice, gear, equipment
(and hopefully fish) than you typically carry. All of this extra weight/drag will significantly increase your fuel burn.

Re: Small Boat - Hudson Canyon- FLORIDA GUYS
 

I read the book(NOT WITHOUT HOPE) by the survivor ( I USE IT IN MY BOATING CLASSES. IT'S A GOLD MINE OF LESSONS). It was a single O/B 20 footer 70 miles off Clearwater Florida in February 2009.

Contrary to popular opinion no one was drunk. There was no EPIRB. There was no time for a MAYDAY. And there was no float plan. Just knew where they fished the week before.

His anchor fouled in 6-7 footers. Capt. was pissed he lost an anchor the prior week. He snugs up the anchor line until it's nearly straight up and down. Ties it to the transom RINGS( the ones on the outside of the boat) and guns the engine hard to rip the anchor free. The anchor stays snagged and going forward hard under heavy power pulls the notched transom under water.

Capt. panics backs off throttle very quickly. The strain still in the fouled anchor line slides the boat's notched transom straight back into a 6 foot roller. Scooping up tons of water in a second or two.

The crew tried to counter balance the swamped boat in 6-7' rollers. Needless to say it flipped in less than 10 seconds. Their boat rode capsized, O/B up for 43 hours before the sole survivor was found. 2 of the 4 on board died in less than 24 hours from hypothermia and salt water ingestion(dementia). The 3rd of the 4 lasted another day. He took off his life jacket and just dove to the bottom killing himself.


A great book to learn A LOT FROM.